186 replies to this topic

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

ApathyZer0, on 16 December 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

Biased polls aren't worth voting in. While I do agree that BAP could use some more versatility I don't necessarily agree that being a hard counter to ECM is the answer.

Every poll is going to be biased in some direction. So you basically said don't vote. I also never said to make it a hard counter. It wouldn't render the ECM entirely useless as the ECM is doing to the BAP. It'd also only affect the 1 guy carrying it, not his entire team.

[Kerosene]

Well gents it is obvious that BAP needs a buff as the game stands. But it is not intended to be the counter to ECM. The counter to ECM is TAG; or at least it should be, the fact that TAG doesn't give the owner of the TAG lock on data (stopping people from sharing that data if your inside the ECM bubble makes sense though) is is somewhat naff and needs to be changed.

As BAP stands in cannon I would argue that BAP should 'detect' all enemy mechs within say 600m regardless of terrain and show them up on the minimap in addition to its current effects. This would not give your team 'targeting data', simply pass on their location. ECM would of course hide these mechs as normal. In addition if an ECM bubble comes within 600m of a mech with BAP the user of BAP should be notified with something amoung the the lines of "Jamming Detected".

[ApathyZer0]

Bluten, on 16 December 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

Every poll is going to be biased in some direction. So you basically said don't vote. I also never said to make it a hard counter. It wouldn't render the ECM entirely useless as the ECM is doing to the BAP. It'd also only affect the 1 guy carrying it, not his entire team.

No I did not vote. Not all polls are biased as there are people who are actually interested in gathering information rather than trying to incite a predetermined response from it's recipients.
In my personal opinion, ECM isn't as horrible as people are making it out to be. We saw a similar response from the nerf to LRM's at the beginning of open beta. People overreact.

It is likely that ECM has been implemented this way intentionally to gather information on how it impacts gameplay before determining what/if any adjustments need to be made.

I would probably take these kind of threads more seriously if people actually took the time to learn the new mechanics before wanting to change or remove them. I'm not saying that you in particular having been trying work with it but it was less than 24 hours that the patch went live to seeing the forums flood with this stuff. That says more about the users unwillingness to learn than the actual effects of the new equipment.

Once again, I'm not accusing you of this. I have noticed with many people who post on here that seem more interested in complaining to listen to the sound of their own voice.

To show that I'm not here solely to argue with you or anyone else I'll deposit my own 2 cents in the bucket. Allow both LRM's and SSRM's to fire on targets within the ECM bubble. When the missiles reach the bubble they increase in spread from 180 meters to the mech by 2 or 3 times the normal amount. This would greatly reduce the damage to a single target while also spreading minor damage across a group of enemies if grouped tightly. This would create a risk/reward for staying within the bubble. Too close and you may take some damage not intended for you, too far and you take full damage from a missile volley. That should allow ECM to still be strong while missile users still get to fill their role as support damage.

Edited by ApathyZer0, 16 December 2012 - 06:12 AM.

[Taizan]

ApathyZer0, on 16 December 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

Allow both LRM's and SSRM's to fire on targets within the ECM bubble. When the missiles reach the bubble they increase in spread from 180 meters to the mech by 2 or 3 times the normal amount. This would greatly reduce the damage to a single target while also spreading minor damage across a group of enemies if grouped tightly. This would create a risk/reward for staying within the bubble. Too close and you may take some damage not intended for you, too far and you take full damage from a missile volley. That should allow ECM to still be strong while missile users still get to fill their role as support damage.

You can already do that, you just need to be out of the 180m range. TAG, wait for lock, fire. BAP should though give a bonus to the targeting data speed and it seems that this is completely negated.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Apoc1138, on 13 December 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

whilst I partially agree with you on point A (personally I would make BAP increase the 200m range to say 250m with other skills and modules bringing it up to 300m)... in TT, the BAP had no effect on ECM, except that BAP would know it was being jammed, so you would know there were mechs nearby but have no idea where exactly they were... in MWO you already know there are mechs around and if you can't see them on sensor you already know you are being jammed by ECM, so it's a bit of a moot point

so no, BAP is not supposed to be an automatic counter to all ECM, otherwise ECM would be completely pointless and BAP would be OP

Same like ECM is ****** OP and DO NOT work like in TT...so why BAP have to work like in TT?Hell why Small laser do not do 500 dmg at 25km?It is not in TT but they are ok how ECM works in MW so why small laser is supposed to work liíke in TT?

Bluten, on 16 December 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

Every poll is going to be biased in some direction. So you basically said don't vote. I also never said to make it a hard counter. It wouldn't render the ECM entirely useless as the ECM is doing to the BAP. It'd also only affect the 1 guy carrying it, not his entire team.

ECM is now as godly as possible vs. LRMs and there is NOT hard counter except another ECM which means more ECM->winz.
And ECM should work for mech carrying it too then.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Bluten, on 13 December 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Or cancel each other one. Sadly here, it's just ECM works, BAP doesn't do anything.

Yes sadly ECM is goldy piece of nice metal and BAP is pice of crap and since ECM is ingame I didnt saw anyone to use that.It should increase your sensor range.But why you need to increase sensors when ECm jam it to 200m no matter how far are your sensors buffed(with BAP and module).In this case BAP and sensor booster module do not make sense in this game ever(same like LRMs and SSRM-> unless you have your own ECM to counter it.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Zyllos, on 13 December 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Here is my feedback on ECM, which adds BAP an ability to detect ECM mechs around you:

Its like how it was in MW4 mektek here is table
http://www.jadefalco...title=Equipment

Even whole idea of targeting mechs under ECm bubble is BAD bcuz if I CAN see mech in heatvision then I SHOULD target it bcuz I KNOW he is here(Can we get heatvision radar targeting module please? ).

And in TT i can§t see anything that proves it nullify ANY radar signature above 200m to infinite around mech.Overpovered piece of equipment.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Actually the sensor module still works, shockingly enough.(Don't tell Piranha. Then they'll wreck that too.) How do I know this? Well I actually bought it pre-ECM for my LRM Carriers and kept using it just to see if it worked. I was pretty shocked to see that it did. But this just means that instead of a 200m jam, it's 230m. It's not any kind of meaningful increase and certainly not worth your 5kgxp. Save up for the capture module... since half the games are just a capture race now and ALL of them will be so once the new mode hits. Since the patch, that module is by far the best to have. After the new mode is added, it'll be even more so. If you already got the capture module, then save up for the 360 targeting next, since this is Brawler Online now and it'd be helpful for brawling it out at minimum range.

[ApathyZer0]

Taizan, on 16 December 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

You can already do that, you just need to be out of the 180m range. TAG, wait for lock, fire. BAP should though give a bonus to the targeting data speed and it seems that this is completely negated.

Yes, I am aware of this. Unfortunately it requires more coordination then you will see in a random PUG match. There is also the option of a teammate countering enemy ECM. But this runs into the same coordination problem. You will occasionally be gifted with teams that do this but not with nearly enough consistency to count on it.

I was merely tossing out some ideas, personally I still use LRM's and ECM hasn't negated my ability to do so.

[Fajther]

bump

[The Mecha Streisand]

TT rules be damned. I say, let BAP perform the COUNTER function that GECM currently has, and take COUNTER away from GECM. Then, restrict BAP to certain mech models, as was the case with GECM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

...

[Codejack]

Leave the BAP alone; kill ECM outright.

[Tennex]

the BAP isn't that bad. it just seems so much worse in comparison to the OP ECM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Tennex, on 19 December 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

the BAP isn't that bad. it just seems so much worse in comparison to the OP ECM.

It was weak before, now it's just trash. I wish it was bad... because that would be an improvement.

[Jetfire]

BAP does do something, it just doesn't counter ECM, that is not it's purpose and should not be.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Jetfire, on 19 December 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

BAP does do something, it just doesn't counter ECM, that is not it's purpose and should not be.

It does NOTHING if an enemy has an ECM, and it SHOULD counter an ECM, even if partially. Some people just have no concept of game balance.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

does it DO anything now but get shut down by ecm?

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 19 December 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

does it DO anything now but get shut down by ecm?

NuuuuuuuPE!

[Codejack]

Jetfire, on 19 December 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

BAP does do something, it just doesn't counter ECM, that is not it's purpose and should not be.

Well, ECM isn't supposed to do like 83% of the stuff it does in this game; we can't insist on TT rules for one thing when we threw them out the window for something else.