164 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

Stone Wall, on 06 December 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

I did this today in a Streakcat. The other team had 3 ECM mechs while we had none.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2j3g09x.jpg

So let me guess. Your team shot the ECM 'Mechs first and then your raidboss enraged on the rest, beating up anyone stupid enough to venture outside ECM while they were? You have 4 kills and 0 assists, which I'd take to mean "you couldn't do a thing to the ECM carriers, so your team shot them up instead".

I'd say that's a pretty good example of 1) Your Streakcat being able to effectively solo anything without ECM, just like before and 2) You being utterly useless if ECM was involved.

[RabbidFerret]

Quite possibly the biggest impact ECM has had on my gameplay is that a jammed team has a MUCH harder time focusing fire. We all grew very dependant on the Alpha-Beta-Charlie target calling and suddenly teams find themselves without a way to effectively distinguish targets.

"Fire on the Atlas then!"

"Which Atlas, there's 3 of them??"

So yes, the team with the most ECMs has a significant tactical (if not mechanical) advantage.


Edit: I, for one, would like a module that allows you to continue seeing friendly mechs on the map while jammed. That murders situational awareness in a fight where turning your back to check if your friends are still there will get you killed.

Edited by RabbidFerret, 06 December 2012 - 04:36 PM.

[Polarice]

I for one am enjoying it as working right now. No need for changes in my book!

[Stone Wall]

wanderer, on 06 December 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

So let me guess. Your team shot the ECM 'Mechs first and then your raidboss enraged on the rest, beating up anyone stupid enough to venture outside ECM while they were? You have 4 kills and 0 assists, which I'd take to mean "you couldn't do a thing to the ECM carriers, so your team shot them up instead".

I'd say that's a pretty good example of 1) Your Streakcat being able to effectively solo anything without ECM, just like before and 2) You being utterly useless if ECM was involved.

I get wrecked by pilots who can aim ballistics. And I like how the ECM mechs forget about the other mechs to do circles around me. They even forget it's Capture the Base mode and not Team Deathmatch.

[GalaxyBluestar]

FallenFactol, on 06 December 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

ECM is awesome. The game actually feels like Mechwarrior again, not mobile missile artillery warrior. MW has been more about brawling then about missiles. Missiles are support weapons, in tabletop a team with nothing but missiles will lose. Yes missiles have their place and the ECM can use a slight decrease, though I think PGI did the right thing and the game is better for it.

The game isn't horrible because you can't just win now by having 8 missile boats on a team. Now you need a bit of strategy and combined arms. You need someone to go over and disrupt their ECM protection, then you can go back to raining missiles again.... or you could just man up and get some lasers and ACs then brawl it out.

i agree with this mostly but now we're stuck with the other extreme that garrenteeing a target lock on for a whole duration of the missles flight is almost impossible. ecm is like mobile cover so anyone with it can get out into the open with it a cut off the lock on leaving missles plummetting into the ground besides them. i want balance not a too mch of this now we have none of that scenario. i don't see lrms hardly at all now, and anyone who does is going to lose big time as they'll be flanked and nerfed in no time. peole keep talking about dunbfire but they're so slow it's a joke to do that and doing it at 200-300m totally destroys the purpose of them being LONG range weapons. so glad i'm a laser boat and not letting the team down with dead weight. cause that's what happens now. few shots and the match draws to a close as you're brawled to death, i see cata's are pretty much an srm or streak varient now. if the stalker get's here the standard varient will be a joke.

[AlexWildeagle]

Azuanite, on 06 December 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

WTF is this shet, why is it the only equipment that can render entire mechs useless?... do they want everyone to play nothing but ECM mechs?.. cuz right now i find it impossible to play my catapult with all LRMs or streak SRMS when i can never get a chance to lock onto my enemies.

The fact you think an entire mech should be an LRM boat shows you really don't know how to play. Missiles WERE easy mode. Now you have to learn how to actually play the game and leave off the easy button.
It's called "tactics" and you must learn them.

[Tripic]

Wow its amazing how many of your are one way or the other on this. Yes I think that the ecm is necessary in this game however I also think it is way over powered. for example a raven hiding an entire team that's spread out across a mountain is just stupid in my opinion. The Ecm Fanatics say that before this it was lrm wars. I wasn't here before then but I can definitely see that. But now its a who can get the most ecm mechs and hide there team wars. I think maybe the best solution is a reduce the AOE of the ECM i.e. 50 meters instead of 140 or allow any mech to add ecm at the cost of however many tons it is and it only covers the mech running them. As it stands none of the mechs I run are capable of running ecm. the other thing is make it like mw4 so that ecm mechs popup on radar at a certain distance out ie 150 meters. Have you ever tried to hit a mech within 100 meters with lrms. You would be better off throwing rocks at them. To be standing behind me and be invisible just doesn't seem right. I agree 100% that people need to learn to play tactically but playing hide in go seek in the dark with no flash lights is kind of boring.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Azuanite, on 06 December 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

WTF is this shet, why is it the only equipment that can render entire mechs useless?... do they want everyone to play nothing but ECM mechs?.. cuz right now i find it impossible to play my catapult with all LRMs or streak SRMS when i can never get a chance to lock onto my enemies.

Not sure if troll or serious... but the ECM is overpowered. So... well said?

[WhiteRabbit]

Tripic, on 20 December 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

SNIP
Have you ever tried to hit a mech within 100 meters with lrms. You would be better off throwing rocks at them. To be standing behind me and be invisible just doesn't seem right. I agree 100% that people need to learn to play tactically but playing hide in go seek in the dark with no flash lights is kind of boring.

1. those two things have nothing to do with ecm... LRMS have a minimum distance (200m iirc) and you'll never see someone standing right behind you--> your radar shows you only those in your line of sight (with some exceptions)

yes ecm is hard to handle but I've also spent 5 mins today waiting for the LRM rain to stop (while both sides were glued to cover)-that isn't really entertaining either

[Thorqemada]

LRMs allways had many counters:
AMS
Cover
Speed

ECM only has one counter:
More ECM

Also it disables FF and with the identical looking Mechs on every side how will you decide who is friend and who is foe?
It intercepts magically the lightbeam of the TAG optical targetting system and EMPs your boardcomnputer when you be close to it so you cant selftag while 3 of 4 ECM Mechs be that fast that the vulnerability phase is near zero.
Btw does TAG reduce your potential DPS using up a weapon slot opposite to ECM.
3 of 4 ECM Mechs dictate the range of combat as they have the speed initiative.
3 of 4 ECM Mechs mount SSRM.

ECM is the ******* "null-skill-i-win-button"!

PS; I use LRMs only occasionally, i usually play a Centurion.

Edited by Thorqemada, 20 December 2012 - 04:32 PM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

They didn't just mess up missiles and BAP/AMS/Artemis. They also ruined variant balance. 3 Commandos and 2 Ravens are pointless now. 1 Atlas is insultingly bad now since ECM is vastly superior to an AMS. Who would take a K over a D DC? Only an idíot. Since the ECM is so overpowered in this game, so are the variants that can use it. You're never going to use a non ECM variant to a Mech type that can use an ECM except to work up 2 additional talent trees. After that, you'll likely just sell them back to the shop or never use them again. Why would anyone prefer a 2X over a 3L? There's no reason to.

Edited by Bluten, 20 December 2012 - 04:33 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Bluten, on 20 December 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

They didn't just mess up missiles and BAP/AMS/Artemis. They also ruined variant balance. 3 Commandos and 2 Ravens are pointless now. 1 Atlas is insultingly bad now since ECM is vastly superior to an AMS. Who would take a K over a D DC? Only an idíot. Since the ECM is so overpowered in this game, so are the variants that can use it. You're never going to use a non ECM variant to a Mech type that can use an ECM except to work up 2 additional talent trees. After that, you'll likely just sell them back to the shop or never use them again. Why would anyone prefer a 2X over a 3L? There's no reason to.

K was terrible before. Double-D wasn't very good, either. Both were rare mechs to see. Now double-D has a purpose, but K is still bad.
So improve K.

That wasn't very hard, was it?

Edited by Vassago Rain, 20 December 2012 - 04:36 PM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Vassago Rain, on 20 December 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

K was terrible before. Double-D wasn't very good, either. Both were rare mechs to see. Now double-D has a purpose, but K is still bad.
So improve K.

That wasn't very hard, was it?

No, before, when LRMs were good, the K variant was good too. Now it no longer is. I'd have no problem with D DC being exclusive to ECM if it didn't render the other variants crap by comparison.(But it does since ECM is stupidly OP) As I said, with the ECM so OP, it renders other variants in its Mech type pointless.

What wasn't very hard? The things I said? No. But getting people to realize it or understand it... now that's very hard. Only a few of us actually want proper or logical game balance, unfortunately.

[shotokan5]

at the beginning of the game I see all these ecm hats on mechs but they get just as dead as the others. I may make some jump but I don't see it as a big thing. non ecm teams seam to win the same as ecm/. I am sure they keep stats on that and are tracking it. don't worry be happy.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

shotokan5, on 20 December 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

at the beginning of the game I see all these ecm hats on mechs but they get just as dead as the others. I may make some jump but I don't see it as a big thing. non ecm teams seam to win the same as ecm/. I am sure they keep stats on that and are tracking it. don't worry be happy.

Relevance? Win rates doesn't mean it isn't a horrible device.

[Vassago Rain]

Bluten, on 20 December 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

No, before, when LRMs were good, the K variant was good too. Now it no longer is. I'd have no problem with D DC being exclusive to ECM if it didn't render the other variants crap by comparison.(But it does since ECM is stupidly OP) As I said, with the ECM so OP, it renders other variants in its Mech type pointless.

What wasn't very hard? The things I said? No. But getting people to realize it or understand it... now that's very hard. Only a few of us actually want proper or logical game balance, unfortunately.

Hahaha.

No.

You're forgetting the twin AMS didn't actually work until recently. K has always been useless. They should add a laser hardpoint to each arm.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

It was working BEFORE ECM was put in, and thus good at countering LRMs for your team. Now it's useless.

[SlXSlXSlX]

LRM's are overpowered and need nerfed. Cutting their dmg in half would be a good start. ECM's effect should either be widened, or we should be able to put it on any mech. "Missle War Online".... will be "Smallest Gaming Community Ever, Online" ... you watch.

Why don't you lrm boating noobs get a mech, and join the fight.

[Vrekgar]

AMS isnt useless. Were just throwing around 2-4 TIMES the number of missiles.

My salvos have gone from 20 missile launches to 80! Even with Dual AMS your going to take damage.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Vrekgar, on 20 December 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

AMS isnt useless. Were just throwing around 2-4 TIMES the number of missiles.

My salvos have gone from 20 missile launches to 80! Even with Dual AMS your going to take damage.

Not if I stand next to the ECM Umbrella. GL with that Tag.