153 replies to this topic

[Flapdrol]

It's just weapon convergance, aim, wait, fire, and it should be in a single spot, provided the target isn't moving. Always been this way and it's a good thing. Mechwarrior isn't about oneshotting people

last point still stands though

Edited by Flapdrol, 06 December 2012 - 05:41 AM.

[Naitsirch]

Flapdrol, on 06 December 2012 - 05:20 AM, said:

It's just weapon convergance, aim, wait, fire, and it should be in a single spot, provided the target isn't moving. Always been this way and it's a good thing. Mechwarrior isn't about oneshotting people

Read the quote from the letter. Nothing what you say applies to that or has anything to do with that.

[AlexWildeagle]

Well as a person who gets one shotted a good bit cause I stand still I have to say if what the OP says is true thats got to be the most moronic thing I have ever heard. This change even out does their idiotic move of making gauss rifles brittle.
If this is true I have spent my last dollar on MCs, thats for damm sure.

[KerenskyClone]

I one shot a Cat yesterday with my Ac10 from about 100-150 meters. It was at about 55% dmg, so I cant be sure but I hit it in the cockpit and it died...

Stil this needs official clarification, because 0.25 meters collision radius can mean anything...

[Undead Bane]

KerenskyClone, on 06 December 2012 - 05:27 AM, said:

I one shot a Cat yesterday with my Ac10 from about 100-150 meters. It was at about 55% dmg, so I cant be sure but I hit it in the cockpit and it died...

Stil this needs official clarification, because 0.25 meters collision radius can mean anything...

That is, technically, not a one-shot. If you shot undamaged Catapult - that would be the case. However, if you killed it with AC10 to the head, it was already badly damaged.

[Urza Mechwalker]

Daemian, on 06 December 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

Anything that keeps mechs alive longer so we fight more is better imo.

so maybe they shoudl remove weapons from the game... makes mechs alive a lot logner.. and by your logic that must be great! RIGHT?

[Kommisar]

What I would like to know is how this effects my guns in game. I'm a technical shooter, in games and out. I like to know what my weapons are doing when I pull the trigger. Not because I have a feeling of "entitlement" (I'm not even sure if someone can really accuse me of this on this topic... but it is the internet), but because I adjust for how my weapons will work.

To be perfectly honest here, this would explain a lot on my end. Knowing about this now, my gut (again, this is based on nothing but my observations and perceptions) tells me that they increased the radius back in November. I didn't get to play enough the week of Thanksgiving, so it may have been that week; but certainly by the 27 Nov patch. My big guns (including my PPCs... yes, I used them) just felt different. Something has seemed wrong with them. Mind you, I suppose I was one of the head shot guys that was frustrating people. Four linked PPCs on an Awesome made for some prime head hunting. And prior to the November patch(s) I got a lot of good head shot kills. Personal best was 4 in a single round... for some reason catapults with AC/s or gausses feel like they can stop and stare at an Assault mech. Never could figure out what they were thinking. Or why they cried and whined when they went pop.

Now, the notes says they have a radius of 0.25m. Well, I don't know what scale the game has been developed on. So, I don't know how big 0.25 meters is in game. And I don't know if they have upped that value since. So, perhaps 0.25 is tiny and doesn't make a big difference. But if this is really spreading AC/PPC damage, they should tell us this. I could certainly understand if something like that had to happen due to a glitch in the game engine.

But, I have a lot of questions now. As I stated, I like to know what my weapons are doing.

Edited by Kommisar, 06 December 2012 - 05:39 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

It's only going to "spread" if the physical model of the bullet impacts multiple locations, such as hitting the exact boundary between head and CT (or CT and LT, etc etc)

Edited by Redshift2k5, 06 December 2012 - 05:49 AM.

[Undead Bane]

Redshift2k5, on 06 December 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

It's only going to "spread" if the physical model of the bullet impacts multiple locations, such as hitting the exact boundary between head and CT (or CT and LT, etc etc)

Please, read my initial letter to support. In 2 cases of three there there was a guaranteed location hit.

[Vagabond Nomad]

Undead Bane, on 06 December 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

Hello everyone!

Lately I was very frustrated by performance of my builds, that have high one-shot damage output (like, say 2xPPC+AC20 or dual AC20). The problem is, I could not kill mechs with one nicely placed shot in the head anymore, or could not kill lights even if I did hit them with full volley in one burst.
I could not understand if I started to suck so much in sniping, or it is something with game mechanics now. Damage got spread all the time, not going into the location I hit.
So, I collected data and asked support, if it is a bug or some kind of anti-one-shot protection mechanics.
It turned out, that there actually IS such mechanics, though even the GM I was speaking with did not know about its existence at first.

Here is my initial request letter:

Spoiler

And here is a quote from the latest response letter:


So, this means, that big shell's damage is implicitly spread across multiple locations.
What I would like to know is your attitude towards such mechanics.

I will hide mine under the spoiler tag not to poison the thread.

Spoiler

My attitude is HIGHLY negative. Because:

• It favors lightly armored fast moving targets. Again.
  
• If favor lasers. Again. As lasers have explicit (and visible) DoT and convergence problems, and projectiles now have higher convergence problems PLUS implicit (=unpredictable by player) damage spread.
  
• It makes extremely hard to make glass canons - you just cannot one shot anything, no matter how much speed and armor you sacrifice.
  
• It severely limits effectiveness of several mech' variants.

Instead of doing it this way, IMO, ACs should be implemented as burst-fire ACs, so they would have explicit spread, not some weird implicit one.

Also, this was not intended to be a QQ thread. I, personally, do not QQ, I just really want to find out community's opinion on this. Basically, what is more frustrating: being one shot, or being unable to one shot somebody?

UPD:
Valuable info:


However, the point is, that in last patch that was, most likely, heavily tweaked, which resulted in damage being spread all over the mech for, say AC20s, if the mech is as small as, say, Jenner. Not a 0.25m radius, seems much much bigger.

I'm right there with you. That PGI would even consider doing this makes me wonder if any of them have ever even played MechWarrior before. I mean, seriously? If a light mech gets alpha striked by ballistics, it SHOULD be a one-shot kill. The lighter mech's advantage to avoid this is supposed to be its speed. If the pilot is just standing around or moving in a straight light, then learn how to drive your mech.

It's things like this, and the gimping of the UAC5, that really makes me wonder whether PGI knows what the heck it's doing.

[Shadowsword8]

Rather that having damage spread out, I'd have prefered for projectiles to have lowered accuracy. It would make more sense (a shell shouldn't have had laser-like precision in the first place), and would be more in-line with general balance. The only weapons that do full, instant damage in a single area are SSRM, PPC and Projectiles, and the projectiles weapons have little drawbacks compared to the two other kinds.

[Teralitha]

@ OP :

I believe what you are experiencing is a recent change in the netcode with the latest patch that has adversely affected aiming and shooting. I have noticed it as well.

[Naitsirch]

Vagabond Nomad, on 06 December 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

I'm right there with you. That PGI would even consider doing this makes me wonder if any of them have ever even played MechWarrior before. I mean, seriously? If a light mech gets alpha striked by ballistics, it SHOULD be a one-shot kill. The lighter mech's advantage to avoid this is supposed to be its speed. If the pilot is just standing around or moving in a straight light, then learn how to drive your mech.

It's things like this, and the gimping of the UAC5, that really makes me wonder whether PGI knows what the heck it's doing.

Don't forget that the closer the Jenner gets, the more your damage will spread, even if standing still. That is, if the Jenner can be targeted by you while rubberbanding...

[Vagabond Nomad]

Dr Killinger, on 06 December 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

...what?

I can see the reasoning of reducing the chances of being one shotted, but this seems frustrating, especially since I run 2 PPCs and a Gauss Rifle. I'll have to play more to draw a conclusion.

I, on the other hand, CANNOT see the reasoning to reduce the chance of being one-shotted. If a light mech is just standing still, or piloting his mech in a straight line, making him an easy target for snipers, then the solution is simple. LEARN HOW TO DRIVE.

Light mechs are fast to avoid being hit. Use your mech's ability, don't cry that big weapons make your small mech go boom. Take some responsibility, for crying out loud!

[Naitsirch]

Teralitha, on 06 December 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

@ OP :

I believe what you are experiencing is a recent change in the netcode with the latest patch that has adversely affected aiming and shooting. I have noticed it as well.

No it is not, read the letter he quoted, it is 100% intentional and has deliberately been implemented.

Edit for grammar...

Edited by Naitsirch, 06 December 2012 - 06:05 AM.

[Dr Killinger]

Vagabond Nomad, on 06 December 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

I, on the other hand, CANNOT see the reasoning to reduce the chance of being one-shotted. If a light mech is just standing still, or piloting his mech in a straight line, making him an easy target for snipers, then the solution is simple. LEARN HOW TO DRIVE.

Light mechs are fast to avoid being hit. Use your mech's ability, don't cry that big weapons make your small mech go boom. Take some responsibility, for crying out loud!

I agree that a light mech being piloted by a fool deserves to disintegrate I was thinking more along the lines of an Atlas being one shotted from 800m away by some kind of triple Gauss monster or something (not that that's ever happened to me, but if the game ever got to that point it would be exceedingly annoying.)

[Vagabond Nomad]

Daemian, on 06 December 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

I like it.

We don't know how much it is being spread by. could just be a little bit to prevent the one-shots.

Getting one-shotted is not fun.

Anything that keeps mechs alive longer so we fight more is better imo.

If you don't like being one-shotted, then don't stand still, don't move slowly, and don't move in a straight line. That will decrease your chances of being killed in one shot.

[Undead Bane]

Dr Killinger, on 06 December 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

I agree that a light mech being piloted by a fool deserves to disintegrate I was thinking more along the lines of an Atlas being one shotted from 800m away by some kind of triple Gauss monster or something (not that that's ever happened to me, but if the game ever got to that point it would be exceedingly annoying.)

Hey, but that monster sacrificed a lot to get that tripple Gausses. He is a glass cannon, and can be easily killed by lights/mediums. So, IMO, he should have the ability to make one big hole with one shot for all the sacrifices he made.
However, if this is to be limited - let it be explicit limitation, similar to the one lasers have. Like, ACs shooting bursts of bullets, cfaset ones, but still bursts.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Your average Assault Mech is roughly 16-17 Meters Tall, 4-6 Meters wide (Torso).

a .25 damage spread is a reasonable impact size for the weapons being used considering the relative size of the weapons/projectiles themselves.

It's also still possible to get a one shot kill, but you need to be dead center instead of almost. The cockpit bullseye is only .5 meters or so by itself.

[Vagabond Nomad]

Dr Killinger, on 06 December 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

I agree that a light mech being piloted by a fool deserves to disintegrate I was thinking more along the lines of an Atlas being one shotted from 800m away by some kind of triple Gauss monster or something (not that that's ever happened to me, but if the game ever got to that point it would be exceedingly annoying.)

I drive an Atlas, and that's never happened to me. I suppose if someone had the skill to hit my cockpit from all the way across the map, then they probably deserve the one-shot kill against me. I'd hope that such a feat would be difficult from that distance.

And if they DID accomplish that against me, I wouldn't be crying to PGI to spread the damage across my mech so it doesn't happen again. That pilot would have got me fair and square, and should be rewarded. Not punished because I'm being a big baby.