142 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Man. Since the patch the whining about ECM ruining LRMs has been epic. And patently untrue.

What it HAS done, is forced people to change their approach to using them, tactics and on their mechs, hardware configs.

My Drop Group last night faced groups running 2-3 ECMs minimum, every single drop. We were running 2 ourselves, consistently. One in our Commando Scout, the other in our Atlas D-DC. Our Atlas was armed primarily with 3 ALRM 15 racks, an ECM, an ER Large Laser, and a TAG.
Our Commando had 3 Streak Packs and a TAG to go with it's ECM.

The other mechs fluctuated, with me playing in various Cataphracts and whatnot.

Guess which mech consistently laid at the most damage, EVERY SINGLE MATCH? The supposedly nerfed and useless LRM boat, regularly recording 900+ points of damage.

And it was done through simple teamwork, every mech covering the rest, and when an enemy ECM was in the way, our commando would go set his to "DIsrupt" and focus on said mech, while TAG-ing. Our Atlas also didn't find a hill to hide behind like so many LRM boats prefer but actively maintained a 350-450 meter separation so that he could use his own TAG, macro'd to always on, to lase targets and direct fire his LRMs.

TL;DR.... The point is nothing is OP or Broken with ECM. People just haven't taken the time to find the work arounds. Lack of tactics and adaptability, and laziness make new tech OP, not the tech itself.

***EDIT, also, if they "turtle" under multi-ECM umbrella, it means they lose their ability to maneuver very effectively. And LRMs can be dumb fired at a SPOT. Turtled mechs means little ability to shift and doge, and therefore are succeptible to siege barrages.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 06 December 2012 - 06:03 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

It certainly does require a paradigm shift and precise teamwork.

Improvements to TAG usage(already planned!) would certainly help.

[Kaldor]

Good points. I find ECM to be nothing more than an annoyance at the moment. Yeah, its annoying to not be able to lock on a target, but thats about it.

I actually tested a new LRM build last night, and it was pretty damn effective.

[Darzok]

To many people like to whine just for the sake of it LRM`s are fine there still doing tons of damage and been used well only now its not common to see 3+ players stand back using LRM spam to win any more.

[Redshift2k5]

If you don't adapt, then it certainly appears that ECM broke LRMs. The solution is to embrace ECM (they certainly aren't going to remove it!) and learn to work with it instead of struggling to use your LRM boats the old fashioned way.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeah, moral of the Story, TAG IS YOUR FRIEND.

Got a Founders Cat? Best Build possible is 2 ALRM 15 racks, 3 medium lasers (or pulse even) and TAG. I know of one guy running one with TAG, 2 Mediums and a Large instead, but IDK how hot it runs. The TAG and Large currently have similar ranges, so it gives nice bump to his support fire at that range.

[Bishop Steiner]

Also, I realize this level of coordination is not easy for PUGs. But by pugging, one already assumes that one cannot control the quality of their team, so if they bukild mechs that require support/ cooperation, they have bigger issues.

Mama always said: "PUG-ing is like a box of Chock-o-lats. You never know what you're gonna get" (but you can bet yo azz at least one will be a coconut cream filled mother****** just waiting to leave a bad taste in your mouth!)

And from the Most Interesting MechWarrior in the Galaxy:
"I don't always PUG, but when I do, I only use Direct Fire Weapons!"

[Undead Bane]

LRMs are good, they are just very hard to use agains a skilled team, as that team realizes, that LRMs are good and concentrated on LRM boat =)
Also, ECM made LRMs more a direct fire weapon, IMO, but they are still devastating.

Long story short: you need skill with them now, it is not a "I win" button anymore.

Edited by Undead Bane, 06 December 2012 - 06:33 AM.

[Sen]

C'mon, I'm LOVING all the "ECM is O/P" threads guys!

It is, ultimately, the sweet intoxicating wine brewed from the crystal tears of every streak cat and LRM boat pilot. . . fermented to PERFECTION!

The simple truth is these guys, primarily people who rely missiles to offset their inability to aim and fire, ARE NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO REASON!

That's right, they're going to continue to blame ECM for why they are bad. It doesn't matter that ECM has improved pugs VASTLY MORE than reinstating 8 man groups. Missiles are no longer easy mode for the hard of thinking, and no amount of rational explanation is going to placate them.

The only viable "nerf" I would suggest considering [and i've said this in a few other posts] is POSSIBLY to lmit ECM to one or two mechs per side per match. Even then i'm not so sure. . but I got nothin' else

[Carcass23]

I agree completely OP. Now why did this need its own thread when there are 10 separate ECM is ruining the game threads?

[wanderer]

Right. So ECM isn't broken, as long as it's a premade built around TAG/ECM 'Mechs- in other words, the solution to ECM is...ECM, until like AMS, everyone mounts it. TAG is just icing on the cake- it's the counter-ECM mode on the Commando circling your target that's providing you the opportunity, and gawd help you if that 'Mech has Streaks on it, as you've just given him free reign to blow your 25-tonner a new orifice, just like the old days (and if he's smart and YOU ECM him, he counters and kills you lickety-split).

What, you think ECM is only going to remain on a highly limited number of chassis for long? That's what they said in closed beta about AMS. You may notice every 'Mech on the field now can use an AMS hardpoint, and the original Atlas-K got TWO. After all, we can all mount BAP...so the excuse that ECM is going to remain a limited option is a fallacy.

And I can easily remember when nearly every 'Mech on the field had AMS. ECM is better than that and will likely shoot to near 100% use if delimited from specific chassis- and that's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

[Strelitzia]

Funnny. So the only viable LRM boat you found is the one equipped with ECM.

[Ozric]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

Yeah, moral of the Story, TAG IS YOUR FRIEND.

Got a Founders Cat? Best Build possible is 2 ALRM 15 racks, 3 medium lasers (or pulse even) and TAG. I know of one guy running one with TAG, 2 Mediums and a Large instead, but IDK how hot it runs. The TAG and Large currently have similar ranges, so it gives nice bump to his support fire at that range.

I run a similar build to this in my C1, and the heat is fine. 'tis an expensive mech though...

ALRM15 x2
MPLAS x2
LLAS
TAG
DHS x13

1.07 heat. Which as you don't tend to use the missiles and the pulse lasers at the same time is more than adequate.

[Mercules]

Yes, that is one way around it. I myself ran a Raven. We also had a hunchback, 'phract, and A1 with Streaks in our lance last night. When we encountered an ECM mech I flipped to disrupt and we focused fire upon it till it died. Others understand this as a couple times I became primary target but my teammates were actively body-guarding me. A couple times the Streakcat and Hunchback stepped in the way to take the fire off me so I could do my Electronic Warfare thing.

I still think we need to make a few changes,but not to ECM. Kobold has written a wonderful essay on what I believe is the issue, no ECM but LRMs and Streaks. Read it!
http://mwomercs.com/...add-a-band-aid/

[Chrithu]

LRMs are still useable just fine. I do agree with that.

[Joseph Mallan]

Strelitzia, on 06 December 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

Funnny. So the only viable LRM boat you found is the one equipped with ECM.

because it allows you to use ECCM as well.

[Sevaradan]

oh no, lrms require some coordination to use effectively...

[Darth JarJar]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

Mama always said: "PUG-ing is like a box of Chock-o-lats. You never know what you're gonna get" (but you can bet yo azz at least one will be a coconut cream filled mother****** just waiting to leave a bad taste in your mouth!)

BWAhahahaha! Brilliant! Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

[Apoc1138]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 December 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

because it allows you to use ECCM as well.

ECCM is of no use to an LRM boat - need to be within 180m to use ECCM... need to be more than 180m to use LRM's... so in the act of neutralising the ECM that is stopping you from firing... you are too close to use your LRM's

TAG is the counter to ECM that LRM boats need

[MadcatX]

My only small gripe with TAG is that takes up an energy hardpoint.

As for LRM's being useless, lets not kid ourselves and say they're as good as they used to be pre-patch. They're not useless, just less effective and will lose lock more often (even with TAG)