288 replies to this topic

[Sprouticus]

Elwood Blues, on 07 December 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

I think a lot of players switch back and forth for many reasons.

1. You may not have 8 players together to fill out an 8 man drop and want to play.
2. You've been playing 8 player drops for a while and want to play something more informal.
3. You want to farm some Cbills.

8 player drops require you to be ready to bring your best. Sometimes you just want to drop and shoot stuff with some of your fellow brigade members. If you try to play informal 8 player drops, you are just going to get your head kicked in.

I can tell you that CSA dropped last night on a non practice night with between 8 and 12 players all night. We ran 1 8 man and everyone else rotated in and was pugging the rest of the time.

Also, during the day when we dont have 8 people on we were running 4 mans.

But as soon (and I mean literally the minute the th guy showed up) as we got 8 people online we started running 8 mans.

I dont understand why people insist that everyone who plays the game is trying to get 'easy wins'. I think that while some of those people exist, most units want the best experience possible and right now that is in 8 mans.

We were running new tactics last night and probably ended up with a roughly 50% win rate. But we played on anyways because THATS HOW YOU GET BETTER.


On a side note, we were running some VERY low ECM builds last night and still managed to win 50%. Even when out tonned by a significant margin.

D-DC /Cicada loadouts (although quite powerful) are NOT the be all end all.

[Vermaxx]

They were supposed to implement P2 with flexible 'premade' group sizes. That went out the window somewhere. Not everyone here was hellfired to do "eight man teams," they were hellfired to do "PREMADE TEAMS."

PGI backslid and defined the queue as 8-man only, meaning you HAVE to get 8 online. I can tell you how much time can be wasted in FOUR MAN TEAMS, with someone crashing, or diddiling mechlab, or running afk due to girlfriend aggro.

Add in four extra guys and you're sharting time left and right, to say nothing of delays due to 'cannot find match.' Solo grindy play was always more profitable than team play, because you ran through matches at a significantly higher rate. Well, a lot of the necessary playstyles have been outlawed, so the smaller team capable of dropping easier and more often will pay higher.

There is also the stigma that you "should" be in the 8man queue if you are of a certain skill, or time spent here, or financial level. If the game is about fun, and winning is always more fun than losing, people are going to go where the wins are. 8 man teams are more work. Some people really like to be challenged in their play. A lot don't.

[Stargazer86]

There are a lot of pro-gamers in this thread, aren't there?

[PropagandaWar]

Vermaxx, on 07 December 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

They were supposed to implement P2 with flexible 'premade' group sizes. That went out the window somewhere. Not everyone here was hellfired to do "eight man teams," they were hellfired to do "PREMADE TEAMS."

PGI backslid and defined the queue as 8-man only, meaning you HAVE to get 8 online. I can tell you how much time can be wasted in FOUR MAN TEAMS, with someone crashing, or diddiling mechlab, or running afk due to girlfriend aggro.

Add in four extra guys and you're sharting time left and right, to say nothing of delays due to 'cannot find match.' Solo grindy play was always more profitable than team play, because you ran through matches at a significantly higher rate. Well, a lot of the necessary playstyles have been outlawed, so the smaller team capable of dropping easier and more often will pay higher.

There is also the stigma that you "should" be in the 8man queue if you are of a certain skill, or time spent here, or financial level. If the game is about fun, and winning is always more fun than losing, people are going to go where the wins are. 8 man teams are more work. Some people really like to be challenged in their play. A lot don't.

We have a dropship called high octane basically when your in there you dont work on your mechs you just drop. Casuals for all the other stuff. Suprisingly enough we drop a lot even in that one.

[Joe Mallad]

The problem with 8 man teams right now is that while MOST of us (my team included) want to play other 8 man teams that are challenging team. What we are running into more times than not are 8 mans that are running all ECM atlases and or pure speed teams and going right for a Cap. There is no fun in this for us (the majority) of the 8 man team, that want to play a real game. This is the #1 issue with the 8 man pre-made drops right now.

[QuantumButler]

Blame PGI, they decided to limit group vs group to 8 mans only, so if 1 guy drops out or only 7 or less guys in Kong are on we're forced to pugstomp.

When we have enough guys to roll with 8mans though we do it as much as possible since even guys who stack all of the Atlases with ECM are fun to fight [since most people are still bad]

The only 8man groups that are a chore to battle are the guys determined to bashrush to victory, they clearly don't want to even play the game so I'm not sure why they bother.

Edited by QuantumButler, 07 December 2012 - 08:40 AM.

[Prophet0027]

I have had a great time running 8v8 matches so far. We have almost no down time between matches. We win more than we lose. We run either 2x2x2x2 or 2x0x3x3 and we have olny gotten roflstompwnd a few times. For anyone to say that 8v8 is dead is crazy. In my opinin it would seem that the only time anyone would go 4man is because there are not enough people online in their corps or house to run a full 8. I used to run only pugs, I thought that it would be to much of a time commitment to join a house or corps. But in reality joining an organized group has really enhanced my enjoyment of the game, I still play at the same times used to, I'm still on as little or as much as I was before, now I just enjoy playing a whole lot more.

[MorbidGamer]

Good to see pre-mades feel the pain of puggers. Now you got a taste of your own meds. No more easy mode.

Now you can either...

1. Get rid of groups completely.
2. Limit pugable groups to 3 man while letting 4 mans vs 4 mans.

Or

3 .Keep it as is and feel the pain.

Your choice. It's great to be pugger. Game is fun when your not fighting pre-mades and have chaos. Plus seeing more then atlas and lights is great.

Must suck having to play cheap to win.

Edited by MorbidGamer, 07 December 2012 - 08:44 AM.

[Lin Shai]

Why do we feed the trolls?

Let me explain what's going on.

We now have segregated, 8v8 matches. This has removed a large number of the dreaded "pre-made" players from the PUG pool.

Now, I have no doubt that given PGI's utter failure (once again) to produce something decent that there's still people playing with friends against PUGs at least some of the time.

• Don't have 8? Split and drop until you get 8
  
• Tired of the mismatched teams / Atlas Online? Go PUG or drop in 1-4

However ... that's not really the issue. Bad PUGs need something to blame their losses on. Because obviously there's no way their l337 skills would get them killed by other PUGs.

As an added bonus, they somehow have it in their heads that they can inflate their egos by saying that it's "The teams that can't hack it" that are killing them. I actually find that kind of odd because what that would mean is even players who aren't very good at playing in groups are significantly better than they are, but hey ... it's their inferiority complex.

This is just the same-old-same-old. ::sigh:: Good PUGs will occasionally run into people playing with friends, sometimes win, sometimes lose. Bad PUGs ... will say they're always playing "pre-mades" and getting "farmed" or "stomped". As has always been the case.

Edited by Lin Shai, 07 December 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[TANTE EMMA]

Reign Of Courage, on 06 December 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

The trick with 8 man is

1. You really need a solid team who knows what they are doing or a clan that has been playing together for some time
2. You need a good Team Lead who has good command & control but yet not a total jackass
3. Strategy wise, you need a general direction before even dropping

wise words. that is exactly how it is done, even though our team is jackasses only...

... "we are the commando elite, the rest is just toys."

[QuantumButler]

MorbidGamer, on 07 December 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

Good to see pre-mades feel the pain of puggers. Now you got a taste of your own meds. No more easy mode.

Now you can either...

1. Get rid of groups completely.
2. Limit pugable groups to 3 man while letting 4 mans vs 4 mans.

Or

3 .Keep it as is and feel the pain.

Your choice. It's great to be pugger. Game is fun when your not fighting pre-mades and have chaos. Plus seeing more then atlas and lights is great.

Must suck having to play cheap to win.

Only the bads are feeling the pain, because they're bad.

Wow a 8 man group using joysticks so they can't hit the broad side of a barn keeps getting stomped? No effing way.

[PropagandaWar]

MorbidGamer, on 07 December 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

Good to see pre-mades feel the pain of puggers. Now you got a taste of your own meds. No more easy mode.

Now you can either...

1. Get rid of groups completely.
2. Limit pugable groups to 3 man while letting 4 mans vs 4 mans.

Or

3 .Keep it as is and feel the pain.

Your choice. It's great to be pugger. Game is fun when your not fighting pre-mades and have chaos. Plus seeing more then atlas and lights is great.

Must suck having to play cheap to win.

Whats funny about your Atlas light comment is Pugs are the ones that generally run the stupid things. My team usually comprise of mediums occasionaly a heavy never an assault or light. We do that to offset what Pugs generally drop in along with the lame gauss/thunder builds and the notoriously cheap streak cat. Sorry but you are wrong. I play both 8 and 4 man while you play your solo only. I will continue to fight in my mediums in the wild frontier to get better while you continue to do the same old thing.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 07 December 2012 - 08:54 AM.

[QuantumButler]

Noakei Siegel, on 07 December 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

wise words. that is exactly how it is done, even though our team is jackasses only...

... "we are the commando elite, the rest is just toys."

We've noticed this too, of course we here in Kong are all 100% jackasses, but since we're so casual pretty much anyone can just join and drop with us how well our teams do in 8mans varies greatly.

If the team has someone with a solid grasp of command and okay skills, we do well, if the team is full of the guys who only joined MWO like 2 weeks ago and/or hardly ever talk on the mic, we do poorly.

So far our record is having 4 full 8mans going at once, with those of us who've been playing since August or earlier doing well and the new guys not doing so well [unless a solid leader emerges/takes command, it's surprising how well even poor players can do if they're directed properly and are given primary and secondary targets to concentrate fire on]

I think the problem is a lot of 8man groups expected this to be a return to the easy pugstomps of old, and didn't realize they needed to put in at least some effort.

Edited by QuantumButler, 07 December 2012 - 08:55 AM.

[MorbidGamer]

PropagandaWar, on 07 December 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Whats funny about your Atlas light comment is Pugs are the ones that generally run the stupid things. My team usually comprise of mediums occasionaly a heavy never an assault or light. We do that to offset what Pugs generally drop in along with the lame gauss/thunder builds and the notoriously cheap streak cat. Sorry but you are wrong. I play both 8 and 4 man while you play your solo only. I will continue to fight in my mediums in the wild frontier to get better while you continue to do the same old thing.

Funny when I play pugs I see trail mechs, med mechs, and heavy mech... RARE to see anything wieght class being over represented.

Though there has been an increasing amount of light mechs now and with ECM commando's are the #1 choice with raven a close #2. Jenners are rare to see now after patch.

[Vassago Rain]

They couldn't tango with Kong.

[Kraven Kor]

Stargazer86, on 07 December 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

There are a lot of pro-gamers in this thread, aren't there?

Hey, I have to be at the gym dropship in 26 minutes...

Edited by Kraven Kor, 07 December 2012 - 09:02 AM.

[Buddhist Knight]

Tough on some of the less coordinated groups out there and groups made up of people who have never played together. I would have to agree with the OP as I pugged 6 times late last night with at least two of them being 8man premades. I follow the mindset behind this but i heavily disagree with it. I mean why would you choose to pick the lesser challenge? Again, im reminded of an oft quited axiom (paraphrasing here), most times the only things worth doing are those things which are difficult

[Sprouticus]

QuantumButler, on 07 December 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

We've noticed this too, of course we here in Kong are all 100% jackasses, but since we're so casual pretty much anyone can just join and drop with us how well our teams do in 8mans varies greatly.

If the team has someone with a solid grasp of command and okay skills, we do well, if the team is full of the guys who only joined MWO like 2 weeks ago and/or hardly ever talk on the mic, we do poorly.

So far our record is having 4 full 8mans going at once, with those of us who've been playing since August or earlier doing well and the new guys not doing so well [unless a solid leader emerges/takes command, it's surprising how well even poor players can do if they're directed properly and are given primary and secondary targets to concentrate fire on]

I think the problem is a lot of 8man groups expected this to be a return to the easy pugstomps of old, and didn't realize they needed to put in at least some effort.

You had me until the last sentence. I have not heard in a single post that anyone exp4ected it to go back to 8 man pug stomping. some people are irritated by the ECM issue, and those folks will be sorely disappointed when they realize that ECM is not the underlying issue when it gets adjusted. But even those people didnt expect it to be easymode again.


On a side note, great to see Kong (and other large units) getting that many groups running. CSA has only had 1 practice since the patch and we has 2 1/2 groups running. Which is right where we want to be I think. Running with that many people is a LOT of overhead.

Edited by Sprouticus, 07 December 2012 - 09:05 AM.

[QuantumButler]

Buddhist Knight, on 07 December 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

Tough on some of the less coordinated groups out there and groups made up of people who have never played together. I would have to agree with the OP as I pugged 6 times late last night with at least two of them being 8man premades. I follow the mindset behind this but i heavily disagree with it. I mean why would you choose to pick the lesser challenge? Again, im reminded of an oft quited axiom (paraphrasing here), most times the only things worth doing are those things which are difficult

We here at Kong don't tend to syncdrop in the pub qeue, if you run into us in a Pub game there's only 4 or less of us.

Why don't we syncdrop you ask?

It's too much trouble.

[TANTE EMMA]

Sprouticus, on 07 December 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

On a side note, great to see Kong (and other large units) getting that many groups running. CSA has only had 1 practice since the patch and we has 2 1/2 groups running. Which is right where we want to be I think. Running with that many people is a LOT of overhead.

That would be NBT-CSA, quiaff?