288 replies to this topic

[KinLuu]

Lefty Lucy, on 07 December 2012 - 06:23 AM, said:

Huh, I think the burgeoning e-sports phenomenon would be evidence that many people *do* care about competition.

Not in their own games though.

And most define competition as beeing able to wave around their e-peen. Preferred in the form of stats. See for example BF3.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Twisted Power, on 07 December 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

@ op: Think of 1-2 scout mechs with ecm, and an entire team of DDC atlas with ECM maby 1 or 2 guass boats. They walk up to your base and stand on it. You can't target them unless right up in their face, or you just get all cheap mechs like ac 20 cats and double guas mechs and some DDC's and not move from your base and kill everything that comes near it. This is the new 8 man.

There is no tactics. ECM attacks(messes up your computers when to close) defends(Cloaks from locks an entire team within 180m) and counters(makes bap/streaks/lrms tag) usless, all at the same time.

They put to many things into one item and now the gameplay sucks. So I would rather play in a 4 man group.

There are only 2 weapons types that are rendered inoperable by ECM, LRM's and Streaks. Nothing is stopping you from putting your crosshairs on an enemy mech and pulling the trigger.

[Enigmos]

WhiteRabbit, on 07 December 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

the funny thing is: i tried some pug matches on patch-day; 9 out of 10 times my team was somewhat coordinated, knew what they did, etc. (btw there was only one complete stomp in all those games i played that day)

checked again yesterday and .... wtf... 2-3 people taking off together in a random direction (when 5-6 people agreed on one tactic) and that happened every second match....

My guess: MWO is still attracting new pilots. They will learn, or they will choose to look elsewhere..

[Erik Jast]

KinLuu, on 07 December 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

Not in their own games though.

And most define competition as beeing able to wave around their e-peen. Preferred in the form of stats. See for example BF3.

Being competitive for most premade groups equate to stacking and padding their W/L, K/D, and C-Bill gain per hour. Not 'Oh man that was such a good game!' Why do you think so many people return to pug stomping in their 4 man groups. They split their 8 man into two 4 mans so they can pad their stats and pretend they are 'competitive'.

[Joseph Mallan]

Erik Jast, on 07 December 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

You know what you premades keep telling Pugs to do when there is a problem like that? Go on teamspeak, grab the people there who are apparently waiting in droves for a group. If it isn't hard for pugs to find a group, it shouldn't be hard for a group to fill in one or two slots.

And this would be good advice, but from a team perspective, it takes a few matches to learn the new guy's way of doing things. Plus there is a difference between, complaining about AFK, TKs and the like, and how joining a team eliminated it, v We don't have enough for a 4 man drop so PUG for a few drops.

[Kriestov]

Lefty Lucy, on 07 December 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

LOL, you guys just can't give up that Skinner Box.

This is why having an "economy" is antithetical to a game designed for competition.

A "sane" person would run 8 mans because they don't care about imaginary space buxx, and want to have the best challenge available.

Argue it as much as you like, but competitive units testing out mech types, new mechs and/or unit compositions need money. The most efficent way to make said money, is to drop 4 mans. Thats not to say thats all any team is doing, but in order to understand the games ever-changing meta(in regards to mech-building), you need to have a large mechbay, and a decent bankroll. Any "Sane" person would understand that. Try again.

P.S. Running over barely functioning 8 Mans in not a challenge. But it does require more effort than 4 mans due to the organizational requirements. Which is why kicking on some ManoWar and punching some C-Bills out of a PuG is a much more efficent, and more relaxing way of generating C-Bills. My apologies, if that offends your delicate sensibilities.

Edited by Kriestov, 07 December 2012 - 06:44 AM.

[KinLuu]

Erik Jast, on 07 December 2012 - 06:36 AM, said:

Being competitive for most premade groups equate to stacking and padding their W/L, K/D, and C-Bill gain per hour. Not 'Oh man that was such a good game!' Why do you think so many people return to pug stomping in their 4 man groups. They split their 8 man into two 4 mans so they can pad their stats and pretend they are 'competitive'.

Thats what I said?

[Twisted Power]

Bubba Wilkins, on 07 December 2012 - 06:33 AM, said:

There are only 2 weapons types that are rendered inoperable by ECM, LRM's and Streaks. Nothing is stopping you from putting your crosshairs on an enemy mech and pulling the trigger.

Right, so the all assualt mech team wins every time then. Such great gameplay! /sarc

[Like a Sir]

Well, my game is working again, unfortunately I still work second shift and play super late hours . That being said , played 1 pug last night, then 2 4 man drops, and then I found an 8 man with captain midnight.... Yeah, given the choice, as someone who always joins late night groups on ts, I would always drop 8 man if I could oh and I think we only had 2 atlases... Not sure I followed the raven lol

[Moku]

They should just go back to the old matchmaking system but separate all the new pilots to only drop with other new pilots. New Player servers and Normal servers. There should be a minimum xp or cbill point where you earn the option to move to the normal servers and a maximum xp limit where you automatically get bumped to the normal pool of servers. The new player servers could even have a cap of 4 man teams.

All this 4 man and 8 man matchmaking programming is horrible and I don't know how any sane developer would expect the community to enjoy being forced to drop against other 8 man teams that can be in any random class without weight balance.

Moku 10SR

Edited by Moku, 07 December 2012 - 06:56 AM.

[Bluescuba]

8 v 8 is great fun and a real challenge... however, our merc corp can have anywhere between 2 and 30 people on at anyone time... this does not always allow us the luxury of having a full 8 man teams at all times. In those times that either we have less than 8 or a number not divisible by 8 some of us still have to drop in 4 mans.

I honestly hate it when I can't get in one of our 8 mans, as after playing in 8 mans the lack of skill and team work in pug matches is even more pronounce than when phase 1 was introduced.

Edited by Bluescuba, 07 December 2012 - 06:59 AM.

[DogmeatX]

Kriestov, on 07 December 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

Argue it as much as you like, but competitive units testing out mech types, new mechs and/or unit compositions need money. The most efficent way to make said money, is to drop 4 mans. Thats not to say thats all any team is doing, but in order to understand the games ever-changing meta(in regards to mech-building), you need to have a large mechbay, and a decent bankroll. Any "Sane" person would understand that. Try again.

P.S. Running over barely functioning 8 Mans in not a challenge. But it does require more effort than 4 mans due to the organizational requirements. Which is why kicking on some ManoWar and punching some C-Bills out of a PuG is a much more efficent, and more relaxing way of generating C-Bills. My apologies, if that offends your delicate sensibilities.

In other words you're self justifying your easy farming pub stomping. That's great. Just hope the next time you do it you don't drive away from the game (worst case scenario) 8 new random people who happen to be on the receiving end. Keep justifying it to yourself though...

[Erik Jast]

KinLuu, on 07 December 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

Thats what I said?

I'm just backing up what you said with my experiences as well.

Twisted Power, on 07 December 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

Right, so the all assualt mech team wins every time then. Such great gameplay! /sarc

Premades kept telling pugs to adapt, overcome the difficulties, learn2play. Why can't premades do what they preach?

Edited by Erik Jast, 07 December 2012 - 06:56 AM.

[Kriestov]

DogmeatX, on 07 December 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

In other words you're self justifying your easy farming pub stomping. That's great. Just hope the next time you do it you don't drive away from the game (worst case scenario) 8 new random people who happen to be on the receiving end. Keep justifying it to yourself though...

I'm playing the game to within it's matchmaking limitations. How dare I.

[Fais]

I dont know about all this knocking the 8 mans so much. I think we ran 10 matches last night in 8v8 and we lost 1 match (and we had a disconnect and hit by a lucky head shot first thing). We rarely run more then 2 Atlas, most of the time only one was a DDC. We had a very balanced team of all the classes. We stomped most of the heavy Atlas teams and the Light teams. Really comes down to the pilots and how well everyone was organized. With that said, balancing the 8v8 teams by class would be a fun option as well.

[Broceratops]

we've been running 2/2/2/2 almost all of the time, with no more than 3 atlases or heavies max, and have only lost once as far as I know. and that one time was outside our practice hours so a couple of us were using pretty stupid mechs.

ironically that game was the best so far for me because it ended up 7-8. And not to take anything away from the other team (KAOS) because they were probably dropping with some testmechs too

[deadeye mcduck]

I'm glad we got the 8 mans back, my merc corp is enjoying the challenge far more. This is because we are a very well organised lot, and don't all drop with a team of Atlas, we drop with 2-3 ECM mechs and just co-ordinate.

[Erik Jast]

Broceratops, on 07 December 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

we've been running 2/2/2/2 almost all of the time, with no more than 3 atlases or heavies max, and have only lost once as far as I know. and that one time was outside our practice hours so a couple of us were using pretty stupid mechs.

ironically that game was the best so far for me because it ended up 7-8. And not to take anything away from the other team (KAOS) because they were probably dropping with some testmechs too

So what you are saying is that premades that are whining about D-DC stomping and retreating to pugstomp land are just scrubs who couldn't hack it who were only good at pugstomping? Why am I not surprised.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Kriestov, on 07 December 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

Argue it as much as you like, but competitive units testing out mech types, new mechs and/or unit compositions need money. The most efficent way to make said money, is to drop 4 mans. Thats not to say thats all any team is doing...

Your unit is not truly "competitive" if you have to do 4-man drops for any reason.

If a team tries to justify 4-man drops as a way to make c-bills, then their unit must lack the skill to beat other 8-man teams consistently. And hence is not competitive.

If a team has to wait a long time to find enough people to fill their drop list, then their unit lacks a dedicated reliable full time membership. And hence is not competitive.

That said, I don't disagree with you at all that dropping as a 4-man team can be a more enjoyable and relaxing way to play. Just don't try to frame it as building the e-sport worthiness of your dedicated unit, because dropping in 4s only reveals there are possible weaknesses in your unit.

For every hour a team is not out there training and perfecting tactics together as a full 8-man group, other "competitive" units surely are.

Perhaps, it's better to just admit that you like playing the game better casually with 3 friends. I know that makes all the Elitez Mercenary profile banners at the bottom of forum posts seem kind of silly, but it's probably the truth for a great deal of premades out there.

They just wanna have casual stompy robot fun. Exactly like the lowly PUGs do. Except with a better K/D/W/L ratio.

.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 07 December 2012 - 07:26 AM.

[Fais]

A much bigger problem with 8v8 is all these fatal bugs that crash people to their desktop, lock them in at 4fps, bug their Hud, the gold screen bug, the black screen bug. Those are the things that hurt 8v8 the most in my humble opinion.