288 replies to this topic

[G4M3R]

I play 8v8 about 90% of the time now with my clan. PUG servers don't really offer much of a challenge now imho as I can see the skill level has dramatically dropped since 8v8 came out. I haven't had/seen many of the issues people are complaining about - maybe I'm one of the "cheese" builds?

[Tremendous Upside]

I'm surprised it's taken 3 days to have threads like this hit the forums... Yeah, I think everyone felt the Phase 2 matchmaking was going to make things "better" both for the premades and the lone wolves - but the problem is that 8v8 is not what most were expecting. It's hyper-competitive. The games tend to drag out for FAR longer than a normal quick-launch game does, and that's half the problem.

Here's the problem in a nutshell. If you're running 8 man groups, the games typically run long. Very long. You have to be willing to throw down an hour or more for 3 or 4 games. And you could easily lose all of them. Badly. You can stretch till 2-3 minutes left and still lose 8-0 or 7-1, and that happens an awful lot from what I've seen. It's frustrating, and contrary to what most believe, there are plenty of VOIP/groupers that aren't loaded with c-bills and tricked out mechs. Many are just as short on cash as the non-VOIP puggers Many are still relatively new players - with microphones, and in one of the groups I joined last night, we still had a guy dropping in trial mechs...

On the flip side, you can run with a pickup 4-man group, and the experience is 180 degrees in the other direction. Most games will take under 5 minutes, and your risk of dying is usually in the single digit percentages - assuming your group is halfway decent. 4-mans are still MWO's easy-mode right now. All that's changed is that the super-hardcore teams have left the queue. You can drop as 4 with 1 or 2 D-DCs, watch the rest of the PuGers scatter, pick a direction and then group march straight to the cap - game over. It's so easy, that if you have a solid group, you can deathball your way to the cap and not even bother taking cover. With that being the case, is it any wonder so many are going that route instead of 8v8 with no tonnage limits? The best teams and players are all there, and you'll spend 95% of your time sitting in cover waiting for the game to break one way or the other. To some, that's not what they'd call "fun"... and sadly, it means the 4-man queues are alive and well (and probably will be for some time to come).

[Lefty Lucy]

Norris J Packard, on 07 December 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

I just figured out that we have the exact same winning potential in 4-mans, with a lot of less delay and chatter while receiving the same earnings.

Why wouldn't any sane person just do 4-mans?

Kriestov, on 07 December 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

People still need C-Bills. 4 Mans are the most efficent way of generating them.

LOL, you guys just can't give up that Skinner Box.

This is why having an "economy" is antithetical to a game designed for competition.

A "sane" person would run 8 mans because they don't care about imaginary space buxx, and want to have the best challenge available.

Edited by Lefty Lucy, 07 December 2012 - 06:16 AM.

[Enigmos]

Riffleman, on 06 December 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Really? You gave 8 man games a try for 3 whole days? This is becoming a trend as its at least 6 recognizable teams I have seen today alone. One of the groups was on my team, I asked them what happened, is the dream dead already? They said 8v8 is total bs right now, nothing running but cheeze builds.

Is it really so bad you just arent having fun in 8 man teams now? What needs to change, I imagine actual tonnage matching would help. Whats so bad about it though?

<calmly whacks Riffleman with a bamboo cane> *****!

If I don't have seven others ready to drop I will settle for PUG scraps.

[Glory in the Highest]

Riffleman, on 06 December 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Really? You gave 8 man games a try for 3 whole days?

Sometimes we don't have 8 people on, or we have somewhere between 8 and 16 on... we have to play SOMEhow! Do you hate us that much?

[Taryys]

There is not always enough people to run full 8 mans. I have this problem too.
I also wish they would disable synch dropping.

[Twisted Power]

@ op: Think of 1-2 scout mechs with ecm, and an entire team of DDC atlas with ECM maby 1 or 2 guass boats. They walk up to your base and stand on it. You can't target them unless right up in their face, or you just get all cheap mechs like ac 20 cats and double guas mechs and some DDC's and not move from your base and kill everything that comes near it. This is the new 8 man.

There is no tactics. ECM attacks(messes up your computers when to close) defends(Cloaks from locks an entire team within 180m) and counters(makes bap/streaks/lrms tag) usless, all at the same time.

They put to many things into one item and now the gameplay sucks. So I would rather play in a 4 man group.

[Lefty Lucy]

Taryys, on 07 December 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

There is not always enough people to run full 8 mans. I have this problem too.
I also wish they would disable synch dropping.

I can't see any way they'd disable sync dropping specifically, but they should absolutely:

1. Prioritize matching teams *against* each other in the random queue regardless of weight class
2. Give solo players a "no team" queue option.

[KinLuu]

Lefty Lucy, on 07 December 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

LOL, you guys just can't give up that Skinner Box.

This is why having an "economy" is antithetical to a game designed for competition.

A "sane" person would run 8 mans because they don't care about imaginary space buxx, and want to have the best challenge available.

Haha!

Do you even believe what you write yourself?

Most people could not care less about competition. Especially the FPS crowd.

[WhiteRabbit]

G4M3R, on 07 December 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

I play 8v8 about 90% of the time now with my clan. PUG servers don't really offer much of a challenge now imho as I can see the skill level has dramatically dropped since 8v8 came out. I haven't had/seen many of the issues people are complaining about - maybe I'm one of the "cheese" builds?

the funny thing is: i tried some pug matches on patch-day; 9 out of 10 times my team was somewhat coordinated, knew what they did, etc. (btw there was only one complete stomp in all those games i played that day)

checked again yesterday and .... wtf... 2-3 people taking off together in a random direction (when 5-6 people agreed on one tactic) and that happened every second match....

[DogmeatX]

Two queues

1 - pick and mix side vs side from premades of size 2-7, fill in that last slot or two with randoms

2 - all randoms all the time, no premades

Problems solved, if premade group still whining then that 100% proves all they want to do is pub stomp.

Surely someone's intelligent/paid enough to work out some kind of sorting algorithm to make queue 1 viable..???

[Lefty Lucy]

KinLuu, on 07 December 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

Haha!

Do you even believe what you write yourself?

Most people could not care less about competition. Especially the FPS crowd.

Huh, I think the burgeoning e-sports phenomenon would be evidence that many people *do* care about competition.

[Erik Jast]

Glory, on 07 December 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

Sometimes we don't have 8 people on, or we have somewhere between 8 and 16 on... we have to play SOMEhow! Do you hate us that much?

You know what you premades keep telling Pugs to do when there is a problem like that? Go on teamspeak, grab the people there who are apparently waiting in droves for a group. If it isn't hard for pugs to find a group, it shouldn't be hard for a group to fill in one or two slots.

[Twisted Power]

Banky, on 07 December 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

All that's changed is that the super-hardcore teams have left the queue. You can drop as 4 with 1 or 2 D-DCs, watch the rest of the PuGers scatter, pick a direction and then group march straight to the cap - game over. It's so easy, that if you have a solid group, you can deathball your way to the cap and not even bother taking cover.

Just do this in 8 mans and you will win most of the time as well. That is ECM gameplay.

[Lefty Lucy]

Erik Jast, on 07 December 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

You know what you premades keep telling Pugs to do when there is a problem like that? Go on teamspeak, grab the people there who are apparently waiting in droves for a group. If it isn't hard for pugs to find a group, it shouldn't be hard for a group to fill in one or two slots.

You forgot "it's a social game, you shouldn't be able to play without meeting new people."

[Wormrex]

Well since we're in the same sandbox for the time being (until better matchmaking ever sees digital light)

Please please please throw us some direction/instructions, announcing you're a premade makes people pay attention immediately and will generally listen (I said generally) to instructions given.

Stick together, Don't die, focus fire, aren't instructions. Those are so general to the point it is almost like saying, 'use nose to breath if that fails open mouth'.

Since you're the premade and takes up most of the team's power, I can tell you as a lone wolf it is at our best of interest to support your group, So do not send us off as cannon fodder, or at least tell us so we expect to die for a good reason. It leaves us in a very bad after taste when we ask before anyone could move, 'Plans?' "what should we do?' and all we get in radio silence.

Something like, "jenner scout grid 6 and fall back once contact is made" or, "dragon and hunchy hold the tunnel, call in for help' is simple enough and easy to follow instructions. Hell, even a 'focus fire on the target I tag, Everyone else don't tag.' is a painless method of calling targets without typing.

You will find the overall situation of pugging differentiate, and suddenly it isn't that bad. Save for the AFKs and suicidal maniacs. But hey, the maniacs usually turn suicide into a habit because of the lack of conducive environment in the first place.

[Erik Jast]

Lefty Lucy, on 07 December 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

You forgot "it's a social game, you shouldn't be able to play without meeting new people."

Good point, that is also true. It's funny how hypocritical premades are. They try to shove the 'This is a TEAM game, go on teamspeak and find people!!!!' But when the table is turned and they need to find people, suddenly, 'Oh, what do I do. I only have 6 or 7, I can't play in the team of 8 mode. Lemme go stomp some pugs, not because it's easymode and easy C-Bill farming, but it's because we can't queue due to not having a full team!

[Taryys]

When I say synch dropping, I mean having 2 lances end up on the same side, which has happend at least prior to this patch.
I do not know about now.

Synch dropping to go against each other is fine to me.

Although certain groups may take that as license to slaughter the pugs, and then duke it out, which is not cool, but there is not much that can be done about that.

Lefty Lucy, on 07 December 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

I can't see any way they'd disable sync dropping specifically, but they should absolutely:

1. Prioritize matching teams *against* each other in the random queue regardless of weight class
2. Give solo players a "no team" queue option.

[Viper69]

I drop maybe 4 matches in 8 mans a night. After getting frustrated I usually go back to single drops so I can get quick and dirty cash win or lose. When I want 12 minutes of terror and mayhem I launch in 8 mans.

[WhiteRabbit]

Wormrex, on 07 December 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

It leaves us in a very bad after taste when we ask before anyone could move, 'Plans?' "what should we do?' and all we get in radio silence.

still better than "kill the others" imho