288 replies to this topic

[N0MAD]

Thanks for the insults Bishop i must of hit a raw nerve, in future tho i assume you will remember my name.
Ya if we had had numbers we would of stayed in 8v8s but been only 2 well..
Streeter what imbalance do you refer to AND does this imbalance not affect both teams?.

Edited by N0MAD, 07 December 2012 - 03:47 AM.

[Dukov Nook]

Stargazer86, on 06 December 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

So you agree that the only useful mechs in 8-mans currently are either DDC's or Light Mechs equipped with ECM?

If this is what you think, you are dropping in the wrong 8-mans.

[Name115734]

I run in both 4 man and 8 man for two very different reasons.

I will play 8 man if I want an intense game with lots of preaction sniping, scouting, ECM fights etc. This kind of play can take a tole on the "fun" factor for me though. Even when we are winning, it can be stressful.

When I just want to sit back and shoot stuff, no stress, I switch out to 4 man, to relax.

I enjoy both, but in different ways.

[Thorn Hallis]

Once community warfare hits I expect even more premades breaking up into smaller groups intentionally to "ensure" victory for their faction.

[Brut4ce]

grayson marik, on 06 December 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

Hmm, there is one thing, that makes my mind boggle every time I stumble on a thread like this.

Why do you folks ask for automated matchmaking stuff for premade vs premade matches at all?
You can debate over automated settings until the end of world! - There will always be something ..bad.

In short:

- Automated matchmaking is and will always be exploitable.
- Automated matchmaking takes a LOT of development time, which is often neglected by the fact above
- Automated matchmaking will in no way be sufficient for organized tournaments and such.

Why don't we simply collect the drop options we would like to have and demand a kind of lobby system for teams?
for example I'd like to have options to :

- set a drop weight limit
- set a stock match, where players can use their own mechs but get served with a stock instance in game ( repair costs calculated against that stock variant then)
- set a drop pattern like AA, MMMM, LL
- 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 ...

We, the grouped up people, can do a much better matchmaking the manual way than PGI can ever possibly code.
PGI would spare a lot of programming time, if such a system would exist first. After this, gaming fun can be achieved by organized players for a long time to come.
So PGI than has a LOT of time to get the auto MM right for general gaming - if needed at all then .

For PUG matches, I think matchmaking is fine as it is for some time now, so again PGI would have the time to really do a fresh approach after a manual, lobby based, group matchmaking would be in place for a while.
( Not to consider the data, that could show the players favourite drop settings for such a fresh approach on automated matchmaking and so on...)


Long story short:

- Lobbies for the groups to enable organised gaming
- random matchmaking for the "fast matches during lunch break ( PUG'S)

For the zilionth time said and +100000000000000 from me That is the simplest way to form a good competitive community and enjoyable by almost ALL, no matter if the programmers even try to put the almighty hammer of THor as a weapon or the Klingon cloaking device on mechs. PPL in the community form the ground rules, bring the clans, corps or whatever together and against each other, role comes into play, and all is well. Just a short skim of past leagues is a sound proof of that. And well...if i am allowed to stretch it a bit here...with todays state of tech as i experience it, all these past lobby systems, which were no more than chat rooms, now could be integral to a GUI system with ppl running around eating virtual Cheeseburgers while they're at it

*cheers*

Edited by Brut4ce, 07 December 2012 - 03:52 AM.

[Kriestov]

People still need C-Bills. 4 Mans are the most efficent way of generating them.

[Sean von Steinike]

KinLuu, on 07 December 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

Currently the game offers to goals:

1. To master all mechs. The collectors goal.
2. To have fun.

Coincidentially, these two goals are best achieved by winning. Because you know, losing sucks.

And either way, it isn't much of a grind.

[WhiteRabbit]

come on guys... what did you excpect. Without a class/ton/whatever dependent matchmaker people might drop against a team with an advantage (tons, ecm, whatever).
Yes you can overcome those teams, but you'd need to better than average to do that (sometimes really good). Most people (even the so called premades) aren't better than average- hence the word average
it was forseeable that a lot of people would flood back into the pug-pool as soon as they got their *** spanked- that's nothing to be surpised about. ( The fact that it's quite hard to get and keep eight players to play with for more than a few matches isn't helping either)

btw. it's really funny to see some people, who were blaming pugs for their loses and expressed their utmost desire to get 8-man teams back no matter the cost (because they have excactly 8 friends ) now stating that they are back to the 4 man drops because they are more fun

[Redshift2k5]

I haven't had a chance to play any 8-mans yet

But I have still been having loads of fun in 4-man, including some very tight matches and hard losses.

[Bishop Steiner]

N0MAD, on 07 December 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

Thanks for the insults Bishop i must of hit a raw nerve, in future tho i assume you will remember my name.
Ya if we had had numbers we would of stayed in 8v8s but been only 2 well..
Streeter what imbalance do you refer to AND does this imbalance not affect both teams?.

you're damn straight.

You come in talking crap and insulting those of us ACTUALLY doing 8 man drops, when you just admitted you haven't been able to do them? In other words you have no frikking clue what the hell you are talking about. But you still think it's OK to com ein here insulting US, then are shocked when someone returns the favor? Wow.

There is a saying, that it is better to be THOUGHT a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. To bag on people about something you even admit you have not really experienced is the HEIGHT of foolishness. Sorry you don't have a group. When you DO get one, THEN feel free to critique the mindset and motivations of those of us who are doing so.\

Seriously, I have never had a beef with you until you decided to start smack talking. Now, well the ball is in your court, chief.

[Arcadian Xero]

I'm going to run 2/2/2/2 over this weekend, and I will ensure none of my group runs an ECM on their mech.

I will record these matches, and I will post them on youtube, and live stream them. We will win all of these matches as well. All of this just to prove that ECM is NOT the problem.

And we all know it really isn't. The problem is that the groups who were playing together pre-phase 1, and thought they were REALLY GOOD because they would roflstomp PUGs have stepped into the big leagues and are finding that they are actually really terrible. So of course like anyone who has ever been bad at any game in the ~28 years video games have been around they have to lash out at something, and blame something else for their losses.

This particular time it is "Whaaaa ECM is OP, Whaaaa." Just like it was "WHaaaa Gaussapults are OP" or "Streaks are OP" and going even further back, "My controller isn't working right." "You're cheating." "HAX!!"

Grow up kiddies. No excuses, play like a champion.

[Mr 144]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 December 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

you're damn straight.

You come in talking crap and insulting those of us ACTUALLY doing 8 man drops, when you just admitted you haven't been able to do them? In other words you have no frikking clue what the hell you are talking about. But you still think it's OK to com ein here insulting US, then are shocked when someone returns the favor? Wow.

There is a saying, that it is better to be THOUGHT a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. To bag on people about something you even admit you have not really experienced is the HEIGHT of foolishness. Sorry you don't have a group. When you DO get one, THEN feel free to critique the mindset and motivations of those of us who are doing so.\

Seriously, I have never had a beef with you until you decided to start smack talking. Now, well the ball is in your court, chief.

Yep, quoted one post above me in it's entirety It bears repeating. I have been TK'd countless times for my Pro-Pug, Anti-Premade posts....but I ACTUALLY PLAY all three facets of the current game...Solo...4-man...and recently 8-man. I call out BS when I see it. Nice job Bishop...You've shown me courtesy in-game, and agree or not, I can respect your opinions easily.

Mr 144
Edit, ninja'd....2 posts above me

Edited by Mr 144, 07 December 2012 - 05:22 AM.

[bobthebomb]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 December 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

Unless, in the Matchmaker an Atlas counts as 100 tons no matter what? A Hunchback is 50? I am thinking about how the drop was set on MechCommander 2. (Of course you didn't get to mess with individual mechs weight really anyhow, but that is a different thing). Each Mech, was considered a basic drop weight no matter what. So set a , oh, 500 ton drop limit, and if someone wants to run a "skinny" Atlas, that's fine.. but it still counts as 100 tons of the drop limit.

For the record, i spent the last 3 month asking tonnage limit .

[Corvus Ward]

SOOO MUCH CRYING >.<. I just play the game. If i feel like i am doing well in my 8 man drops I will stick with it. If I am not I may drop to 4 man. Its a personal choice. Dont like playing against 8 mans then dont. Dont like solo pugging? Then dont. Dont like playing 4 mans? Then dont. Dont like playing any of the game types? Then quit playing and go back to GW or something. Its a personal choice. Its like going to the doctor and saying "It hurts when I do this..." Well then stop doing it. The game is going through many phases in order to find a good balance. At least you now have the option to drop as an 8 man group. At least you have the option to drop in a 4 man group, or solo play. PUGs arent getting roled by 8 man premades anymore (with the exception of those that are timing there drops in 4 mans, but even then the chances of them landing on the same team are what? 30 / 70 ?) I understand some constructive critisism, but most of the posts a see a lot of the time are just strait complaining. Why would you insult anyone over something like this? Is it worth it? Really? So what if the guy wants to run a cheesy build? Its his right to do so. So what if the dude wants to try and drop into a 4 man so he can play against more pugs? The game has given him that option. Not everyone is cut out to be a superstar mechwarrior guru headshotting ace. 4 mans are a good balance between being rediculously skilled and coordinated and playing by yourself. You get to play witrh friends and at the same time be somewhat casual. If you go into some of these 8v8 matches they are really hard. I am a casual player that likes to play with friends. But I am not good enough to play on the 8 man teams, so guess what? I am going to run those 4 mans cause it is a nice balance between the 2. I win some, lose some. I have good hard fought matches, and then i have matches where my team gets rolled, and vise versa. All things considered, i would say that the state of the game now is much better than it was before this patch.

Edited by Ayato Ward, 07 December 2012 - 05:44 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Serevn, on 06 December 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Really? Sounds more like they got tired of the Assault mech or pure speed/ stealth capping teams. Mostly asssault.
Bad manners too make assumptions.
Seriously, its relatively hard to get through a mostly atlas with ECMs team, and while possible without running another assault team or speed/stealth team, it can get tiring match after match. And its not supposed to be like WoT where players are required to get the "good" tanks for pre-made matches if they want to win, or even just join a pre-made.
I haven't bothered with teams in a while though so I can't personally say, I mostly solo pugs.

No sometimes the "team" has RL get in the way of getting on line, so if we want to drop we have to 4 man PUG. Or if I'm the 9th man I will make a few PUG drops till someone has to deal with RL.

[Belorion]

House Jurai runs 4 man teams until we can form an 8. This puts about half my playing time as dropping with 4 mans. Not ideal by any means. I would rather be dropping with 8s. Esp. now that we are usually unopposed when dropping with 4. They either need to get mm working for team sizes 5 to 7, or match partial teams in the 8 man queue.

Matching total tonnage would be better than a tonnage limit. Then you will just start seeing specific comps that come in on that exact limit.

[Stone Wall]

I'm PUGing until the game is in later development.

1) there's no leagues
2) hardly any clans
3) no matchmaking
4) no chat lobby

[DogmeatX]

I find myself starting to wish there were two queues. One for premades (of any size 2-8) mix them together to make teams

One for all randoms. Maybe allow a group of 2 in the second queue, so long as each side has a 2 man group.

The pub/random matches should be just that, majority of the players being randoms, not in a group.

I suspect the dirty secret people don't want to admit is: they liked to pub stomp. They continue to do it and enjoy it. Easy win is prefered to hard loss vs some REALLY organised people. I know that will tick off someone or other but I think that's how it is.

The only way to get rid of this would be seperate queues for groups and seperate queue for lone wolves - so one queue has majority groups, other queue has majority randoms. Maybe a touch of cross sectioning to help even out/top up the sides.

The default team sizes (8) are simply too small for anything else. A group of 4 organised players on voice comms CAN and usually DOES make a noticeable splash, especially if the other side has no premades and is all randoms.

The odd time it doesn't work out is no counter to that.

Also had the lamest experience from some tryhard/protard a few days ago, group of 4 on my side with 4 atlas. Normally fine I don't think the system works but I'd not normally be ticked off about it. Except this group had some loudmouth jerk who was chatting in team chat "let the pugs tire themselves and die" and basically trash talking his side. Of course this led me to question him not being much of a team player with that kind of attitude (team players don't ***** out their side, even if it is half random people they're still on the same side!) at which point he continued to hurl insults - which not only made me laugh because this 4 man wannabe l33t group didn't even use voice comms and were trying to use team chat to coordinate between themselves (big fail lol there!)

I was in jenner and the other side had a 4 man premade atlas group also, probably on voice comms. So off I go to the boat on river map and spot for this jackass, holding target and doing well enough to get noticed by the enemy squad so they take long range pot shots at me (and then finally send one of their atlas after me!)

Of course the protard gets killed along with the entire rest of my side, so only me left and I go try to cap - can't do it in time, plus enemy atlas comes back for me and I STILL got an insult from this jerk (also some stupid comment about my using 6 smalls in jenner, when I was just trying something out).

It's idiots like that who literally think they are better than everyone else, and that anyone not in a premade group is rubbish, there's probably more than a few of those idiots around looking for cheap kills and easy wins and then whining when they get their arses handed to them by proper organised groups.

[Greers]

You need 8 people for 8 man-teams. That's not always the case. If we only have 7 people we drop 2 teams instead of waiting for an 8th to appear.

And: it's true, an 8-player team is much less relaxing than a 4-player team. If I got lot's of time I'm trying to get 8 friends together. If I just have an hour or so I'd rather drop solo than invest time into building an 8-player....

[The Exiled]

I had not played since the end of closed beta, came back yesterday to play a few games in 8 man premades with some players i knew from STO, it was a lot of fun, pops were quite quick. We ran ramdom mechs, hell i was in a stock Atlas for a few games, we won 12/3 we only lost massively to Blasing something they were really good. Other than that the teams were a bit meh considering we had no real plan and just worked off the cuff. With all the talk i remember from before i expected the competition to be better and that we would lose more until we gained experience as a team.

If that is the general norm then it is no surprise they hide back in the pug league, just as i said many months ago, beating pugs with an 8 man premade was no indication that they were good and as soon as they have to face other premades often they will slope off. Wont be long before the 8 man premade is just a few hard core teams waiting for a pop.