288 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Lefty Lucy, on 07 December 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

I'd rather see every mech and weight class have a valid role in the game, than some sort of a hamfisted "you have to bring two mediums because we say so" approach. People should be able to play a medium competitively because it brings some qualities to the battlefield that the other classes do not.

Everything DOES have it's place...

Except when you can modify things to what you want... then it becomes who brings the biggest guns and who has the most armor.

THERE ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT, HAS TO BE SOME FORM OF LIMITATION ON DROPS.

it's that simple, because it's Human Nature that drives the arms race... everyone wants to pilot the "biggest and best" and when you're against a team of 5 atlas 3 jenners, if you're not running the same, you're screwed. simple as that if you're a more diverse group.

Humans Min-Max, it's our nature it seems, take the biggest and the best, of the fastest and the hardest to hit, ect ect... So we've got 100 ton behemoth's slugging it out, and light mech dogfights, ECM jamming by the Atlai and everything else is just a clusterscrew.

If we [the community] does not have clearly defined rules, then the system will be abused far worse than if there are rules governing what can be abused. Make sense?

It's one thing to function within "Here's all the mechs, have at it" and another to function within "you can have 2 of each weightclass on your team" and yet another to have "you have 500 tons to work with.

Each of those options are exploitable in some way, and competative teams, will abuse the HELL out of "here's everything" so now we have two choices, the tonnage limit and the Weightclass limit. Going by tonnage allows for stuff like "I'm bringing an Atlas, it's fully armored, and armed with weapons that cause it to weigh only 50 tons so it's legal!" Going by Weightclass means that, while you might take a Phract, I may take a Cat or a Kat, or a Dragon...

Really since we don't have Battle Value in yet, Weightclass limits are the best way to go.

Ontop of that, classic "Battletech" Matches were in the old days, limited by either tonnage of "stock" units, or "bring a lance of 1 of each weightclass"

I know in my CBT games, I tend to limit my players to 1 of each weightclass for their 4 mech lance. and it usually balances fairly well [then again I only allow stock configs.]

Edited by Jade Kitsune, 07 December 2012 - 12:16 AM.

[Ursh]

random51, on 06 December 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

I prefer 4-man simply for reduced downtime and more variety. This is a bit of an exaggeration but 8-man feels like 5-10 minutes between matches of who can drop with the most D-DCs while 4-man you can still run/see anything and you don't have to wait for 7 other people to get their thumb out and ready up.

Do your mechlab/pilotlab on your own time, don't waste the time of an 8-man while you tweak percentage points. I get my mech where I want it to be BEFORE I look for a group. Unfortunately I'm one of few people that considerate of other people's time.

Quoted for truth. I set up at least two mechs, normally three, before I look for a group. Depending on what role the group needs, I'm good to go immediately, and I don't risk crashing in the mech lab, further slowing the group down.

[Wispsy]

Some times I pug and people think I am in a 4man because I claim their lives.
Sometimes I am not with 8 people I want to play with

[shabowie]

Are you guys sure you aren't just seeing something you want to see?

Personally I play 8 mans when I have 8 good players available and otherwise 4 mans.

I doubt many players are not playing 8 mans when they can, even though it has serious problems.

Edited by shabowie, 07 December 2012 - 12:20 AM.

[Ilwrath]

So the failed match making from the devs results in horrid cheese builds for the 8vs8 people?

What a surprise.

And now they are back to pollute the pub games, pub games where the devs still has not marked who is team up and not like any devs with a clue would have done.

The failure is massive. I could take all the usual garbage that follows the **** free to pay model
but that needs a working, and fair matched, game as a foundation. Like WoT. World of Tanks works if you want to pub. This game is broken and it only get worse. I guess its time to try check out hawken and/or PS2. Sadly they are both free to pay but maybe they are more fun than this game?

I remember when folks wanted their founder status refunded. Right now I don't remember why but it was close before open beta. I kinda regret that I did not do that then. This is Hi-Rez class developing and I should have seen it coming.

Edited by Ilwrath, 07 December 2012 - 12:23 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Ilwrath, on 07 December 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

So the failed match making from the devs results in horrid cheese builds for the 8vs8 people?

What a surprise.

And now they are back to pollute the pub games, pub games where the devs still has not marked who is team up and not like any devs with a clue would have done.

The failure is massive. I could take all the usual garbage that follows the **** free to pay model
but that needs a working, and fair matched, game as a foundation. Like WoT. World of Tanks works if you want to pub. This game is broken and it only get worse. I guess its time to try check out hawken and/or PS2. Sadly they are both free to pay but maybe they are more fun than this game?

I remember when folks wanted their founder status refunded. Right now I don't remember why but it was close before open beta. I kinda regret that I did not do that then. This is Hi-Rez class developing and I should have seen it coming.

I've played both Hawken and PS2...

PS2 has a worse New User experience than MWO

And Haken is a poor subistiute.

I'm stuck for better or worse, with MWO for life.

[Fooooo]

grayson marik, on 06 December 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

....SNIP!!......

Long story short:

- Lobbies for the groups to enable organised gaming
- random matchmaking for the "fast matches during lunch break ( PUG'S)

PGI has stated that they hope to be able to do a lobby system pretty much like you explained down the line. (I'd say plans + bits of code would probably already be there if that was true.......)

Right now phase 3 has to go in first etc, then they probably will start looking at putting in the lobby system......tho they haven't exactly said "yes we are doing it" tho.....sooo........

[Ilwrath]

Jade Kitsune, on 07 December 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

I've played both Hawken and PS2...

PS2 has a worse New User experience than MWO

And Haken is a poor subistiute.

I'm stuck for better or worse, with MWO for life.

Well they cost zero to try besides the time to download. And WoT got upgraded with physics. May even be worth it to try that again as my account with all its tanks is still there.

I would really prefer to drive some mechs in this game because its different and "fresh" but I don't want to
fight against rigged teams. As a minimum I want to see who is teamed up so I can plan what to do.

I could deal with a couple of 3-man groups in WoT pub games without problems. Here you have a hard time dealing with just one because its 50% of the enemy team. And not only do you have to fight against teamed up people, you have to fight low fps, horrid netcode and a truckload of other bugs.

And some people wonder why this game has low population?

Edit; this is a lot of what some would call whine but I must say that the way this game is developing
makes no sense at all. I mean, what the **** is this?

Edited by Ilwrath, 07 December 2012 - 12:40 AM.

[KinLuu]

This game is about grinding.

Grinding can be done best in 4s (or synced double 4s), by farming PUGs.

Nothing surprising to see here.

[Ilwrath]

KinLuu, on 07 December 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

This game is about grinding.

Grinding can be done best in 4s (or synced double 4s), by farming PUGs.

Nothing surprising to see here.

But what is the purpose of that grind? Games used to be played for fun. I remember playing Tribes when it got out. It was fun playing it, messing around, and sometimes doing well. It was fun to play and the reward was either killing lots of enemies or/and winning the round with your team. Doing cheese builds in 8 vs 8 is like cheating in a single player game. Its pointless and downright stupid. Teaming up against pubs is the same. What is the challenge? Games without a challenge are pointless.

Grinding is like work. Why the **** does people grind in games instead of getting a second job? Grinding makes sense if you need to do it to pass some kind of barrier in a free to pay game but all the closed beta players should have gotten whatever favourite mech they need long time ago. Why do they feel the need to **** up the pub game with their grinding?

I guess I can say that this community really deserves this game and the state it is in right now.

Edited by Ilwrath, 07 December 2012 - 12:54 AM.

[Vexel]

Sync droppers should be taken out the back and kicked in the crotch, imo. Not a fan of that tactic, it goes against the spirit of the game.

8v8 is alright, but I prefer 2x4v2x4, less stressful (and not cheesy). Might try 8v8 more if I had a consistent group to play with, but otherwise meh, I'll stick with me and my friend in 2x4v2x4.

Also, i think its kind of unreasonable to expect constant success in 8v8s in what is essentially in many cases guys just walking in off the street grouping together (TS groups), you don't know anything about each others playstyle or skill level, or have that instinctual meshing a group that has worked together for a time has.

Edited by Vexel, 07 December 2012 - 01:10 AM.

[Stoicblitzer]

Jacmac, on 06 December 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Yes, there are a lot of 8-mans breaking up and going back to 4-mans. Saw it on the Teamspeak servers, big-time tonight. I think many players aren't happy with being basically forced out of their favorite mech and into buying an Atlas D-DC they don't want to play all of the time or a Commando, Raven, Cicada they simply don't like.

This guy is absolutely right. You're basically forced to run at least 6 Assault/Heavy and 2 Lights. I was having fun until I realized the formula for success. I got bored running my DDC or 2D all the time. I wanted to use level other mechs but it was frowned on to not have at least 5 ECMs. Sure you come across a few teams that are balanced but they get rocked. Sometimes you'll even come across 4+ gauss cats and those are difficult matches.There definitely needs to be some sort of BV system put in place.

[Sean von Steinike]

KinLuu, on 07 December 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

This game is about grinding.

Grinding can be done best in 4s (or synced double 4s), by farming PUGs.

Nothing surprising to see here.

Only for those that don't like the game. The rest of us enjoy, win or loose, and there is little to grind at all.

[Parnage Winters]

It's nice how you go from PGI being at fault then to blaming the players around you. I think you might need to stick off the forums for a few days, take a break you seem a tad too invested and it's making you jaded.

8v8's are not perfect, but it's a temporary solution that we have to deal with as was outlined by the team awhile ago. You'll manage and survive just like you managed to survive being limited to 4 man premades.

[Kobold]

Sean von Steinike, on 07 December 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

Only for those that don't like the game. The rest of us enjoy, win or loose, and there is little to grind at all.

Indeed. If the game is a a "grind" to you, then stop playing. Find something you enjoy.

[KinLuu]

Sean von Steinike, on 07 December 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

Only for those that don't like the game. The rest of us enjoy, win or loose, and there is little to grind at all.

Currently the game offers to goals:

1. To master all mechs. The collectors goal.
2. To have fun.

Coincidentially, these two goals are best achieved by winning. Because you know, losing sucks.

[Hoshi Toranaga]

8 Man actually is no challenge as you have 2 options:

Option 1:
You bring 6 Atlas D-DC with ECM and 2 Cicadas with ECM or close to that setup and slug it out in a major slugfest or take podshots until the 15min are over.

Option 2:
You do not bring the above and pray your enemy does not too (I think 1 in 10 drops you can have a decent fight like this) if the enemy brings Option 1 you will get annihilated, no matter how good you play (if the enemy is not stupid and suicides mechs... saw that one once...).

So 8 Man is pretty boring and ECM is ruling the field.
As I personally dislike both viable Mechs (Atlas and Cicada) and am not a fan of driving lights... options get pretty thin. I still play 8s, but my patience is getting thin and I might drop to 4s again. Having 4 viable Mech options out of the many is not a huge burner to play this game.

[Ghogiel]

Ilwrath, on 07 December 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

But what is the purpose of that grind?

space bucks

Quote

Doing cheese builds in 8 vs 8 is like cheating in a single player game. Its pointless and downright stupid. Teaming up against pubs is the same. What is the challenge? Games without a challenge are pointless.

Of all previous mechwarrior games multiplayer experiences cheese builds were the staple. Ain't cheating, it's mechwarrior.

[Alexandrix]

KinLuu, on 07 December 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

Currently the game offers to goals:

1. To master all mechs. The collectors goal.
2. To have fun.

Coincidentially, these two goals are best achieved by winning. Because you know, losing sucks.

perhaps i'm in the minority here,but I'd much rather lose a hard fought,even game...and have fun doing so,than grind my way through endless pugstomp snooze fest.But that's just me.

[Ricama]

Jacmac, on 06 December 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Yes, there are a lot of 8-mans breaking up and going back to 4-mans. Saw it on the Teamspeak servers, big-time tonight. I think many players aren't happy with being basically forced out of their favorite mech and into buying an Atlas D-DC they don't want to play all of the time or a Commando, Raven, Cicada they simply don't like.

I am in the apparently unique position of actually liking my d-dc before I found out it was going to be an ECM mech. I have not had the opportunity to play 8 mans much yet but what I played was fun. Didn't run into a full ninja atlas group yet but it's a small sample size.