219 replies to this topic

[ElLocoMarko]

I asked support...
"Every once and a while we cleanup the stickies. We resticky those the public demands to have back up and which continue to hold relevant information"

So RE-STICKY please!

[Deathlike]

The only question I have is.. what determines a mech to be exposed in the first place? How much damage must be absorbed in that section to be exposed?

That's kinda relevant to the issue with mgs and boosted crits. If you had to reduce the armor by 50 or 75% to be exposed... it would be important to know.

It's the kind of thing you need to know, before putting on a PPC/ERPPC and then stuffing the rest of the Cic-2A or Raven-4X with the "revised" mgs to be remotely useful...

[Selfish]

Deathlike, on 22 February 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

The only question I have is.. what determines a mech to be exposed in the first place? How much damage must be absorbed in that section to be exposed?

That's kinda relevant to the issue with mgs and boosted crits. If you had to reduce the armor by 50 or 75% to be exposed... it would be important to know.

It's the kind of thing you need to know, before putting on a PPC/ERPPC and then stuffing the rest of the Cic-2A or Raven-4X with the "revised" mgs to be remotely useful...

Components are exposed when armor is no longer present. On your paper doll, Armor is the outline around mech components (like arms/legs/head/torsos). If the ring is depleted and the inner most part of that component is taking damage then you're experiencing crit rolls in those areas. All components have a universally identified internal HP. It's the maximum possible armor / 2. The head is the only exception, which has 15 internal HP with 18 maximum armor on all mechs. While you can change the armor amount on each component, the internal HP will always be the same for each chassis.

Tldr; Crits happen when the armor is gone, and I'm long winded.

Edited by Selfish, 22 February 2013 - 02:02 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Here`s an info straight from Thomas Dziegielewski:

Quote

When a ammo module becomes disabled it has a 10% chance of exploding.


So first the ammo module has to be crit'ed and then it can explode 10% of the time.

What makes it a devastating blow is that when 1 starts exploding it will usually take the others in that component with it.

Edited by Kmieciu, 22 February 2013 - 11:53 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Thontor, on 22 February 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

huh, only 10% chance? Figured it would be higher than that..

That makes crit-seeking even more useless... unless it`s a gauss rifle.

[Selfish]

Kmieciu, on 22 February 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

Here`s an info straight from Thomas Dziegielewski:

That's very interesting, where'd you find it?

[Selfish]

Just a friendly bump. I added small section towards the bottom discussing the new crit seeking weapons, but I plan to supplement it with more discussion. I cleaned up some sections that had older data/assumptions, but there's probably some still hiding.

I'm also working on a graph to help visualize the crit system quantitatively, but I'm numbers challenged/will take my time. I also want to create a video describing the crit process, but that is a long term thing.

[Splinters]

Kmieciu, on 22 February 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

That makes crit-seeking even more useless... unless it`s a gauss rifle.

Yes and no, it could be that there is a 10% chance of ammo explosion without doing the requisite 10 crit damage to destroy the item entirely. If the ammo is completely destroyed (10 crits) it could be either guaranteed explosion or still a 10% chance to pop.

In some ways clarification will be needed from the devs to fully understand what this "10%" really means.

Always good to bump this topic for any new players.

-S

[Selfish]

Splinters, on 01 March 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

In some ways clarification will be needed from the devs to fully understand what this "10%" really means.

Always good to bump this topic for any new players.

-S

Thanks for the bump! And yes, clarification is definitely needed. I'm going to try and do some awkward testing of concepts/theory. Namely the ability to crit C.A.S.E., but now that ammo is in question that's on the plate too. Both would have required critting ammo to see if the C.A.S.E. had been critted, but I should be able to kill two birds with one stone as long as I can stomach potentially killing a drop-friend. I was planning on having an atlas fit an unarmored side torso with C.A.S.E to be struck first, and then an unarmored arm with all ammo. If the explosion travels through to the CT then C.A.S.E. can be critted. Now I may need to have them unarmor a leg and fill that with ammo. I may need to do that several times if the 10% bit holds true. I can't imagine the flames we're going to get. Oh well. I've tried Ask the Devs and they wouldn't answer. Time to potentially clock some teamkills.

You made me want to do some work tonight. Came up with this. It's the beginnings of my crit comparisons, and part of it I owe to Flun from Creddit--who posted a similar article on reddit focused on MG's. I have what I believe is the basic data, but I might need to delve a bit deeper into some foreign statistics to figure out how to go about finding what I want to know. I don't pretend to be a number wizard.

Otherwise, simple crit DPS is found in a graph at the bottom, and the workings of time to crit per item HP for each weapon's average is available. It's pretty interesting stuff. The AC/20 ranks surprisingly well (high burst, can crit for 20-40-60), and the LB10-X is the top dog. Keep in mind that many of the more average critseekers can be stacked en masse. 3 tons of MG investment is 4 MG's + 1 ton of ammo for a whopping ~20CDPS! I'm almost ready to eat my words on the AC/10 and PPC being efficient crit-seekers.

Also on the list (optimistically) I'd like to find a way to calculate the average of destroying a target item before destroying the target component. I'd honestly like to know what weapons are best at crit-seeking low HP components, or if there's even a noticeable difference.

[Selfish]

Update bump. I've revised the original crit flow chart and added two new charts to the newer crit discussion section (MG's effectiveness en masse & Avg. Crit DPS of all weapons sans lasers/srms).

[Kmieciu]

After yesterday's patch the machineguns are partially fixed:

@MachineGun
critDamMult="12.5" critChanceIncrease="0.14,0.8,0.03"

That means that a single MG has 12,25 Crit DPS.

As for the LB10-X:

@LB10-XAC
critDamMulti="2.0" critChanceIncrease ="0.14,0.08,0.03"

There is still an error in the parameter name, so I doubt the damage multiplayer works at all. That brings average crit DPS to 4,04

[Selfish]

Kmieciu, on 06 March 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

After yesterday's patch the machineguns are partially fixed:

@MachineGun
critDamMult="12.5" critChanceIncrease="0.14,0.8,0.03"

That means that a single MG has 12,25 Crit DPS.

As for the LB10-X:

@LB10-XAC
critDamMulti="2.0" critChanceIncrease ="0.14,0.08,0.03"

There is still an error in the parameter name, so I doubt the damage multiplayer works at all. That brings average crit DPS to 4,04

Great catch. They just seem to be mixing up the Multipliers and names all over. Darn spreadsheets! I set up my charts on the theoretical numbers, so I'll just leave it that way until they fix them and add in the disclaimer stating they aren't performing up to par.

[Kmieciu]

According to the stats, in one match I did 169 damage with 14 hits with LBX10. 12 damage per hit.

But, in another match i did 167 damage with 7 hits from a Gauss Rifle. 23,8 damage per hit.

Either the stats are inaccurate, or they also count critical item damage.

For comparison: medium laser: 6610 damage 2228 hits = 2,96 damage per hit.

Edited by Kmieciu, 08 March 2013 - 01:51 AM.

[Selfish]

Kmieciu, on 08 March 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

According to the stats, in one match I did 169 damage with 14 hits with LBX10. 12 damage per hit.

But, in another match i did 167 damage with 7 hits from a Gauss Rifle. 23,8 damage per hit.

Either the stats are inaccurate, or they also count critical item damage.

For comparison: medium laser: 6610 damage 2228 hits = 2,96 damage per hit.

I've run into the same thing myself. My Mlas have done, on average, 5.833 damage per shot. It's interesting to say the least.

[Deathlike]

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1982956

Quote

Ya very fragile it has a 90% chance of detonating if it receives a critical hit. And now with the MachineGun/Flamer/LBX crit buff it should happen all over the place.

EDIT : Not when it just receives a critical but rather when it is disabled due to criticals.

Oh never mind, that's a reference to gauss rifles.

Edited by Deathlike, 08 March 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[Deathlike]

I guess this thread will do for my question...

With engines that can add a HS (like the 275 engines and above), are these crits factored anywhere and/or can they be blown up?

Edited by Deathlike, 12 March 2013 - 10:14 PM.

[Deathlike]

Hmmm... indestructible HS... I wonder if that's OPed or not.

[Kmieciu]

I prefer to use heatsinks as a buffer for ammo and weapons. I only put them inside the engine if I run out of critical slots.

[MustrumRidcully]

Deathlike, on 12 March 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

Hmmm... indestructible HS... I wonder if that's OPed or not.

It is interesting to note that those 10 Double Heat Sinks from the engine that grant us the +2 to capacity and dissipation are the ones so well protected, not the Poor Dubs installed outside.

[Deathlike]

MustrumRidcully, on 12 March 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

It is interesting to note that those 10 Double Heat Sinks from the engine that grant us the +2 to capacity and dissipation are the ones so well protected, not the Poor Dubs installed outside.

I just recently got a "Heat Sink Destroyed" message when I was in a Splatcat with a DHS in the engine (that's how I build them, feel free to laugh at it). Destroying the engine crit does seem to remove the extra HS stored within it. That's about it for now.