226 replies to this topic

[Owl Cutter]

There are double-blind rules. Some people use them.

Streiger, what exactly do you mean by "work at the optimum?" I am asking because I am picking up the scent of an insight I never would have thought of on my own; the first guess I can think of is something about "powergaming," but I imagine you'd use that term in that case, or something else similarly well-known such as "munchy." The Hellstar is also not a great example IMO since it loses an eighth of its firepower while moving when that could be remedied so easily while also greatly improving the bang-for-BV... Is it something about how it's always easy to use those 'mechs optimally- as opposed to the Stalker, which requires more understanding and correct choices in tough decisions to use optimally?

[Toothman]

Some great choices. For me its the cataphract. Its just so ugly to me.

[Slepnir]

I think ther is much hatred for the urbi simply because it is a mech designed to fight infantry in a city and not other mechs.

In reality there are a bunch of mechs that may perform ok or even well that make my list of shame simply based on astetics-
.mackie
.imp(the urbis big brother
.stalker
.balius
.kintaro
.baboon

[Adridos]

Protomechs. End of discussion.

[WraithTR1]

Have to go with the Jackrabbit. Have had good luck with Urbanmechs and Chargers in close environments using hidden unit rules or in double blind games.

[Pvt Dancer]

For every dog mech you can find in the 3025 TRO, the reverse is true in every book after that.

[Youngblood]

Any Clan assault 'Mech with a top speed of 64kph or less (without MASC), and a maximum range of more than 450 meters (15 hexes).

Those aren't actually 'Mechs, they're munchkin bunkers.

EDIT: And now that I think of them, the Night Gyr and Nova Cat should belong in this category too.

Edited by Youngblood, 15 May 2012 - 04:05 AM.

[Dalfsson]

from what i'm seeing in your posts here Chris, i get the idea that you think that the only variant of the URBANmech there is, is armed with a AC10. the model most of us here are talking about for being good in URBAN combat is the AC20 model. hide in a alley while your lancemates lure that atlas past you, blast him in the back with the AC20, and duck into the alley on the other side of the street. when the atlas turns to slap you down, your lancemates come in and chew on his back some more.

Christopher Dayson, on 15 May 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

... Why some people persist in thinking 2/3 movement is /EVER/ a good thing is just beyond me. Remove the AC 10, give it a Large Laser. Use saved weight to give it 6/9/6 movement with same armor and add a medium laser. Then it's become good, then it can actually flank people and be a credible threat.

How /anyone/ would let something as slow as a 2/3/2 get behind them is beyond me, infantile grasp of tactics.

[Howling Mad Murdock]

I thought the Charger was a Scout Mech designed to be quick and well armoured so able to spot the enemy and get out without be torn to shreds.... and although I agree it's weaponry is rather poor (short range lasers) doesn't it also have a Melee attack... which is kind of cool

[Sassori]

Dalfsson, on 15 May 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

from what i'm seeing in your posts here Chris, i get the idea that you think that the only variant of the URBANmech there is, is armed with a AC10. the model most of us here are talking about for being good in URBAN combat is the AC20 model. hide in a alley while your lancemates lure that atlas past you, blast him in the back with the AC20, and duck into the alley on the other side of the street. when the atlas turns to slap you down, your lancemates come in and chew on his back some more.

What, the variant that has even LESS armor so it is easily killed by infantry?

The variant that has even less range so that it has even more issues closing in on the enemy?

The variant that has a wopping 5 shots?

Sorry how is that thing remotely good again?

[Hanged Man]

Definitely the original Rifleman specs, back when it was an anti-aircraft platform with no aircraft to shoot. It's like a walking advertisement for CASE.

[Ursus_Spiritus]

Der Kommissar, on 14 May 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

The Charger at least has a niche as a melee brawler. Players tend to ignore it until it's kicking your leg off. Plus, there are two excellent variants/mechs built on the Charger chassis.

The Jackrabbit, on the other hand, is basically worthless.

Sniping infantry...???

[Karl Streiger]

Christopher Dayson, on 15 May 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

How /anyone/ would let something as slow as a 2/3/2 get behind them is beyond me, infantile grasp of tactics.

Ever fought in Urban Territory on the Table? Have you ever seen your fast mech skidding...have you ever seen your mech moving 6/9...falling and skidding in a house?
The problem is in urban territory mechs must watch every step, move to fast and the unit falls down. Considering that 2/3 is the only movement that could be used without danger why to use a fast light mech when a slow one get the same performance.

Next why the AC 10 vs a Large Laser... question is easy...infantry...the AC 10 is able to deal with infantry the large laser has no chance.
The UrbanMech isn't the best combat unit you can send in a city but it is the only mech you can afford to get lost.
You don't want to send a Atlas into a city...hidden Hetzer, hidden SRM (inferno) infantry...skidding...heck there is few territory that is so dangerous

[Sassori]

Uhhh AC 10 still sucks against infantry. It does /1/ point of damage to infantry. 1. 2 if it's an LB10X. That's not good vs infantry. It's just not.

I've played plenty of urban maps. I've seen plenty of jump jets being awesome and 6/9/6 (Note: the third 6 there? That's jump jets) is WAY BETTER than 2/3/2 in EVERY SITUATION.

If you skid and fall over that's cuz you tried to move to fast and turn when you should have just jump jetted over.

Moving 2/3 is NEVER better than 6/9/6 cuz the 6/9/6 can choose to move 2/3 if they want to and still not get slaughtered by being slow as hell.

An Atlas in a city just tromps right through buildings, it's got rear firing lasers (And yes, they do work in TT just fine) that do the same damage as an Urbanmech's AC-10 when combined. It's got arms it can swing into different firing arcs, oh and it's got an AC-20 too.

If the Urbanmech had 6/9/6 movement then it might actually have the mobility to outflank an Atlas and get into it's back, right now it just cannot. It fails. In every way.

[OJ191]

Zakatak, on 14 May 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

Anything beginning with "Ost..." makes me puke. Also, that golf ball launcher they call Blitzkrieg.

EDIT @ above: Raven, Bushwacker, Uziel, Sunder, Blackhawk KU, Owens, Avatar? You hate them all? Post-3039 IS mechs are my absolute favorite!

Agreed. Uziel was basically my favourite mech ever.

Edited by OJ191, 15 May 2012 - 08:59 AM.

[Flpngboy]

I'm just enjoing the show on this topic

[Sneak]

If you sling mud at the CGR, I am FORCED to bring up the CGR-1A5, which is actually a damned nice machine.. Atleast in a city. Wouldent want to bring it out of cover..

[neodym]

this is tough one,I really dont like the trashcan but I have to vote charger since it will be raped by urban mech and its assault wheres urban isnt even heaviest light class

[Sneak]

neodym, on 15 May 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

this is tough one,I really dont like the trashcan but I have to vote charger since it will be raped by urban mech and its assault wheres urban isnt even heaviest light class

We're speaking -1L here. I promise you that no urbie will rape the -1A5.

[Vexgrave Lars]

The crappy ugly mechs know who they are.. and they don't need to be called out by name. How far FD is allowed to go to fix them is the only question I have. I hope its very very liberal.

My biggest hate.. is when a great weapons configuration, gets saddled with an ugly visual design.