107 replies to this topic

[Helbourne]

Weren't the LAMs in TT 'ripped off' from Macross or some other anime. I remember there were only a few of them. They were not a very good battlemech or aerospace fighter, I do remember that. Too much space and weight was taken up for their abilty to transform for my liking. Sure they were fast but that was there only real advantage if I remember correctly. I just never used them in the TT games cause I always wanted more weapons and armor than they could carry.

[JohnnyWayne]

EnigmaNL, on 14 December 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

Still looks like a dude in a suit of armor with wings.

And it has a pe nis ... Oo

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 14 December 2012 - 06:57 AM.

[Ilwrath]

THE Leo, on 14 December 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Zone of the Enders. "nuff said.

I am sorry but that really looks like a sissy mech. I would not be surprised if "something" (is it male or female?) with pastel colored and crazy hair popped out of cockpit.

[Heeden]

JohnnyWayne, on 14 December 2012 - 06:57 AM, said:

And it has a pe nis ... Oo

That's the cockpit. I wish I was joking.

Edited by Heeden, 14 December 2012 - 07:30 AM.

[Heeden]

Helbourne, on 14 December 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

Weren't the LAMs in TT 'ripped off' from Macross or some other anime. I remember there were only a few of them. They were not a very good battlemech or aerospace fighter, I do remember that. Too much space and weight was taken up for their abilty to transform for my liking. Sure they were fast but that was there only real advantage if I remember correctly. I just never used them in the TT games cause I always wanted more weapons and armor than they could carry.

Yeah, to date the Veritech fighter remains pretty much my favourite mecha of all time, next to the Cyclone bike from Robotech series 3 (Genesis Climber MOSPEADA.)

[Draxtier]

There are mechs in Mechwarrior.
There are mechs in the various gundam anime and games.

NONE OF THE BATTLEMECHS IN MECHWARRIOR ARE GUNDAMS
MECHWARRIOR IS NOT A GUNDAM SERIES

Edited by Draxtier, 14 December 2012 - 08:11 AM.

[jakucha]

EnigmaNL, on 14 December 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

Call me narrow-minded but I also hate Japanese 'mech design (and anime in general).

Also when I google for gundam all I find are robots looking like big suits of armor in strange poses.

Show us some cool realistic looking Japanese 'mechs.

P.s. I'm having quite a good time

Saying you hate Japanese mech design across the board because you dislike Gundam mecha is like saying you hate water because you dislike the taste of orange juice. The Macross series have tons of interesting designs, quite a few of which Mechwarrior used or have designs based off of.

Armored Trooper Votoms is another cool one, in which mechs aren't seemingly magical suits, they're just machines and have their place like tanks:




Blue Gender has an honorable mention, but pretty much all of their mech combat is against giant bugs. Anyway, comes down to opinion ultimately which isn't worth arguing over.

Edited by jakucha, 14 December 2012 - 08:43 AM.

[Voridan Atreides]

Ilwrath, on 14 December 2012 - 02:48 AM, said:

Typical "gundam" design. Don't really have to say more...

Whaaaat the frick is that supposed to be?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!

[JohnnyWayne]

Heeden, on 14 December 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

That's the cockpit. I wish I was joking.

I know, I heared they though it'd be funny because they shortened cockpit with co ck Oo

Well then, at least we have determined its sex. xD

Voridan Atreides, on 14 December 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

Whaaaat the frick is that supposed to be?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!

Well, maybe they had something to compensate... :S

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 14 December 2012 - 10:37 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

jakucha, on 14 December 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

Saying you hate Japanese mech design across the board because you dislike Gundam mecha is like saying you hate water because you dislike the taste of orange juice. The Macross series have tons of interesting designs, quite a few of which Mechwarrior used or have designs based off of.

Armored Trooper Votoms is another cool one, in which mechs aren't seemingly magical suits, they're just machines and have their place like tanks:




Blue Gender has an honorable mention, but pretty much all of their mech combat is against giant bugs. Anyway, comes down to opinion ultimately which isn't worth arguing over.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that Dream Pod 9 (a(nother) Canadian company) modeled the eponymous mecha of Heavy Gear (which was released in 1994) on Votoms' "Armored Trooper" units (whose parent series was released in 1983)...

Voridan Atreides, on 14 December 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

Whaaaat the frick is that supposed to be?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!

Answered in my previous post...

[steelblueskies]

if you are calling it mecha or referring to them as mechs, that is battletechs' influence. elsewhere and/or prior to bt you'd be hunting for robots, or a specific titles' designation. there's an element of first come first serve to naming as well. much like scanning a document is digitizing instead of digitalizing because the application of digitalis in medicine already consumed the term digitalize. robot designs (and the aforementioned article does this to boot) and a further distinguishment of terms being needed, robot was used, mech or mecha become commonplace, and got subsumed to cover the alternate set, even if in so doing it increased inaccuracy in application between the western world and the eastern world.

functionally if trying to dig up r&d papers on the subjects involved in reality it's exorobotics, the mechatronics side of things tends towards leading into non wearable remotely operated or autonomous systems generally.(think designing physical machines for a movie to stand in for cg or an actor in a suit, or an moving dino exhibit at a museum).

Edited by steelblueskies, 14 December 2012 - 11:22 AM.

[a rabid chihuahua]

Look the gundam stuff can be fun to watch and get into once in a while, but the mechwarrior franchise has been around for 3-4 decades with a rich history, ever evolving expanded universe and not to knock the japanimation side,but if you look at almost every gundam style cartoon or any japanese cartoon for that matter it's the same story and plot with a new line up of mechs. please lead off with the next brooding ,emo wann-a-be ,hero. Battletech on the other hand uses tactics and not CoD movements. It's a more of a thinking and team work game. and the "slower" pace makes for more interesting battles also. IPO

[SpiralRazor]

It certainly seems more Epic on a sense of Scale then the other Franchises.

[pied]

Bias results are bias! I <3 Mechwarrior too though.

[dF0X]

pied, on 14 December 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Bias results are bias! I &lt;3 Mechwarrior too though.

Biased. The word you are looking for is called biased. Biased not bias.

A biased person is influenced by bias.

[EXSODER]

JohnnyWayne, on 13 December 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

Gotta hate these crying children that "~don't want to kill anyone Q.Q~" IN A ******* WARMACHINE OF FIRE AND DEATH GRRRR...

Not sure if this is something that was in Gundam or something...
Still, though, I myself don't glorify death. I would actually prefer not to kill anyone if possible.
People who've been with BT even before the MW moniker know that most 'Mech pilots eject before their 'Mechs explode. Even if they didn't, it wouldn't always be fatal - contrary to popular belief, fusion engines do not make gigantic explosions, even though there's sometimes an exception. Even when it rarely does, it isn't from the engine itself, per se.

"Fusion reactors do occasionally die in spectacular manners. But most of the time, the fireworks are not actually from an exploding reactor. What typically happens is that some heavy weapon manages to puncture the reactor itself. Since the reactor interior is a vacuum, air would get sucked in and mix with the plasma, stopping the fusion reaction. Kilograms of cold air mixing with a tiny mass of plasma…well, that’s the wet-sand-and-torch analogy again. And, no, there’s not enough hydrogen in the reactor to really explode with the oxygen." (Mathers, Dietrich. "The Basics of BattleMechs," Stuttgart School of Defense, Kaumberg, 12 May 3070)

Therefore, I'm rather confident that I'm not outright killing anyone (even id they fail to eject, unless the cockpit was destroyed), even though in this universe it's inevitable from time to time. Realistically, in most cases, when your 'Mech is destroyed, you're looking at simply bracing yourself for the inevitable impact when it falls to the ground. That's about it.

Edited by EXSODER, 14 December 2012 - 03:59 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

steelblueskies, on 14 December 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

if you are calling it mecha or referring to them as mechs, that is battletechs' influence. elsewhere and/or prior to bt you'd be hunting for robots, or a specific titles' designation. there's an element of first come first serve to naming as well. much like scanning a document is digitizing instead of digitalizing because the application of digitalis in medicine already consumed the term digitalize. robot designs (and the aforementioned article does this to boot) and a further distinguishment of terms being needed, robot was used, mech or mecha become commonplace, and got subsumed to cover the alternate set, even if in so doing it increased inaccuracy in application between the western world and the eastern world.

functionally if trying to dig up r&d papers on the subjects involved in reality it's exorobotics, the mechatronics side of things tends towards leading into non wearable remotely operated or autonomous systems generally.(think designing physical machines for a movie to stand in for cg or an actor in a suit, or an moving dino exhibit at a museum).

Actually, it's the other way around - "mech"/"mecha" actually predates BT/MW.

BT's predecessor, "Battledroids", was released in the 1984, with the name changed to "BattleTech" in 1985.

Quote

1. FASA originally introduced BATTLETECH as a boxed board game entitled BATTLEDROIDS in 1984. The general idea of BATTLETECH involves a complex, war-strategy game involving a futuristic civil war where combatants are both humans and genetically bred humans and use large and medium scale robot-like tanks, as well as powered battlesuits, as their weapons.

2. The game was developed by FASA's founders, Jordan Weisman and Ross Babcock, after they attended the 1984 Annual Trade Show of the Hobby Industries of America which was held in Anaheim, California between January 31, 1984 and February 5, 1984. (Weisman Tr. 261-275; Babcock Dep.). n1

-----

6. In August of 1984, FASA created several copies of its prototype BATTLEDROIDS game and made initial sales to [*1132] some FASA distributors. (PX 149; Weisman Tr. 268-74).

7. By September of 1984, FASA had decided to proceed with full scale production of the BATTLEDROIDS game and placed a large order for model kits from TCI for game markers. FASA also requested that TCI obtain artwork of the models from the Japanese manufacturer for use in the BATTLEDROIDS game and supplemental products. (PX 138; DX 2; Weisman Tr. 288, 360-61; Lewis Tr. 743-45).

8. In late November of 1984, the model kits arrived and were inserted into the BATTLEDROIDS game boxes. Thereafter, FASA began selling the BATTLEDROIDS game through its nationwide distribution network, which consisted of hobby shops, game shops, comic book shops and book stores. (PX 1, 144-45; Weisman Tr. 272-81). [**9]

9. The name of the BATTLEDROIDS game was changed in 1985 pursuant to a settlement between FASA and LucasFilm, which had obtained a registration for the mark DROIDS. FASA was then negotiating with LucasFilm for a license for Star Wars products and determined that it was in FASA's best interest to work out an agreement with LucasFilm to sell off the remaining BATTLEDROID games and change the name. (PX 150; Weisman Tr. 273-74).

10. When a second edition of the game was printed in the fall of 1985, BATTLEDROIDS became BATTLETECH. The rules of the game and the fictional setting of the game did not change, although the model kit markers were replaced by paper game markers bearing the same designs because the model kit markers were too large to function properly as game pieces. (PGX 2A; Weisman Tr. 275-80).

(source is "FASA CORPORATION and VIRTUAL WORLD ENTERTAINMENT, Plaintiffs, v. PLAYMATES TOYS, INC., Defendant")

By contrast, the term "mecha" - as opposed to "robot" (ロボット, "robotto") or "machine" (きかい, "kikai") - had seen previous use in anime and manga, including in the title of the 1982 series Combat Mecha Xabungle (戦闘メカ ザブングル, "Sentō Meka Zabunguru"), where the in-series designation for the mecha was "Walker Machine".

(As it happens, Xabungle was directed by Yoshiyuki Tomino (the same guy that had created/directed MS Gundam three years prior, in 1979) and was produced by Sunrise (the same studio that had produced Gundam).)

Generally, BT/MW refers to its machines as 'Mechs (capitalized "M", preceded by apostrophe), to distinguish from the older and more widely-used term, mech (lower-case "m", no apostrophe).

In this way, BT/MW is still following in the footsteps of those mecha that had come before...

[EXSODER]

I think one of the earliest (if not the earliest) appearance of 'mechs' is in War of the Worlds, written in 1898. They fired dropships (cylinders) down and then constructed their huge tripods from the parts inside. Slap a Large Laser on there (no heat sinks necessary!) and there you go.

Even the Warden has access to 'Mechs. Who wouldn't want one of these things?

Look at it go! Looks kind of like a cross between a Jenner, an Urbanmech, and a Blackjack with a single ballistic hardpoint that does way more than Machine Gun damage...

[Raso]

JohnnyWayne, on 13 December 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

Haven't seen any crying children in painful colourful mech's. So Mechwarrior is obviously better than Gundam.

Gotta hate these crying children that "~don't want to kill anyone Q.Q~" IN A ******* WARMACHINE OF FIRE AND DEATH GRRRR...

I actually used to like Gundam but recently... As said crying children... I can't watch these series anymore -.-...

See that's actually what I enjoy about the Gundam franchise. There is an interesting juxtaposition in the loss of innocence from being thrust into war. Children do not hate and they do not start wars, those are things which grown men do.

A soldier goes to war and when he is told to fight he does so with out question. The enemy is his enemy because he is told so. There is no internal conflict and no moral dilemma only orders and mission objectives. Children don't see war like that. They ask what the point is, they ask what the killing solves and they question how it even solves anything. On top of that most of the wars fought in the Gundam franchise are petty wars based on greed, control and prejudice and often both sides are painted as being both wrong and right on one level or the other. For all of the corny dialog or crazy as robot fights I truly think that Gundam, especially the original UC era shows, have a more mature and critical perspective of war than most contemporary war dramas.

I'll take a story about an unabashedly antiwar child thrust into an impossible situations over a story about a brainwashed, killing machine of the state who does what he is told like a good lap dog any day of the week.

[EnigmaNL]

Raso, on 14 December 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

See that's actually what I enjoy about the Gundam franchise. There is an interesting juxtaposition in the loss of innocence from being thrust into war. Children do not hate and they do not start wars, those are things which grown men do.

A soldier goes to war and when he is told to fight he does so with out question. The enemy is his enemy because he is told so. There is no internal conflict and no moral dilemma only orders and mission objectives. Children don't see war like that. They ask what the point is, they ask what the killing solves and they question how it even solves anything. On top of that most of the wars fought in the Gundam franchise are petty wars based on greed, control and prejudice and often both sides are painted as being both wrong and right on one level or the other. For all of the corny dialog or crazy as robot fights I truly think that Gundam, especially the original UC era shows, have a more mature and critical perspective of war than most contemporary war dramas.

I'll take a story about an unabashedly antiwar child thrust into an impossible situations over a story about a brainwashed, killing machine of the state who does what he is told like a good lap dog any day of the week.

Do you really believe soldiers are like that? Soldiers have plenty of internal conflict, that's why so many of them are messed up in the head after a war.

Children do hate, so some research on child soldiers in Africa. Sure they are being controlled by warlords but they sure do hate their enemies because they are being taught to hate them from a very young age.

Having children in robots fighting battles is just ridiculous.