85 replies to this topic

[siLve00]

so you crybabys want 8 premades vs 8 pugs back ?

funny ****.. bwhhahaha

[OnLashoc]

Gregore, on 13 December 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

8 man is too hard, no easy cbill making abilities and their KDR and W/L is being hurt.
Better to synch drop and smash some pugs because even though they screamed for a challenge that pug stomping is too easy, well, that was just them actually bragging, once they start losing they want to go back to winning.

8 man is definitely harder, my K/d dropped from about 9.0 KDR to a 3.something KDR and leveled off at about 4.3 KDR. We are adapting to different strategies and actually fighting teams with some common & battle sense. Again don't lump us all in that group of exploiting the borked system, some of us and I'd like to think because I'm and eternal optimist MOST of us teams are not going for the easy credits. If I'm wrong, then bonus for us because when it matters we'll have much more experience against other teams than most others come metaverse.

Like I pointed out above, those teams that PUG stomp only stick out when we get on the battlefield with them. Quick 3-4 minute matches 8-0, 8-1, 8-2 kill outs.

[Purlana]

siLve00, on 13 December 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

so you crybabys want 8 premades vs 8 pugs back ?

funny ****.. bwhhahaha

I would think it's mainly the PUGs crying. Why would a pre-made cry when stomping PUGs?

[QuantumButler]

everyone realized PGi didn't bother to code any sort of team balancing and the comstar TS server guys don't feel like being slaughtered by 8 DDCs or basecapped repeatedly by up to 6 ECM lights.

And almost no one is honorable enough to run the 2/2/2/2 teamcomp.

Also the whole "NEED 8manz to play" thing, which PGI really shouldn't have made a hard limit.

Recently, lots of our players want to farm cbills to buy their stalkers once they're out, and all the hassles invovlved in 8manz means it's actually quicker to grind cbills pugging or in 4mans than it is in 8mans, so they'd rather do that, meaning not enough guys for 8mans.

Edited by QuantumButler, 13 December 2012 - 06:05 AM.

[Teralitha]

StaggerCheck, on 12 December 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

Sad to say, but I called it before the patch. They're all sync-dropping or have gone back to fours because they were losing C-Bills dropping against each other. Repairs, slower matches, less matches... even the better salvage couldn't compensate for the lost matches they weren't dropping into. ECM probably has something to do with it, too. You don't do something that is not fun again and again unless there is a great reward at the end of it. Dropping 8v8 takes away much of the incentive.

Id say its because teams dont have enough players to field 8 at any given hour. My team usually only does 8 man teams in the late hours USA time. I myself have stopped playing for other reasons. Horrid netcode being one, Im also sick to death of the crap base capping mode, and im already tired of the all ECM Atlas/raven teams and brawler base rushing. All things which were predicted by all the geniuses here. Now most of them, like myself, have stopped playing and await the game to be much improved before we come back. Has little to do with the game being hard, or slow or whatever. The main reason is because the game is still crap. And no my KDR hasnt suffered from playing 8vs8 premades, niether has my cbill income. Its just simply no fun. They need to have hard rules in place. And they need to have TDM.

Edited by Teralitha, 13 December 2012 - 06:06 AM.

[MuonNeutrino]

OnLashoc, on 13 December 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

...Like I pointed out above, those teams that PUG stomp only stick out when we get on the battlefield with them. Quick 3-4 minute matches 8-0, 8-1, 8-2 kill outs.

I don't dispute that there are probably teams like this out there, but I do want to point out that there's another possible explanation. Not all of the teams dropping into the 8v8 queue are organized standing groups - some of them are (or at least were) impromptu 'pickup' teams organized on the fly from random people coming together someplace like the comstar TS server. It's not surprising that an organized, standing team tends to roflstomp such groups, as pretty much by definition they're not coordinated in the same way since they've been playing with that particular set of teammates for a couple hours at best.

I had some thoughts on that whole issue here:
http://mwomercs.com/...icecomm-groups/
but long story short, not all bad 8-man groups are bad, some of them are just casuals.

[OnLashoc]

MuonNeutrino, on 13 December 2012 - 06:13 AM, said:

I don't dispute that there are probably teams like this out there, but I do want to point out that there's another possible explanation. Not all of the teams dropping into the 8v8 queue are organized standing groups - some of them are (or at least were) impromptu 'pickup' teams organized on the fly from random people coming together someplace like the comstar TS server. It's not surprising that an organized, standing team tends to roflstomp such groups, as pretty much by definition they're not coordinated in the same way since they've been playing with that particular set of teammates for a couple hours at best.

I had some thoughts on that whole issue here:
http://mwomercs.com/...icecomm-groups/
but long story short, not all bad 8-man groups are bad, some of them are just casuals.

Hmm food for thought, didn't even really consider that.

I thought PUGies were all against organized gaming and didn't want to play against premades, this suggest the opposite. Possible yes I agree, likely? With all the bitching on these forums about 8 man Premades vs 8 PUGS... Not as likely. But I'll keep that thought in the back of my mind.

[DerSpecht]

QuantumButler, on 13 December 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

And almost no one is honorable enough to run the 2/2/2/2 teamcomp.

So online games are about ehonoure now?

[QuantumButler]

OnLashoc, on 13 December 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

Hmm food for thought, didn't even really consider that.

I thought PUGies were all against organized gaming and didn't want to play against premades, this suggest the opposite. Possible yes I agree, likely? With all the bitching on these forums about 8 man Premades vs 8 PUGS... Not as likely. But I'll keep that thought in the back of my mind.

i think the main thing is in MWO, most "premades" are actually random people who got on the comstar or other public TS3 servers and grouped up to play the game. This is actually what a "PUG" is btw, a "pick up group", one formed by random people on the spot. So when these random teams try to 8man, they get slaughtered by actual teams who are in a merc corps and have played together before and so more or less know what everyone will do.

What everyone mistakenly calls pugs are just randoms tossed together temporarily for one match, whereas a Pick up Group is an actual group that persists.

These are common in MMORPGs such as WoW, you know, when you LFG to do a dungeon or w/e, the groups formed from this are a PUG.

Edited by QuantumButler, 13 December 2012 - 06:23 AM.

[Asmosis]

Fais, on 12 December 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

We didnt have any trouble getting an 8v8 match last night from 7pm to Midnight EST. I enjoying 8v8 much more then any pug match, but it defintly needs to have the rewards increased. You not improving your experience or credit pool much when doing 8v8, and I see allot of people still trying to finish different designs.

Its not uncommon in WOT to see team play empty during certain times of the day. So it wouldnt suprise me to see them empty in the morning. They even have 10's of thousands of players on at same time in pug matches.

Your sense of entitlement is astounding. a pug vs pug match takes just as long as a team vs team match, probably longer. If all you ever do is compare your current matches to pugstomping, OF COURSE its going to be less "rewarding".

[Purlana]

Asmosis, on 13 December 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

Your sense of entitlement is astounding. a pug vs pug match takes just as long as a team vs team match, probably longer. If all you ever do is compare your current matches to pugstomping, OF COURSE its going to be less "rewarding".

Hell no, PUG games are over pretty damn fast.

Edited by Purlana, 13 December 2012 - 06:30 AM.

[QuantumButler]

Purlana, on 13 December 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

Hell no, PUG games are over pretty damn fast.

This is typically true, the other day we had a 8 v 8 match where it ended with only 3 minutes left on the clock, the typical 8man drop lasts twice as long as the typical pub drop.

[Haxburch]

Jelan, on 13 December 2012 - 04:19 AM, said:

8 mans = Training and Experience getting ready for Community Warfare
4 mans = CBills and XP's to unlock the variants and modules you want to use in the aforementioned 8 mans

But there does overall seem to be less 8 man groups about currently.

BS , just face the fact the so called elite premades just dont want opponents , they want victims .
For this Gamemode is any premade mode just wrong , nobody want to deal with this on a daily base . Premades are for a kind of conquermode , Clan - war , E - sport .

All other protestations are nothing but lie from pimply young kids and reflect maybe some wishes but no reality . Time to get down from the high horse and delete the premades .

Most of the time PUG are more fun and much more fair and also based a bit on luck wath is good. Sure there are alot pointless people and afk and suziders but this a other problem and has to be sort out.

Edited by Haxburch, 13 December 2012 - 06:42 AM.

[Gristle]

Running an 8 man group goes something like this:

Have enough players to form an 8 man, kewl!
play 2 or 3 matches...this takes approx. 1 hour with the down time between matches.
some one has to leave...uh-oh, can't drop now and no one in lobby/queue,
OK - so lets split into a 3 and 4 man group, form new groups...
hey look, Joe just joined up, we can form an 8 man, kewl...
darn, other group has already dropped and are mid-match...
do we wait for them to finish and then form an 8 man, or go ahead and drop?
let's wait - OK.....yay! there done...but darn, SlingLaser is leaving...not enough for 8 man again...
OK - well lets drop a 4 man....so now we get to play a 4 man match and it's 30 minutes after the last match we played...


NOT worth the trouble.

[OnLashoc]

Haxburch, on 13 December 2012 - 06:36 AM, said:

BS , just face the fact the so called elite premades just dont want opponents , they want victims .
For this Gamemode is any premade mode just wrong , nobody want to deal with this on a daily base . Premades are for a kind of conquermode , Clan - war , E - sport .

All other protestations are nothing but lie from pimply young kids and reflect maybe some wishes but no reality . Time to get down from the high horse and delete the premades .

This is where I have a problem, you tell us to delete the premade, and in the same sentence tell US to get down from our high horse as if your logic is higher than thou.

Premades are not the problem.

PUGs are not the problem.

PGI's implementation of matchmaking is.

It's quite simple really.

Give players the option to select from a list of ALREADY formed premades to choose to go fight, a check mark for queueing against other premades or PUG's only.

= End of mass bitching and moaning on the forums from people stating that their moar right than others.

[QuantumButler]

Gristle, on 13 December 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

Running an 8 man group goes something like this:

Have enough players to form an 8 man, kewl!
play 2 or 3 matches...this takes approx. 1 hour with the down time between matches.
some one has to leave...uh-oh, can't drop now and no one in lobby/queue,
OK - so lets split into a 3 and 4 man group, form new groups...
hey look, Joe just joined up, we can form an 8 man, kewl...
darn, other group has already dropped and are mid-match...
do we wait for them to finish and then form an 8 man, or go ahead and drop?
let's wait - OK.....yay! there done...but darn, SlingLaser is leaving...not enough for 8 man again...
OK - well lets drop a 4 man....so now we get to play a 4 man match and it's 30 minutes after the last match we played...


NOT worth the trouble.

Don't forget at least 1 player CTDing/having goldvision/no HUD/Memory leak 4fps every single match on average so you have to reform the group repeatedly after every drops and usually leaving you 1 or more guys down in game because of stellar game programming.

[Haxburch]

OnLashoc, on 13 December 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

This is where I have a problem, you tell us to delete the premade, and in the same sentence tell US to get down from our high horse as if your logic is higher than thou.

Premades are not the problem.

PUGs are not the problem.

PGI's implementation of matchmaking is.

It's quite simple really.

Give players the option to select from a list of ALREADY formed premades to choose to go fight, a check mark for queueing against other premades or PUG's only.

= End of mass bitching and moaning on the forums from people stating that their moar right than others.

I am not on a high horse , i play PUGs and try to get better in this way . Premade guys just want to abuse the pugs and destroy gamefun for this guys . I n fact the pug guy take the real challenge and is a fair sportsmen and the premade guys is nothing but a cheater to me .

OR we get 2 queue , one for PUG ongly 1 for any kind of premade . Maybe then i can respect the premade guys .

Sure i could also play premades but i know i dont have so much time and dont want to deal with alot waiting time . Also its my afterwork time so i play a match , do some work in my flat , play another match go to phone check the kitchen and ....

I would like to play premade with my clan later, if PGI brings Worlds to conquer. Make some warplan , start a invasion ... some creazy stuff on weekend but with other gamemodes for premades ongyl ! This time its just wrong an will hurt the game ... badly over time.

Edited by Haxburch, 13 December 2012 - 07:06 AM.

[Purlana]

QuantumButler, on 13 December 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

Don't forget at least 1 player CTDing/having goldvision/no HUD/Memory leak 4fps every single match on average so you have to reform the group repeatedly after every drops and usually leaving you 1 or more guys down in game because of stellar game programming.

Yeah I love how the group gets bugged if the leader crashes during a match. Or how the new group leader is random if the previous one leaves, and the fact that you can't boot someone from the group....

Seems like they should have thought about these issues already.

Edited by Purlana, 13 December 2012 - 06:55 AM.

[Ghogiel]

There doesn't seem to be many people defending 8mans as being good. It appears many are disillusioned with them right now.

But 4man pug stomping to grind out cbills is still fun it seems. The most common reason cited is easy cbill farming.

[Sprouticus]

Daemian, on 12 December 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

So no one plays this game during business hours?

It is not just business hours in North America. The hours stated by the OP are business hours in Europe too. Only Asia-Pac is in after hours play time.

So yea....not surprised.