90 replies to this topic

[Roland]

Aegis Kleais, on 12 December 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

But either way, worrying about someone else's damage output isn't as important to how effective a teammate they were (more closely reflected in the XP).

Generally, folks who are scoring less than 100 points of damage in a game really aren't doing crap to help the team.

[SpiralRazor]

Sub 100s, this is your typical Pugger.

Mostly because there is no real tutorial and mostly again because Puggers dont take any advice without considering it criticism.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 12 December 2012 - 10:03 AM.

[Sifright]

Game 2

[Sifright]

Game 3 - Pushed in to deep in lower city, Killed a hunch back and an awesome whilst being swarmed also crippled at a Cataphract. Enemy raven took token damage from me as well *he survived*(curse you lag shield!)

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Daiichidoku, on 12 December 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

point is, having high damage while teamamtes have little proves NOTHING, necessarily, save that you may have had a bit of luck positionally and in timing in addition to your own deliberate actions


or is that over your head?

It must be, because it sounds extremely stupid. Unless they died right away, they should produce some kind of numbers from a fight. But you keep telling yourself those things, whatever makes you feel better when you're being carried.

Roland, on 12 December 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Generally, folks who are scoring less than 100 points of damage in a game really aren't doing crap to help the team.

They kept the base warm! But don't tell Daiic that.

[GioAvanti]

OriginalTibs, on 12 December 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

A headshot downs a mech after only 18 damage.

Just thought I would point that out.

At least 21 if not more... just thought I'd point that out. (ie 18 armor).

[GioAvanti]

Sifright, on 12 December 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

what? so bad I take half the enemy team with me?

So bad I out damage the entirety of my team twice over?

So bad the only mechs left usually are missing half their weapons?

I wouldn't mind having a few pugs that could do that on my teams.....

I'm going to say on average that strategy you listed MIGHT take 1 mech with you.... maybe even less if you're playing smart folks.

A lot of your skill may be in your head (ie you thinking you're rushing in and breaking their line.. but really your team has already started to cause damage)... or who knows you could just be fighting terrible opponents.

Edited by GioAvanti, 12 December 2012 - 10:52 AM.

[Aegis Kleais]

Roland, on 12 December 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Generally, folks who are scoring less than 100 points of damage in a game really aren't doing crap to help the team.

But it doesn't mean they aren't trying. They may just not be as skilled as others. We were all new to the game at one point.

[Sifright]

GioAvanti, on 12 December 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

I'm going to say on average that strategy you listed MIGHT take 1 mech with you.... maybe even less if you're playing smart folks.

A lot of your skill may be in your head (ie you thinking you're rushing in and breaking their line.. but really your team has already started to cause damage)... or who knows you could just be fighting terrible opponents.

or it could be I actually know what i'm doing.

Sure when im pugging i'm generally playing terrible opponents but even in 8 man groups I usually top my team.

as for the 'causing' damage idea already.... Buwahahaha.

Yea....

Good joke. There is this thing called targeting... I know it's confusing what you do is press R and you can see the mechs health! (I figured you must be one of those players I keep spectating that NEVER targets enemy mechs and thus has no idea where they have already been damaged.)

90% of the mechs I kill are 100% health when i engage them.

Edited by Sifright, 12 December 2012 - 11:00 AM.

[Tesunie]

Adrian Steel, on 12 December 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

The incompetence of most PUG pilots is depressing enough for me to start using them as disposable meatshields, because time and time again they prove themselves to be only worth that - if that. I bet a bunch of them couldn't do that right if they tried.

Those mouth breathing, joystick lubing, full throttling, keyboard smashing PUGS!

I've felt that too. People using me as nothing more than a meat shield. I'm not a bad player. I've been known to see someone in trouble and come rushing to their aid. I'm a fast light mech. I distract and cause some worry. What does my ally(s) do? Ditch me to be fed to the wolves. Another "meat shield" killed when, if I had proper support from, say, the person I just bailed out, I could have possibly lived and the target could have died, but nope. I died. I rushed to support, and died because I wasn't supported in kind. It's people with your mentality about us "PUG" players being "bad" that tends to hurt the team. Some of us might just not have found a group yet. It's hard to make friends in this game. There is no lobby before or after a match.Once the match ends and the scores come up, you can't type anymore. You can't complement someone, or give advice to someone else. It's really hard to get to know your fellow team mates with the current launching system. (It's BATA, I know. Just saying.) Next time you feed one of us PUGs to the wolves as a meat shield, consider that, maybe, we might know what we are doing but someone else (like maybe you?) are too focused on yourself to bother helping us in kind.

Roughneck45, on 12 December 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

I go into every pug drop with this mindset, and just assume that ill have to throw the whole team on my shoulders.

This way, I can only be pleasantly surprised if any of them are competent pilots.

I feel what you say too. You sound like you'd ditch me in a hot situation as well. Even if I just bailed you out of the fire. You sound like one of the people I'd say "I'm scouting the tunnel", and then I go "We have heavies in the tunnel" that you would bail on me and leave me to face the two/three/entire team on my own as you either cap their base, or something.

Just trying to say, not all of us PUGs are bad players. I've played with people in trial mechs who just started the game and did well. Why? They supported me in some way. I've, then again, played with a premade four man team in my pug match, and they fed me to the wolves as they couldn't be bothered to help out a puger. I'm just scum on their mech's feet. They go off, and leave the rest of us to die.

I finally got a partner in the game (as I updated my video card). Having just one person to help watch my back has been great. I can run an enemy into his guns and I know he'll be there. The rest of you "I hate the pugers because they suck" should maybe try and support us, instead of "carrying the whole team on your shoulders". Some of us can work with a little guidance, a quick team chat if you bothered. (However, any stupid advice given on Team Chat tends to get ignored, and that's when I realize I need to do my own thing. Like stay near the Atlas to provide an anti-light screen or I scout ahead.) And, consider next time one of use PUGers say "we have enemies in the tunnel" that, maybe we could use some help and try to set an ambush at the mouth of the tunnel to kill them as they pour out. Something I can work with and draw them into. Instead of jousting with three assaults in my fast mech and hope they don't kill me. Say a trap is set in team chat, and I'll respond if I can.

Communication. Key to any teamwork.

[Khanahar]

No excuses. Play like a champion every time.

And I honestly try to be sympathetic to anyone struggling in this game. Yes, some of us have lots of practice, and are doing just fine in PUGs. Others are just starting out, or don't play many video games, or are playing with bad ping, or are just plain old and unused to this kind of thing, despite their passion for the franchise.

They are the community. Support them. And if you lose despite playing like a champion, queue up again and try to play better next time. Unless you're headshotting every enemy 'mech before it can return fire, you're not perfect yet. Every time a team-mate goes down, remember you could have played better. Not to beat yourself up, but just to stay humble and keep trying to get better and have fun with the challenge of it.

[Tesunie]

Khanahar, on 12 December 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

No excuses. Play like a champion every time. And I honestly try to be sympathetic to anyone struggling in this game. Yes, some of us have lots of practice, and are doing just fine in PUGs. Others are just starting out, or don't play many video games, or are playing with bad ping, or are just plain old and unused to this kind of thing, despite their passion for the franchise. They are the community. Support them. And if you lose despite playing like a champion, queue up again and try to play better next time. Unless you're headshotting every enemy 'mech before it can return fire, you're not perfect yet. Every time a team-mate goes down, remember you could have played better. Not to beat yourself up, but just to stay humble and keep trying to get better and have fun with the challenge of it.

I support this comment!

[Nathan Bloodguard]

something everyone forgets. lights tend to have a small payload, especially in comparison to those lovely assault mechs. My poor little raven (that still has stock engine so it only goes 81kph as i cant afford anything else...) only has a damage rating of 18. When compared to an atlas which might have a damage rating of four or five times more, of course that atlas is going to cause more damage then my poor little raven. Also my poor little raven has lower armor then said atlas and as such will get blown up far quicker, resulting in a lower damage score, in comparison to the atlas, that can take a beating and keep on ticking. If you say its cause I'm a poor pilot, well maybe so but it could also be poor luck as one good hit can finish me, unlike an atlas.

As a light mech my role is not exactly to cause massive amounts of damage, but to scout and provide support, not brawl it out with an assault. This is especially so when you consider i dont have a bigger engine to get the imfamous lag shield.

Ps: damage of 100-300 on average per match while having a 50% chance of survival....

[Sifright]

Nathan Bloodguard, on 12 December 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

something everyone forgets. lights tend to have a small payload, especially in comparison to those lovely assault mechs. My poor little raven (that still has stock engine so it only goes 81kph as i cant afford anything else...) only has a damage rating of 18. When compared to an atlas which might have a damage rating of four or five times more, of course that atlas is going to cause more damage then my poor little raven. Also my poor little raven has lower armor then said atlas and as such will get blown up far quicker, resulting in a lower damage score, in comparison to the atlas, that can take a beating and keep on ticking. If you say its cause I'm a poor pilot, well maybe so but it could also be poor luck as one good hit can finish me, unlike an atlas.

As a light mech my role is not exactly to cause massive amounts of damage, but to scout and provide support, not brawl it out with an assault. This is especially so when you consider i dont have a bigger engine to get the imfamous lag shield.

Ps: damage of 100-300 on average per match while having a 50% chance of survival....

There is no such thing as 'scouts' in pugs.

Unless you are constantly typing what you see you aren't scouting in a pug match.

when you provide support, what do you mean by that? I see a lot of people typing that kind of thing and agreeing with the sentiment but really what are you actually providing to your team. It's not information in pug matches one ECM nullifies all of your ability to relay info automatically.

Your damage output at a light mech SHOULDN'T be terrible.

Yes you don't have a huge amount of damage output but you have mobility to stay in the fight out of their hit path and damaging them from the periphery as a light you should be doing about 200-400 damage aiming for CT's (the enemy will torso twist to split damage after all)

ultimately 'role warfare' is a nice idea but it doesn't apply to pug matches for the most part. If you aren't doing damage you aren't helping in the current game setup.

Any one talking about getting head shots really has no idea about how to play the game only a couple of weapons in the game can really be targeted that precisely and with the current state of the netcode and how finicky the hit boxes are you won't be hitting the head hit box unless they are stood still.

[Jakob Knight]

Well, I tend to get more fustrated when players rack up a ton of damage points, but fail to help their team. A pilot that is shooting a handful of Atlas' to get their damage score up and killing none irks me more than the player who just killed four mechs with single shots. I'm just a results person, I guess.

[Tesunie]

Sifright, on 12 December 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

There is no such thing as 'scouts' in pugs.

Unless you are constantly typing what you see you aren't scouting in a pug match.

when you provide support, what do you mean by that? I see a lot of people typing that kind of thing and agreeing with the sentiment but really what are you actually providing to your team. It's not information in pug matches one ECM nullifies all of your ability to relay info automatically.

Your damage output at a light mech SHOULDN'T be terrible.

Yes you don't have a huge amount of damage output but you have mobility to stay in the fight out of their hit path and damaging them from the periphery as a light you should be doing about 200-400 damage aiming for CT's (the enemy will torso twist to split damage after all)

ultimately 'role warfare' is a nice idea but it doesn't apply to pug matches for the most part. If you aren't doing damage you aren't helping in the current game setup.

Any one talking about getting head shots really has no idea about how to play the game only a couple of weapons in the game can really be targeted that precisely and with the current state of the netcode and how finicky the hit boxes are you won't be hitting the head hit box unless they are stood still.

Erhum. Let me help you out here. If they don't have ECM, I can provide spotting assists for people. If they do have ECM, I can STILL TYPE WHAT SECTION ON THE GRID THEY ARE IN AND SAY WHAT MOVEMENTS THEY ARE USING. I do it all the time. Tell my allies that the tunnel is clear. That the enemy is in section D4 moving along the coast. And, if they don't have ECM, I'm spotting for anyone who has LRMs on our side of the match. Damage isn't everything.

I also tend to do little damage, (Last match was barely 100 damage), but I felt I did a good impact for the better for my team. I rushed in when needed to support a heavy (who pulled suicide into the enemy ranks, but I tired to help him), pulled out when he died, redirected some of the fire that would have gone to him to me, making him live a few moments longer, and I even got to run back, delay the entire enemy advance so that the large laser sniper allies got a few more shots as they concentrated on me instead. Then, I got legged, and then lost my other leg. We lost the match because the plan was to stay together (more or less) and we ended up having a heavy charge the enemy lines and die (despite my own best efforts to support him) and I saw a few mediums do the same thing.

Light mechs can support. We can scout. We can cap. We can still bring valuable intel to the table. Just because I don't have every perk for my mech in the game bought, as well as the fastest engine, taking advantage of the lag shield and don't do 400-11000000000 damage does not mean I'm not helping or holding my weight. If I was out to cause damage and only damage, I'd jump into a heavy or assault and just bring a billion weapons to bear and alpha strike till I overheat and stand there with a dumb look on my face.

This isn't DPS online. It's Mechwarrior Online. Yes. Damage has a lot to do with it. But, if a light doesn't distract and support and/or lure enemies into your guns by providing details or outright being a lure, then you can die fairly quickly as well. I've seen the all Atlas team. They lost. I've seen the all fast team. Beaten them too. Okay? It's luck, game play, team work and, yes, damage as well. It's a balance thing. Also, there is this thing where some teams might not have ECM, so spotting is a possibility. Or, this thing called Heat Sensors. I use them. I often times know where the enemy is long before they know were I am. ECM or not, I will find you and report that intel to my team.

And, as someone else said, you win as a team, or you get defeated as a team. And it's true. I've lost matches because of that one AFK person. I've won matches two people down. Team work will carry the day more than a single person's damage stat (if the team makes up for it and works as a team). (Also, I don't have much PING, so I can't seem to take advantage of this lag shield everyone else can get.)

Edited by Tesunie, 12 December 2012 - 12:02 PM.

[Dock Steward]

If you really cared how the other PUGs on your team were performing, you'd offer constructive advice rather than sounding braggy in a forum. People of all ages and skill levels play this game. How can you expect everyone to be of the same caliber? If the OP's point was about how match making needs to be refined, I'd be okay with it, but as it stands, people need to learn patience with other players. You don't complain about how badly the OTHER team under-performs! "Oh I really wish the other team had been comprised of better players!" said no one, ever.

[Sifright]

Tesunie, on 12 December 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

Erhum. Let me help you out here. If they don't have ECM, I can provide spotting assists for people. If they do have ECM, I can STILL TYPE WHAT SECTION ON THE GRID THEY ARE IN AND SAY WHAT MOVEMENTS THEY ARE USING. I do it all the time. Tell my allies that the tunnel is clear. That the enemy is in section D4 moving along the coast. And, if they don't have ECM, I'm spotting for anyone who has LRMs on our side of the match. Damage isn't everything.

I also tend to do little damage, (Last match was barely 100 damage), but I felt I did a good impact for the better for my team. I rushed in when needed to support a heavy (who pulled suicide into the enemy ranks, but I tired to help him), pulled out when he died, redirected some of the fire that would have gone to him to me, making him live a few moments longer, and I even got to run back, delay the entire enemy advance so that the large laser sniper allies got a few more shots as they concentrated on me instead. Then, I got legged, and then lost my other leg. We lost the match because the plan was to stay together (more or less) and we ended up having a heavy charge the enemy lines and die (despite my own best efforts to support him) and I saw a few mediums do the same thing.

Light mechs can support. We can scout. We can cap. We can still bring valuable intel to the table. Just because I don't have every perk for my mech in the game bought, as well as the fastest engine, taking advantage of the lag shield and don't do 400-11000000000 damage does not mean I'm not helping or holding my weight. If I was out to cause damage and only damage, I'd jump into a heavy or assault and just bring a billion weapons to bear and alpha strike till I overheat and stand there with a dumb look on my face.

This isn't DPS online. It's Mechwarrior Online. Yes. Damage has a lot to do with it. But, if a light doesn't distract and support and/or lure enemies into your guns by providing details or outright being a lure, then you can die fairly quickly as well. I've seen the all Atlas team. They lost. I've seen the all fast team. Beaten them too. Okay? It's luck, game play, team work and, yes, damage as well. It's a balance thing. Also, there is this thing where some teams might not have ECM, so spotting is a possibility. Or, this thing called Heat Sensors. I use them. I often times know where the enemy is long before they know were I am. ECM or not, I will find you and report that intel to my team.

And, as someone else said, you win as a team, or you get defeated as a team. And it's true. I've lost matches because of that one AFK person. I've won matches two people down. Team work will carry the day more than a single person's damage stat (if the team makes up for it and works as a team). (Also, I don't have much PING, so I can't seem to take advantage of this lag shield everyone else can get.)

Sifright, on 12 December 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Unless you are constantly typing what you see you aren't scouting in a pug match.

Thats a very long tirade, if you had read my post a bit more closely you would see it's not directed at you..

(Edit: That is to say if I quoted your post I was ostensibly addressing the point that others seem to think scouts are actually a position in the game currently when in fact most of them aren't scouting they are trying to take advantage of the lag shield. With the current state of ecm *needs a small nerf* Scouting doesn't really work to well unless you have voice comms)

Evidently by what you say you are one of those mythical players that spends the game typing away in the chat window which drops your message after 3 seconds.

I mean sure you might actually be doing your job as a scout. The vast majority of players in pug matches in lights aren't.

Dock Steward, on 12 December 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

If you really cared how the other PUGs on your team were performing, you'd offer constructive advice rather than sounding braggy in a forum. People of all ages and skill levels play this game. How can you expect everyone to be of the same caliber? If the OP's point was about how match making needs to be refined, I'd be okay with it, but as it stands, people need to learn patience with other players. You don't complain about how badly the OTHER team under-performs! "Oh I really wish the other team had been comprised of better players!" said no one, ever.

This isn't true, I find pugging dull due to the lack of skill involved however it's all i can do when my friends are offline or if i need to grind money quickly to check out a different mech build/load out.

Edited by Sifright, 12 December 2012 - 12:08 PM.

[Stoicblitzer]

It's frustrating when you start a match and press Q. You know that Joe is in a DDC. During the match you encounter Jack in an enemy DDC. The match ends in a loss for your team and you see Joe did 98 DMG while Jack did 650 DMG. It is frustrating but we just need to understand that some people are bad.

[Ghogiel]

Nope.

You know your team was all dead and was spectating your awesomeness