269 replies to this topic

[3rdworld]

TruePoindexter, on 13 December 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

No offense - but may I ask why you're so defensive/combative? I have no problem with you as a person - you're just wrong.

Yes - hold the beam. Is that hard to do? You do it with lasers already. It's not a matter of difficulty it's a matter of trying. To counter you're argument don't you see how simplistic it is to get a missile lock and fire away at a target not protected by ECM?

By your thinking LRMs work out of the box and therefore the simplest. The initial state.
ECM then required a little more effort since it has to be equipped and you have to keep within range of your teammates for it to be effective. The second state.
Finally TAG requires the most effort since you have equip it, maneuver within range, and then hold it on the target for the LRM's flight time. The third state.

So really the counter to a counter requires more effort than the first counter. Seems like it's working as intended.

Oh and that statement is about how a lot of people are very sloppy players who make blanket statements like LRMs are useless now. Those players get to eat my team's LRMs in the head for their arrogance.

I AM NOT COMBATIVE!!!!! joke, If I sound that way, it is unintended.

But the second state is no where near the difficulty of the first or third, and is thus the issue. Holding a reticule in a box and pressing shoot takes more effort than equipping ecm. or standing near a teammate that used no real effert to equip ecm

[Pygar]

TruePoindexter, on 13 December 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Me thinks you didn't read what I said. Unless you're saying that you will never equip TAG and never play with teammates in which case yes - ECM has made LRMs useless for the solo hero. Of course solo hero's are useless too so there's that.

LRMs are more amazing now than ever. Between their recent damage buff and how people no longer use cover like they should because of ECM you can really crush a team with some basic coordination.

Yeah this- LRMs are much more scarce in 8v8 games, but they aren't gone. There are ways to work around ECM, and there are also ways for the enemy to mess up and not realize they have left their ECM bubble until it's too late.

[Nathan Bloodguard]

Thontor, on 13 December 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Uneven teams happen when the game crashes for people after they find a match, but before the game loads.

Has nothing o do with how many players are in the pool the matchmaker picks from.

If it can't find enough players, you would get an "unable to find a match" box pop up. Or something like that.

Not talking about unable to find a match, or the disconneting people. More so talking about the lack of players in the map itself. Just saying 7vs8 including disconnects and error huds/screens. To try and be more clear, I mean there are seven pilot names on one side, and eight pilot names on the other side, connected or disconnected.

[3rdworld]

Nathan Bloodguard, on 13 December 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

Not talking about unable to find a match, or the disconneting people. More so talking about the lack of players in the map itself. Just saying 7vs8 including disconnects and error huds/screens. To try and be more clear, I mean there are seven pilot names on one side, and eight pilot names on the other side, connected or disconnected.

Certain crashes cause this. You see it in 8v8 as well (when a full group is required).

[Zylo]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 December 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

TL;DR-
- Whether ECM is broken or not will not matter, if players keep leaving at the rate they are: Please offline ECM on the upcoming patch until you can find a manner that IS "Acceptable" to the masses. And kindly add a Weight Balancer to 8 man ques/ Limit 4 man ques to one "Pre-Made" group per side.

Also, I am aware some will cry about the "limited options in the poll invalidates them". Pure BS by those looking to complain (And that only a small number of players actually bother voting, thing is, it seems we only HAVE a small number of players left). Sometimes adding too many shades of gray invalidates them by making no clear answer. It is pretty simple, there are yes/no questions in life, and the ones being asked, much like in a court of law are simple yes/no. You can always abstain.

I still prefer seeing more ECM mechs in games than games filled with Streak A1 cats.

Turning off ECM won't help because players will go back to running teams of Streak A1 cats and others will run the LRM boats.

Limiting a single pre-made group per side (matching sizes of pre-made teams would be ideal) would help balance matches and prevent sync-drop "exploits" to get 2x 4player pre-made groups on a team.

[Nathan Bloodguard]

OK got you guys now, it just sounded like you where more or less saying the could not find a match message. I have never knowingly seen this bug yet... but that might be the two times i have black screen with no sound, and still in window not full screen...

[Bishop Steiner]

Koreanese, on 13 December 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

Yet another post about ecm and balance crying. Can someone actually put a legitimate post about something useful in this forum for once? Humans adapt to things. Cold weather? Put lot of clothes on. Too hot? Take them off. Ecm in game? Use lasers and ballistics. Simple as that. It dont take much brain power to adapt to changing dynamics of the game.

why don't you actually try reading the post and the point of it Koreanese. Seriously. People answering in ignorance to a post is far worse than the number of "ignorant" posts out there.

I don't want ECM nerfed. For the 10,000th time. BUT what I want will be irrelevant if we keep losing new blood and OLD blood at the rate we have bled out since the ECM patch.

ECM in and of itself is not the problem;
Matchmaking is not the problem.
Trial Mechs are not the problem.

But combine all 3 together, and we have a problem which is noticeably thinning our already less than innumerable ranks.

I am not saying "get rid of ECM", or anything else. I am saying perform TRIAGE to save the patient, and then work to bring ECM and the like to fruition in a manner that DOESN'T emasculate the game in one fell patch. (Perhaps before installing any more level 2 tech, finally adding proper training/tutorial so that the learning curve is not so daunting to new players?)

Koreanese, on 13 December 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

Yet another post about ecm and balance crying. Can someone actually put a legitimate post about something useful in this forum for once? Humans adapt to things. Cold weather? Put lot of clothes on. Too hot? Take them off. Ecm in game? Use lasers and ballistics. Simple as that. It dont take much brain power to adapt to changing dynamics of the game.

why don't you actually try reading the post and the point of it Koreanese. Seriously. People answering in ignorance to a post is far worse than the number of "ignorant" posts out there.

I don't want ECM nerfed. For the 10,000th time. BUT what I want will be irrelevant if we keep losing new blood and OLD blood at the rate we have bled out since the ECM patch.

ECM in and of itself is not the problem;
Matchmaking is not the problem.
Trial Mechs are not the problem.

But combine all 3 together, and we have a problem which is noticeably thinning our already less than innumerable ranks.

I am not saying "get rid of ECM", or anything else. I am saying perform TRIAGE to save the patient, and then work to bring ECM and the like to fruition in a manner that DOESN'T emasculate the game in one fell patch. (Perhaps before installing any more level 2 tech, finally adding proper training/tutorial so that the learning curve is not so daunting to new players?)

Koreanese, on 13 December 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

Yet another post about ecm and balance crying. Can someone actually put a legitimate post about something useful in this forum for once? Humans adapt to things. Cold weather? Put lot of clothes on. Too hot? Take them off. Ecm in game? Use lasers and ballistics. Simple as that. It dont take much brain power to adapt to changing dynamics of the game.

why don't you actually try reading the post and the point of it Koreanese. Seriously. People answering in ignorance to a post is far worse than the number of "ignorant" posts out there.

I don't want ECM nerfed. For the 10,000th time. BUT what I want will be irrelevant if we keep losing new blood and OLD blood at the rate we have bled out since the ECM patch.

ECM in and of itself is not the problem;
Matchmaking is not the problem.
Trial Mechs are not the problem.

But combine all 3 together, and we have a problem which is noticeably thinning our already less than innumerable ranks.

I am not saying "get rid of ECM", or anything else. I am saying perform TRIAGE to save the patient, and then work to bring ECM and the like to fruition in a manner that DOESN'T emasculate the game in one fell patch. (Perhaps before installing any more level 2 tech, finally adding proper training/tutorial so that the learning curve is not so daunting to new players?)

[Ghogiel]

I voted no no yes.

Really there is zero proof that ECM is driving people away. Just buy a DDC or a 3L and you can ECM too.

8v8s. Bring your best or go home.

But throwing 4mans on opposite teams in pugs would be good.

I voted no no yes.

Really there is zero proof that ECM is driving people away. Just buy a DDC or a 3L and you can ECM too.

8v8s. Bring your best or go home.

But throwing 4mans on opposite teams in pugs would be good.

I voted no no yes.

Really there is zero proof that ECM is driving people away. Just buy a DDC or a 3L and you can ECM too.

8v8s. Bring your best or go home.

But throwing 4mans on opposite teams in pugs would be good.

I voted no no yes.

Really there is zero proof that ECM is driving people away. Just buy a DDC or a 3L and you can ECM too.

8v8s. Bring your best or go home.

But throwing 4mans on opposite teams in pugs would be good.

I voted no no yes.

Really there is zero proof that ECM is driving people away. Just buy a DDC or a 3L and you can ECM too.

8v8s. Bring your best or go home.

But throwing 4mans on opposite teams in pugs would be good.

[Doommetal]

This poll comes too late, all the early ECM polls showed 2/3rds in favor of reworking ECM, alot of those people are gone, I can see it in my rather extensive friends list all the people who no longer log in.

I dont like ECM, yes I USED to run 2x streaks on my fav build to kill lights, ive adapted, but I still think the invisibility is stupid, and they really really really need to fix the netcode or put knockdowns back in, lights shouldnt be 1000+ damage dealers and brawling in matches, because of the difficulty in landing a hit when they are running around you in circles at full speed.

ECM didnt revolutionize tactics in this game, it pigeonholed them.

Just my opinion.

And finally, those of you telling LRM users to learn to aim, learn to use cover, if you where getting killed by LRMs alot, you have a serious problem with your tactical decision making, if you are so good at aiming fire from cover at range. my 70 year old grandmother can dodge LRMs at the speed they move.

[Nightfangs]

Hate me for saying it... but how should a system that somewhat masks your own heat signature hide your whole team from enemy sensors? We don't need fairydust-technology in this game.
And I don't see that huge tactical impact either, apart from "more ECMs = more win".
The idea behind the ECM IS interesting and certainly makes the game better, but that doesn't mean that it's OPness can be tolerated. Balance it we will enjoy it.
But joining a game, looking around, seeing no friendly ECMs and knowing that you probably will get your arse wipped is not what I yould call balance.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

3rdworld, on 13 December 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

You cannot get a lock until 200m. So any LRMs are negated save for a 20m window. It isn't a lie, it is the practical application of the ECM vs LRMs.

Remember folks. That piece of equipment with a 180m range, stops you targeting at 1000m

Use tag [Redacted]

Edited by Niko Snow, 13 December 2012 - 11:05 PM.
Insults

[Mongoose Trueborn]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 December 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

why don't you actually try reading the post and the point of it Koreanese. Seriously. People answering in ignorance to a post is far worse than the number of "ignorant" posts out there.

I don't want ECM nerfed. For the 10,000th time. BUT what I want will be irrelevant if we keep losing new blood and OLD blood at the rate we have bled out since the ECM patch.

ECM in and of itself is not the problem;
Matchmaking is not the problem.
Trial Mechs are not the problem.

But combine all 3 together, and we have a problem which is noticeably thinning our already less than innumerable ranks.

I am not saying "get rid of ECM", or anything else. I am saying perform TRIAGE to save the patient, and then work to bring ECM and the like to fruition in a manner that DOESN'T emasculate the game in one fell patch. (Perhaps before installing any more level 2 tech, finally adding proper training/tutorial so that the learning curve is not so daunting to new players?)


why don't you actually try reading the post and the point of it Koreanese. Seriously. People answering in ignorance to a post is far worse than the number of "ignorant" posts out there.

I don't want ECM nerfed. For the 10,000th time. BUT what I want will be irrelevant if we keep losing new blood and OLD blood at the rate we have bled out since the ECM patch.

ECM in and of itself is not the problem;
Matchmaking is not the problem.
Trial Mechs are not the problem.

But combine all 3 together, and we have a problem which is noticeably thinning our already less than innumerable ranks.

I am not saying "get rid of ECM", or anything else. I am saying perform TRIAGE to save the patient, and then work to bring ECM and the like to fruition in a manner that DOESN'T emasculate the game in one fell patch. (Perhaps before installing any more level 2 tech, finally adding proper training/tutorial so that the learning curve is not so daunting to new players?)


why don't you actually try reading the post and the point of it Koreanese. Seriously. People answering in ignorance to a post is far worse than the number of "ignorant" posts out there.

I don't want ECM nerfed. For the 10,000th time. BUT what I want will be irrelevant if we keep losing new blood and OLD blood at the rate we have bled out since the ECM patch.

ECM in and of itself is not the problem;
Matchmaking is not the problem.
Trial Mechs are not the problem.

But combine all 3 together, and we have a problem which is noticeably thinning our already less than innumerable ranks.

I am not saying "get rid of ECM", or anything else. I am saying perform TRIAGE to save the patient, and then work to bring ECM and the like to fruition in a manner that DOESN'T emasculate the game in one fell patch. (Perhaps before installing any more level 2 tech, finally adding proper training/tutorial so that the learning curve is not so daunting to new players?)

Koreanese isn't in my clan but I bet he would wtfbbq you in any mech 1v1. Just my opinion but I think that anyone that wins is right and those that lose should ****.

[Postumus]

Glythe, on 13 December 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

If ECM isn't broken then 8 Commando 2D's won't automatically win against a team made entirely of the other variants. Oh wait sorry Guess ECM is broken.

Well I guess ECM isn't broken then. I eat ECM commandos for breakfast in my atlas, centurion, raven.... It could use some tweaking though, but luckily thats what beta is all about, and I can guarantee that ECM will be changed, just like every other part of the game has since closed beta started. Go ahead, ask me about 150 k/m small laser hunchies.
Death to boats. Long live the new mechs.

[Pygar]

Nightfangs, on 13 December 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

But joining a game, looking around, seeing no friendly ECMs and knowing that you probably will get your arse wipped is not what I yould call balance.

Stop PUG'ing and start playing on teams.

I've noticed several trends with people who just can't stop complaining about ECM, and it seems to boil down to players who use missiles almost exclusively, players that play in PUGs almost exclusively, or both.

The game is heavily geared toward teamwork, and playing on organized teams versus playing totally random PUG matches is night and day.

[nom de guerre]

Postumus, on 13 December 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

Well I guess ECM isn't broken then. I eat ECM commandos for breakfast in my atlas, centurion, raven.... It could use some tweaking though, but luckily thats what beta is all about, and I can guarantee that ECM will be changed, just like every other part of the game has since closed beta started. Go ahead, ask me about 150 k/m small laser hunchies.
Death to boats. Long live the new mechs.

exactly, we weren't even running ECM equipped mechs this morning and we were still winning as often as with ecm.

[topgun505]

True .... but people are still using them. The difference now is they are resorting to ECM so they can still use their crutch while denying the same thing to the other side.

The problem with that is that it encourages mass quantity of ECM-lights in order to ensure that your side has more than theirs so you can continue to use your SSRMs.

It developed into a monochromatic arms race. Definitely NOT good for the game.

The big fix is to fix the net code so you can actually HIT what your are aiming at (or realistically leading), and bring back knockdowns. But I'm guessing those fixes are a ways off. In the mean time I don't think you would have to remove ECM ... all you would need to do is remove the stacking effect so that taking more than 2 ECM-equipped mechs (one running disrupt while the other runs counter) would have no additional impact on the game. Wouldn't be an ultimate solution but it would probably work well enough for the time being.

AlexWildeagle, on 13 December 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

Leave ECM alone. It works just fine it's not the problem.

The problem is LRMs and SSRMs, no they are not overpowered, they were/are overused and people got used to relying too heavily on them.

[IceSerpent]

Nightfangs, on 13 December 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Hate me for saying it... but how should a system that somewhat masks your own heat signature hide your whole team from enemy sensors?

Sorry, you lost me here - what system "somewhat masks your own heat signature" in MWO?

[Arkhangel]

Look, for all the people bitching about it driving away noobs and such? may i draw your attention to EVE Online, a fellow MMO with an even higher learning curve. the company that makes it, CCP, focuses on making the game as good and CHALLENGING as possible. if you can't adapt, what the hell are you doing piloting a mech? you are a MechWARRIOR, you adapt to the battlefield, the Battlefield is not meant to adapt to you.

[Pygar]

topgun505, on 13 December 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

It developed into a monochromatic arms race. Definitely NOT good for the game.

The balance problem is because there is no "scissors" to go with the "rock" and "paper" we currently have....but coming in the near future we will have a buff to TAG, and coming later will be command assets like recon drones and air/artillery strikes, as well as more maps, mechs, and modes to throw into the mix. Right now there's so few options that any major meta shift will turn into a "monochromatic arms race"- including nerfing or removing ECM. (We'l just go back to missile spam instead)

[QuantumButler]

I'm of the opnion that ECM as it is right now is fine, so I voted no to that part, though I think maybe it should be limited to the current lights it's on and the Cicada ONLY [removed from DDC, MAYBE give it to a dragon variant to make the Dragon a more attractive mech, it is sub par atm.]

However the 8 mans need some sort of weight balancing drastically, it's true, and limiting 1 premade per side should make things fairer for the pugs and keep people from cheesing the system to 8man pugstomp.