269 replies to this topic

[Kousagi]

Before ECM was put in, scouting was pointless, cause you knew where the whole other team was pretty easy. my streak cat with a BAP and sensor mod could pick people up at 1.2k out. What need was there for a light mech? I didn't depend on teamwork, there was no need for it.

Now with ECM, scouting has once again become something you have to do. Light mechs have to find the enemy, spot targets, and play distraction. Teamwork is back in place. So keep ECM, for the sake of teamwork.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Asakara, on 13 December 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

I say no to suspending ECM. I am happy with how it functions.

I do think they should maybe add in a tonnage limit for 8 mans..

Say 500, 550, or 600 tons cap per side, requiring all 8 players be in a mech. With 500 you could get 4 atlases and 4 commandos at the extreme end.

I say an ecm cap. Only so many ecm mechs allowed per drop

[HammerForge]

I say no to suspending the ECM, because my feeling is that any data on ECM's is useless until the net code/lag shield is fixed. The major issue with ECM has been that SSRMs are needed to hit the fast, little mechs and that SSRMs can't be used if they have ECM. Once you can reliably hit these mechs, the major problems seem to go away in my mind.

Voted no on the 8 man drops...let teams drop into battle with whatever config of forces they want as long as numbers on weight categories match, like I believe the currently need to.

Voted no on the one premade group per side in pug match, I see no problem if a 2 premades end up droping against 2 premades, I do think the numbers in the premade groups should match up though. So if one side has 1 premade group, so should the other, if one side has 2 premade groups, so should the other...etc.

[Jason1138]

ECM is fine. consistently amazed at how many people cry about it

[Krazyjim]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 December 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

I play damn near ten hours a day.

Dude....

[Blastrivet]

First off I'm a PUG, I've only been playing the game on and off for a month now. I get on the game at night and play for a couple hours. I don't have any friends on my account and I still enjoy the game. I've play all the mechs at least once and when I first started I used the trial ones. Are they good? I don't know, they gave me an opportunity to learn what each one had to offer without an expense cost when I got totaled in a match. And I got totaled A LOT, still do. I decided to go with the medium class mechs for speed and versatility. I started out with the Cicada and after I unlocked all 8 upgrades in 3 variants, I moved on to the Hunchback. Why? Because missiles were awesome and still are. The Cicada doesn't have a missile option or at least not one that I've found. So with that said:

ECM - is it pain? Yeah it is. It's completely changed the way I've been playing for 3 weeks. I traded out my LRM Hunchback and picked up the laser boat. Now I run 9 medium lasers and as many double heat sinks as I can. I don't hang out in the back and rain down missiles, I run in and brawl with the enemy mechs, spending a lot of time running around terrain and shooting off shots so I survive long enough to do some damage and help my team. Do I think it needs to be removed and tweaked; maybe. It is a game changer, but I don't think it breaks it either. Just like any new game mechanic, you learn what it is, how it works, what it does, figure out a way to beat it and carry on. For me, the casual gamer, that's what games are all about.

8mans, 4mans, and weights variants - I've never grouped, I'm sure they're out there, I guess I just don't notice them. Yeah I've been in matches where the other team consisted of only heavy and assault mechs and it sucked. But I sit and watch other people play in spectator mode after I've been defeated and learn what other players do. I've learned not to rush out there, that there's safety in numbers, focus fire and aim for the legs.

I think you've made some good comments and I agree with some. I haven't cast my vote and that's because those factors don't bother me. I still play the game, I still have a fun time and I'll continue to play; whether those 3 points are still in the game as is or get changed. Now for the noobie player picking up the game for the first time, hardest thing about the game in my eyes, is the learning curve. I wish there was a better explanation of weapons and damage ratios. I think for the new player just coming in, they need to play with other new players. Unfortunately there isn't a level system like LoL that can control that. But I think that would help.

Just my 2 cents.

[Horned Bull]

1. No. I don't want to see "the side with more streakcats wins" again.
2. Yes. From what I heard 8-man drops are all about ECM (and base capping) or Atlas-stacking now.
3. Yes. There is nothing worse than getting steamrolled by synch-droppers. There is special place in hell for people who want to win easy games against pubs.

[SpiralRazor]

I voted yes for everything.



The vote for the ECM is nothing but trolling fanbois.....there was already a poll for if ECM was overpowered, and it was clearly and overwhelmingly voted "yes, its OP"

[Wispsy]

ECM is only "too strong" because missiles are so strong....taking ECM out means it is missiles only again instead of missiles amd ECM.
No to weight matching, there are plenty of viable roles and setups and strats people are just ECM Streak fixated right now which happens to also be on an Atlas and a Raven the two heaviest mechs in their weight classes with multiple missile hardpoints.
I would like it if it put a 4man against a 4man instead of adding them together then finding 8 pugs.

Edited by Wispsy, 13 December 2012 - 09:55 AM.

[SpiralRazor]

Korm, on 13 December 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

1. No. I don't want to see "the side with more streakcats wins" again.
2. Yes. From what I heard 8-man drops are all about ECM (and base capping) or Atlas-stacking now.
3. Yes. There is nothing worse than getting steamrolled by synch-droppers. There is special place in hell for people who want to win easy games against pubs.

Streaks are being fixed independently of ECM.

That being said, ECM doesnt need to be removed, it just needs to go back to the functional level of BAP/TAG....Nice to have, but not required.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 13 December 2012 - 09:56 AM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Kousagi, on 13 December 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Before ECM was put in, scouting was pointless, cause you knew where the whole other team was pretty easy. my streak cat with a BAP and sensor mod could pick people up at 1.2k out. What need was there for a light mech? I didn't depend on teamwork, there was no need for it.

Now with ECM, scouting has once again become something you have to do. Light mechs have to find the enemy, spot targets, and play distraction. Teamwork is back in place. So keep ECM, for the sake of teamwork.

This is another thing that could have been accomplished without the ECM not being jesus in a box.

SpiralRazor, on 13 December 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

Streaks are being fixed independently of ECM.

How so? Putting the ECM "was" their solution to the Streakpult problem. They didn't touch Streaks otherwise and if you pull out the ECM, Streaks are just as broken as before. They should have been balanced independently of ECM, but that isn't what we got.

[Koreanese]

Yet another post about ecm and balance crying. Can someone actually put a legitimate post about something useful in this forum for once? Humans adapt to things. Cold weather? Put lot of clothes on. Too hot? Take them off. Ecm in game? Use lasers and ballistics. Simple as that. It dont take much brain power to adapt to changing dynamics of the game.

[Asakara]

Jacmac, on 13 December 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

I would say more like 250-350 tons per side. Maybe we need multiple weight limit options available? 500-600 is way too heavy in my opinion.

Each to our own... The way I see it, with such a low limit you somewhat remove any option for an assault. With 350 ton limit and 1 atlas, you still need to find mechs for 7 other people using the remaining 250 tons.. On average that would be 35 tons each.

[IceSerpent]

@OP: You don't have enough options in the poll, so I didn't vote - here's my take on things:

1. ECM needs to be tweaked a bit, but there's no reason to disable it while devs are doing the tweaking.
2. All drops (8-man and PUG) need to be balanced by BV of some kind, balancing by weight is not a good idea.
3. This kind of a limit would create an imbalance when you have a 2-man group on one side and 4-man group on the other.

[Konrad]

I think ECM is fine. I think the drop weight vs 8 mans is fine.

PS I think all your poll options are poor.

[Horned Bull]

IceSerpent, on 13 December 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

3. This kind of a limit would create an imbalance when you have a 2-man group on one side and 4-man group on the other.

still better than the current state of affairs. Now you can expect a synch-drop/multiple groups on one side against a full pug team.

[Glythe]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 December 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

The fact is, that in reality, in use and implementation, ECM is not "Broken". Anymore than any any huge advance in Military Tech is. But what it does, is requires players to focus more on information warfare and counter-measures, than raw fighting, and it does make things considerably more difficult, requiring a whole new set of tactics, etc. It does make it hard (I like the challenge actually, and LOVE how the other side folds when I kill the ECM, and their "Cloak of Invulnerability" (in their mind) goes POOF)

If ECM isn't broken then 8 Commando 2D's won't automatically win against a team made entirely of the other variants. Oh wait sorry Guess ECM is broken.

ECM needs to be balanced per team as a slot all its own. In that regard make ALL ECM mechs equal. If you have one ECM the enemy gets one. (In the same way that right now if you have 2 assaults the enemy team has 2 assaults).

OR ECM needs a counter that is not itself. TAG does not work due to range limit (needs a toggle on AND no range) and NARC is ridiculous due to the short duration. Any NARC duration less than 2 minutes isn't worth considering.

The other way you could balance ECM is by making SSRMs/LRMs mutually exclusive with an ECM. Then you can have your shield but you can't have cheese mode with no aim missiles as well.

[Pygar]

Voted no on ECM, yes on the other two:

Right now ECM is dominating the meta, but I think that it only looks OP because of lack of other options rather than it working badly. The way ECM is pushing teamwork is very interesting on the battlefield right now, but there needs to be a countermeasure besides "moar ECM mechs" and they are already looking into making some of the advanced sensor systems like TAG and NARC better.

The big things that are really missing in the current "ECM turtle" meta are on the road map- recon drones and Aerospace/Artillery strikes. With those kind of "Command" assets in play I think the way ECM works now would make perfect sense.

And yes, tonnage limits on 8v8s help the ECM problem too- because part of the problem is the nasty little scouts...but the bigger problem is how too many people not flying a scout are resorting to the D-DC as their weapon of choice leading to really predictable 8v8 groups. (the battles are still fun, but too much homogeny in mech/team strats right now)

Edited by Pygar, 13 December 2012 - 10:14 AM.

[Glythe]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 December 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

The fact is, that in reality, in use and implementation, ECM is not "Broken". Anymore than any any huge advance in Military Tech is. But what it does, is requires players to focus more on information warfare and counter-measures, than raw fighting, and it does make things considerably more difficult, requiring a whole new set of tactics, etc. It does make it hard (I like the challenge actually, and LOVE how the other side folds when I kill the ECM, and their "Cloak of Invulnerability" (in their mind) goes POOF)

If ECM isn't broken then 8 Commando 2D's won't automatically win against a team made entirely of the other variants. Oh wait sorry Guess ECM is broken.

ECM needs to be balanced per team as a slot all its own. In that regard make ALL ECM mechs equal. If you have one ECM the enemy gets one. (In the same way that right now if you have 2 assaults the enemy team has 2 assaults).

OR ECM needs a counter that is not itself. TAG does not work due to range limit (needs a toggle on AND no range) and NARC is ridiculous due to the short duration. Any NARC duration less than 2 minutes isn't worth considering.

The other way you could balance ECM is by making SSRMs/LRMs mutually exclusive with an ECM. Then you can have your shield but you can't have cheese mode with no aim missiles as well.

[Stoicblitzer]

Like Bishop, I don't think ECM is a huge deal. However, There needs to be some sort of matching happening for pug games like number of premades on each side should try to be equal before adding in lone wolves. If we have 4, there should be a 4 man on the other team, not on our team because then it's almost always a roflstomp. What if you have 2x 2man premades and the matchmaker says OK that team has 2x premades and then pits them against 2x 4man premades to make the premade number equal? Might still be roflstomp. To prevent sync dropping, they could have a random delay generated when premades click launch before they are thrown into the matchmaker. This might alleviate the problem during prime time but at like 4am, it will probably end up with similar results. Maybe a combo of the two? Or maybe we should just shut up and wait for our ELO savior?