67 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

According to what I've gathered form the Live Tweet today, there will be no damage bleed-over from one destroyed compartment to another, and there will be no leg dismemberment...

...so what happens when you continuously nail a crippled Mech in its damaged leg? Does the leg become an invincible bullet-sponge? I'm sure there'll eventually be a solution implemented to deal with this, but I don't see any large BattleMechs using a "damaged" leg as a cane while that leg is constantly being fired upon by missile-after-missile after it's already gone "critical" and all of the actuators have failed...

There should certainly be a point where "critical" leg damage would result in a gimping Mech just as the Devs have outlined in their Tweets. However, I feel that sustained fire upon that damaged Leg should eventually result in the inability of that Mech to stand, whatsoever. I mean imagine that leg's structural components literally folding up and collapsing like crumpled paper under the weight of a gimping Mech after it takes "more-than-critical" damage. You can't use that as a crutch; it's collapsed!

I'm just saying that if you Gimp both legs, it should count as a Kill, but if you continuously fire upon a single gimp'd leg, then that leg should get become more damaged than it already is and result in the inability to walk anywhere at all.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 16 May 2012 - 05:46 PM.

[Gigaton]

Hopefully you can at least shoot through the destroyed leg so that it'd doesn't become a damage sponge that can be used to shield the intact leg. Eventual structural collapse under fire is fine too, but perhaps not important enough to be a launch goal.

Edited by Gigaton, 16 May 2012 - 05:16 PM.

[Kanatta Jing]

The Devs decided Fun > Logic on this one and I can't really blame them.

Apparently you get XP for Disabling enemy Mechs as well as killing them.

So yeah, blow out both of an Atlas's legs and then just go around it. Why not?

[Morashtak]

Ever decreasing speed might be the answer. And it's probably not much of an issue if turning speed is affected as well - If you can't turn around in time you're getting your rear armor shredded.

For Arm => Torso => CT bleed over it may be introduced later. Would expect it to be. But for right now the "what's the firing angle to target" and all that is one of their lesser priorities. Thinking they're keeping it simple for MVP launch then add bleed over as they polish the damage assessment and assignment code.

[Gigaton]

Kanatta Jing, on 16 May 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

The Devs decided Fun > Logic on this one and I can't really blame them.

Destroyed sections acting as invulnerable damage sponges is no fun though, well at least I don't think it is.

I'm hoping that when they said that damage will not be transfered they mean there won't be tabletop style system but that a weapon attack can still pass through a destroyed section as if that section was not there (might look bit silly with missiles and such, but oh well).

Edited by Gigaton, 16 May 2012 - 05:26 PM.

[Kanatta Jing]

Gigaton, on 16 May 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

Destroyed sections acting as invulnerable damage sponges is no fun though, well at least I don't think it is.

I'm hoping that when they said that damage will not be transfered they mean there won't be tabletop style system but that a weapon can still pass through a destroyed section as if that section was not there.

Yeah, it's best if dead parts don't have collision.

[Tterrag]

Wait if there is no blowing the legs out from under mechs I'm gonna have to rethink my scout harass strategy

[Kyuui]

Prosperity Park, on 16 May 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

A I feel that sustained fire upon that damaged Leg should eventually result in the inability of that Mech to stand, whatsoever.

one major issue with this, ok well 2, the leg is dead, why continue to fire upon it.? Because with damage bleed over its a quick way to take out a mech with little effort, core the leg then nuke that leg to hell and back for a kill? Thats what would be rampant and damn quick even more so in some cases. Got the leg on the atlas? why bother with the chest when you can core him from the leg.
While the no bleed over is a bit of bummer, its got a good logic behind it, to avoid the cheap tactic of alpha coring a leg then doing it again for the easy kill. Skill will have to come in to play to kill a mech, of any size.

Ok so it was one...

.<S>

[Solis Obscuri]

Kyuui, on 16 May 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

one major issue with this, ok well 2, the leg is dead, why continue to fire upon it.? Because with damage bleed over its a quick way to take out a mech with little effort, core the leg then nuke that leg to hell and back for a kill? Thats what would be rampant and damn quick even more so in some cases. Got the leg on the atlas? why bother with the chest when you can core him from the leg.
While the no bleed over is a bit of bummer, its got a good logic behind it, to avoid the cheap tactic of alpha coring a leg then doing it again for the easy kill. Skill will have to come in to play to kill a mech, of any size.

Ok so it was one...

.<S>

Well, the Atlas has 62 points of integrity in the leg... which would then have to spread through the 53 points of integrity in the side torso (or 32 from the rear), and then through the 78 points of CT integrity (45 from rear) in order to core it. So that's 193 points of damage (139 if attacking rear) to core an Atlas... It doesn't sound unbalanced. Doesn't even sound remotely efficient.

[Belisarius1]

Honestly I think this is a bit silly. The leg shouldn't become an invincible damage sponge once it's been crippled.

If it rolls onto CT armour (or even the other leg, then CT armour) it becomes so inefficient to kill a 'mech by shooting its leg that it's pretty much a non-issue, but you avoid adding a damage black hole.

[Fooooo]

Sorta on the fence on this one.

On one hand I don't like 100% dmg transfer, i'd prefer a lowered amount. (never played TT so don't know if its actually 100% tranfered there or not)

On the other hand I'd prefer no dmg transfer, As why should my core blowup from you shooting my leg? (unless your using some sort of explosive round ofc ) It also draws matches out a tiny bit longer and forces better aim or better positioning to "get a shot on another part" etc.

Still, on the fence so I don't mind which way they do it.

[Ramien]

In TT, there was damage transfer because hits were randomly allocated, and it sucks to see a 'hit' turn into a miss because you rolled a section you'd already destroyed.

In MWO, our shots will not be randomly assigned, so damage transfer isn't as needed. If you've destroyed your opponent's leg and they can no longer maneuver, get behind them and start taking out that back armor for the kill. Your aiming determines where the damage is placed, not the roll of the dice.

[Siilk]

So let me get this straight. "Destroyed" leg would become invulnerable? "Destroyed" side torso could be used to absorb enemy fire and act as an impenetrable shield? Two "destroyed" legs makes mech count as killed? Now that's the worst possible way to deal with mech parts damage. WORST. POSSIBLE. WAY. Even MW4 damage model wasn't that moronic. Way to go, PGI, way to go!

[Heron]

The idea of hitting an opponent and Not dealing damage is a concern but a great deal of games employ this concept. Many enemies can only be damaged by hitting specific areas known as weak points. Battletech uses this concept in reverse: Instead of the majority of a foe being invincible the entirety of a mech is vulnerable. When a section of a mech is crippled that weakpoint becomes exhausted and can no longer be used to damage the mech.
Pilots need to be adaptable. When a section is crippled move on and focus on other sections.

Siilk, on 17 May 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Two "destroyed" legs makes mech count as killed?

A Mech that cannot walk cannot fight. The Devs don't want to deal with "falling over" physics right now.

A crippled section of a mech should never be considered a good thing. When segments start going dark its time to make sure the ejection lever is still around.

Edited by Heron, 17 May 2012 - 12:49 AM.

[neodym]

thats bullcrap,any mech with leg thats been fired on past crippled stage should totaly fall of and make the mech "dead"

I am dissapointed


lol MW2 anyone?

Edited by neodym, 17 May 2012 - 01:31 AM.

[Belisarius1]

Siilk, on 17 May 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

So let me get this straight. "Destroyed" leg would become invulnerable? "Destroyed" side torso could be used to absorb enemy fire and act as an impenetrable shield? Two "destroyed" legs makes mech count as killed? Now that's the worst possible way to deal with mech parts damage. WORST. POSSIBLE. WAY. Even MW4 damage model wasn't that moronic. Way to go, PGI, way to go!

I honestly don't believe they're using that system. I was scared at first, but I really think they're smarter than that. Legs, maybe. Side torsos? Surely not.

[Perfecto Oviedo]

Ramien, on 16 May 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

In TT, there was damage transfer because hits were randomly allocated, and it sucks to see a 'hit' turn into a miss because you rolled a section you'd already destroyed.

In MWO, our shots will not be randomly assigned, so damage transfer isn't as needed. If you've destroyed your opponent's leg and they can no longer maneuver, get behind them and start taking out that back armor for the kill. Your aiming determines where the damage is placed, not the roll of the dice.

That's essentially how I feel about damage transfer.

[Banditman]

If you hit the leg, you hit the leg. This isn't hard to work out. While I do agree that it doesn't make much sense for the leg to not fall off, I understand why they did it that way.

By the same token, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever for a shot that hits the leg to damage the CT or whatever. You hit the leg, and damaged the CT? Why not the head? Or the Right Arm?

Consider the ultimate goal here. The ultimate goal here is to kill the reactor and shut the mech down. That's really the goal. Why are we even talking about legs? Our goal is to shut that mech down completely, not turn it into a slow moving turret.

Legging was not fun. Really, it wasn't. It just pissed people off. In some cases it was almost inevitable (Timber Wolf was almost impossible to NOT leg in Netmech). It didn't create good gameplay, regardless of it's "realism" or whatever.

[ManDaisy]

Great I can see the min/ maxers munchins now. No leg armor, slow engine speed so "no real dif between damaged legs and fresh", max heat sinks, and boating up the wazzu with weapons/ missiles . Gah I hate this. If they mean no damage redirection by having the part Blown off completely then fine, but to act as a damage sponge, that kills another sponge, if you know what I mean.

Edited by ManDaisy, 17 May 2012 - 05:15 AM.

[Mechteric]

I'd wonder if when you "destroy" one leg, the limping start, what happens if you continue to fire at that leg? Will damage magically fade away, or will it start to damage the other leg's armor? Once both legs are "destroyed" does that count as the mech going down as a "kill", or is the only way to kill a mech through its torsos/head?