1329 replies to this topic

[Vulpesveritas]

Remorce, on 10 June 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

The EVGA marketplace is a sort of swap meet if you will. Its where members of the community sell/trade their hardware, or advertise what they want to buy. Just yesterday a 580 sold for 220 bucks.

To op, Its pretty clear that I think you are crazy and wrong, and you think the same of me so I don't think it would get us anywhere by arguing more points back and forth cause each side has its own merits.

There is also a pair of 480's going for 125 bucks a piece right now. Can find some great deals. If anybody is interested, i'll give you the link. However, you do have to have 50 posts to access that area to prevent spam/scamming.

That's hardly retail though. TPU, HardOCP, and many other hardware websites do the same thing, selling used or collected hardware to other users. But all price listings here, and this guide is based on, current retail prices and values. Not everyone trusts those websites (I do, but good luck convincing say, my grandma for an example) and also there is no guarantee there will be someone there still selling them at that price in say, a month, whereas retail values rarely change quickly.

And... how exactly am I crazy and wrong for using what data is in one of the most in depth review sites, giving legitimate links, bringing up points of tasks people might be doing other than gaming, but making gaming the main focus, and using retail data instead of speculative data?

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 10 June 2012 - 06:43 PM.

[CynicalCyanide]

If i could make a suggestion?

Move your 'consideration list' and your benchmarks into your first post, then your GPUPU points & your brand listings to the 2nd post. This ensures that your first post delves straight into the topic, while your second covers secondary considerations.

Aside from that - Maybe i'm not the typical gamer so i can't comment - But i don't like the concept of recommending people pay extra for overclocked cards. Overclocking has always traditionally been a way to unlock free performance, and the fact that factory overclocked cards are often very conservatively clocked anyway makes it seem like a waste of money when it's easy and useful to learn how to overclock yourself.

Also: I would seriously suggest dropping Nvidia 6xx series from the GPUPU compute list. If anyone is considering GPUPU compute, then they'd be vastly better off with one of the recommended cards above it.

Lastly, I'd like to give a mention to Tomshardware's article here: http://www.tomshardw...eview,3107.html

It is essentially the exact same thing we're trying to do here, so it would certainly be a respectable and up to date 2nd opinion to double check any purchases you fellow forumites are considering. Maybe it might help dissolve accusations of fanboyism as well.

Happy gaming

Edited by iron wolf, 11 June 2012 - 08:38 AM.

[Koshadows]

Its such a pity that the $300 market is a pretty lame one. You either go up to $350 or just stick with the $250 7850s.

On a side note, it may be showing a bit of bias on seeing o/ced factory 7850s but no o/c nvidia cards in the higher tier. From techpowerup themselves the asus top gtx 670 is quite the card for $430ish. So as far as listing goes, I would suggest either all sticking to reference cards or list a much larger amount of factory o/c.

http://tpucdn.com/re...2_1920_1200.gif

On a total side note, the MSI 7850 power edition is finally available on tiger direct. That card looks damn sexy

[cipher]

Koshadows, on 11 June 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

Its such a pity that the $300 market is a pretty lame one. You either go up to $350 or just stick with the $250 7850s.

Indeed. You have somewhere between the 7850 and 7870 on the AMD side but both miss the $300 mark, while the 6950 covered this a year ago. The 7870 is a good card, but still over that $300 mark. On the NVIDIA side you somewhere between the 560 Ti and the 570, with the good news that the 570 dropped a bit down to $280-290 thanks to the newer cards out. But this is transition time for NVIDIA, and the 660 Ti isn't out yet, which would be the real competitor near there. Only 670 and 680, so no true $300 mark for newer cards.

[Koshadows]

Bleh! I really think nvidia dropped the ball on this one. I don't know why they decide that releasing the top 2 + a gtx 690 would be a wonderful idea instead of releasing the $200-300 kepler instead of the 690.

I feel like they don't notice that the 7850s been selling like hotcakes for the last few month. There was almost not a single week that you could find the sapphire ones cause they were always outta stock on newegg.

[cipher]

Koshadows, on 11 June 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

Bleh! I really think nvidia dropped the ball on this one. I don't know why they decide that releasing the top 2 + a gtx 690 would be a wonderful idea instead of releasing the $200-300 kepler instead of the 690.

I feel like they don't notice that the 7850s been selling like hotcakes for the last few month. There was almost not a single week that you could find the sapphire ones cause they were always outta stock on newegg.

I know the feeling. I wish the 650 and 660 Ti came before the 690. But I am glad the 680 came first, as I snatched one at release day and it blows every single GPU card away in gaming. I even lapped the stock cooler on it for a much cooler card, though I think a custom thermal compound job did more for its temps than lapping.

[Koshadows]

haha you lucky lucky man those were so rare.

One thing that I'm slightly annoyed by is with all the hype for performance, sometimes I miss my own targets. Considering i use my computer to play D3 and some hon + random games, I realized the super high end gfx cards really shouldn't matter to me that much. I mean what am I gonna do with 130 fps on sc2? not much I'd wager.

Then of course, the sheer power from the 400+ cards are just so tempting. I'm still looking at the asus 670 atm due to a bonus in my budget so i can play that bf3 at 60 fps. My epeen will be enormous for a while that's for sure.

[cipher]

Koshadows, on 11 June 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

haha you lucky lucky man those were so rare.

One thing that I'm slightly annoyed by is with all the hype for performance, sometimes I miss my own targets. Considering i use my computer to play D3 and some hon + random games, I realized the super high end gfx cards really shouldn't matter to me that much. I mean what am I gonna do with 130 fps on sc2? not much I'd wager.

Then of course, the sheer power from the 400+ cards are just so tempting. I'm still looking at the asus 670 atm due to a bonus in my budget so i can play that bf3 at 60 fps. My epeen will be enormous for a while that's for sure.

Thanks. I was very lucky. They were sold out at EVGA's site within 45 minutes on launch day, but right after that they were available on Newegg and snagged one 5 minutes before they went out of stock.

I needed the 680 for smooth max settings gaming since I run 2560x1600. For regular 1920x1080 HD it's overkill for things like Diablo III. So in D3 I use vsync and it's at 60 FPS all the time on max settings. So smooth. I came from a GTX 295 Co-Op, which i had to run most games on high to get near 60 FPS all the time. It was nice to get away from SLI, as I never really liked running multiple GPUs since every game varied in how much you got out of it. Also the upgrade path when you do SLI (or CrossfireX) is just too expensive.

Edited by cipher, 11 June 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

iron wolf, on 11 June 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

If i could make a suggestion?

Move your 'consideration list' and your benchmarks into your first post, then your GPUPU points & your brand listings to the 2nd post. This ensures that your first post delves straight into the topic, while your second covers secondary considerations.

Aside from that - Maybe i'm not the typical gamer so i can't comment - But i don't like the concept of recommending people pay extra for overclocked cards. Overclocking has always traditionally been a way to unlock free performance, and the fact that factory overclocked cards are often very conservatively clocked anyway makes it seem like a waste of money when it's easy and useful to learn how to overclock yourself.

Also: I would seriously suggest dropping Nvidia 6xx series from the GPUPU compute list. If anyone is considering GPUPU compute, then they'd be vastly better off with one of the recommended cards above it.

Lastly, I'd like to give a mention to Tomshardware's article here: http://www.tomshardw...eview,3107.html

It is essentially the exact same thing we're trying to do here, so it would certainly be a respectable and up to date 2nd opinion to double check any purchases you fellow forumites are considering. Maybe it might help dissolve accusations of fanboyism as well.

Happy gaming

The main recommendation for the 7850 PCS+ is that with the high factory overclock it brings in performance of a stock 570 while using half as much power, and with it's extra VRM it can OC higher still. Also, it is a very quiet card, and priced about the same as a stock card... so overall it is quite a good value.
Factory overclocked cards for the same cost as stock cards will generally be the better value as you get extra performance for no increase in cost.

The rest of the benchmarks with factory overclocked cards come from that they're using more up-to-date drivers than the primary reviews for graphics cards in most cases, and show the stock performance as well, so they are the more accurate samples.

Also, I figure to hopefully prevent further confusion I will move around the post.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 11 June 2012 - 03:55 PM.

[Koshadows]

Also this may be minor, but I'd like to make a point that at the $200 mark the GTX 560 should be tied to the 6870 for roughly the same price as well. http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814130664

At least according to techpowerup http://tpucdn.com/re...2_1920_1200.gif (Please only note the base 560 and not what's highlighted. I couldn't find the original review for the reference card.)

Edited by Koshadows, 11 June 2012 - 04:20 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Koshadows, on 11 June 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

Also this may be minor, but I'd like to make a point that at the $200 mark the GTX 560 should be tied to the 6870 for roughly the same price as well. http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814130664

At least according to techpowerup http://tpucdn.com/re...2_1920_1200.gif (Please only note the base 560 and not what's highlighted. I couldn't find the original review for the reference card.)

Overall performance in games is slightly higher for a Radeon HD 6870, and due to the lower power consumption on hte 6870 it generally overclocks higher. Also there is a larger selection of aftermarket coolers for the 6870 from factory.
Hence why i chose the 6870.

[Koshadows]

Hmm I'll concede the first and the second point. However, I don't believe the aftermarket cooler should come into this kind of selection seeing as I personally don't see many people going that far out for a sub $300 card sans some of the crazier 7850s.

Then again, if aftermarket coolers are a factor, at just above the $200 mark the 560 gets a ti version for around $210 before rebates while the 6870's next upgrade would be the $250 7850. I'm still arguing for a tie for the two cards at this stage.

[CWSureshot]

Vulpesveritas, on 31 May 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:

@cipher.
1. Note that i had already stated the gtx 600 series as such, had you read the parentheses. Also given that the gtx 400 line were fermi core, and fermi wiped the floor in gpgpu with everything AMD had until GCN came out.
2. The reason I use "GTX" instead of "Geforce GTX" is A; unlike AMD's branding for the Radeon HD line, wherein Intel also uses the "HD" nominier, sad as it might be for someone to be confused as such, there is no name conflicts as such for the Nvidia cards.
3. If you feel that adding Geforce to all Nvidia naming bits in this post, and improve it's overall quality, then I shall update it tonight.

Also, if you would, should you see any other parts of this post you feel are biased, please le me know.

I agree.. seems like cipher is the fanboy.. im loyal to nvidia, i hav gtx 550 ti and i wasnt offended by what cipher is claiming.. I found this to be a very useful and informative post for people that dont normally work on their pc or just plain dont know but are pulling out the stops for MWO.

Good post Vulpesveritas

[Vulpesveritas]

Koshadows, on 11 June 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

Hmm I'll concede the first and the second point. However, I don't believe the aftermarket cooler should come into this kind of selection seeing as I personally don't see many people going that far out for a sub $300 card sans some of the crazier 7850s.

Then again, if aftermarket coolers are a factor, at just above the $200 mark the 560 gets a ti version for around $210 before rebates while the 6870's next upgrade would be the $250 7850. I'm still arguing for a tie for the two cards at this stage.

the main thing with aftermarket coolers is you get lower temps, higher overclockability, and lower noise.
And the ti is faster at $225 ish, but I went by 50's not by 25's. so a 560ti is a good in-between at $210, though at $240 you start seeing 7850's ; http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814131473

[Koshadows]

Fair enough I suppose. I'm this skeptical mainly cause I'm not a huge overclocker, but at least I got an in-between for that one.

heh for a while there were some $230 7850s from rebates n whatnot. and $300 7870s from HIS with rebates. Those were probably some of the best bang for the buck. Nvidia still can't compete at the sub 400 market atm so amd doesn't drop prices any further. qq.

[Freyar]

Poor build quality for the original X52's? What?

[Thomas Hogarth]

Freyar, on 11 June 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Poor build quality for the original X52's? What?

Based on the one I handled, yeah. The buttons had a ton of slop, the trigger had a generous side to side slop, the pinky trigger just felt awful, and the whole thing just had a cheap feel to it.

Of course, this is based on my own perceptions. I compared what I was feeling to what I remember from the Cyborg 3D, and came to that conclusion.

[edit] Forgot to mention: The X52 Pro pretty much solved all those issues.

Edited by Thomas Hogarth, 11 June 2012 - 05:34 PM.

[Patrio Sioux Daltum]

I'm going to get my 52 Pro sometime soon. Cool!

[Vodkavaiator]

Very nice, I like that you mentioned some of the negative aspects of all of these options.

Especially some of the reliability issues, such as those of the Logitech G940(a major problem when one costs several hundreds of dollars...)

One question though, why did you not include the CH Pro Throttle?

Edited by Vodkavaiator, 11 June 2012 - 05:42 PM.

[Thomas Hogarth]

Vodkavaiator, on 11 June 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Very nice, I like that you mentioned some of the negative aspects of all of these options.

Especially some of the reliability issues, such as those of the Logitech G940(a major problem when one costs several hundreds of dollars...)

One question though, why did you not include the CH Pro Throttle?

I knew I was forgetting something.