1329 replies to this topic

[Pht]

Hogarth, here's a bit more info you might find worthwhile, I have no problem at all if you shamelessly rip it off and put it in your OP...


---
Some of the neato mod-sites for the cougar joysticks:

http://www.cubpilotshangar.net/ <-- hall effect sensors to replace the potentiometers (UBER!)


http://cougar.flyfoxy.com/mods.php <-- Insanlely better stick after putting in the mods here

---
On rudder pedals: Here are a few more that others mentioned.

http://www.dhs-elect...p?id=200&lng=en
Hall sensors, adjustable response curves, toe brakes on those

http://translate.goo...t%2Fgallery.php
Russian built rudders, uses magneto resistors and look to be built like a tank.
---
About the logitech 3d pro stick:

IMO, you shouldn't even be listing it. Logitech KNOWS about the bad potentiometer problems... they've known, and they refuse to address it. I even did the mod where you crack your stick open, clean the pots, and carefully grease them; the stick STILL had the same problem. I have seen many people on the net complaining about the exact same problems with this stick; loses calibration randomly with no warning.

Buying it is like playing russian roulette with 5 rounds loaded into your revolver.

Again, this just one man's opinion... you have been warned about this stick.

---



Here's a few links to an old CH program that has a VERY useful tool for testing joystick accuracy.

http://www.flyfoxy.com/TM/Foxyv4.zip

http://www.101bathro...m/TM/Foxyv4.zip

http://www.checksix-...=detail&ID=1892

After you install it, either open it, give it some gibberish for your name and such, don't bother with the hotas folder, just hit acccept... than, look across the top options and find "apps" and in "apps" click on "joystick analyzer."

For the more savvy types, you can just make a shortcut to the analyzer tool and use it directly. No, you can't save the analyzer.exe and use it without the main program, it won't work.

For some pointers on what to look for you might check this page out, and maybe some of their other reviews use the software too: http://www.simhq.com...ology_174g.html

For testing your "dead spot" in the center, just wiggle the stick as gently as you can without moving the mainspring... in fact, you might pick the stick up by the base and gently rotate it/wiggle it and see if there's any dead-zone movement.

It would be VERY nice if we could all build up a thread with screenshots and reviews of the various sticks out there...

---

Edited by Pht, 19 June 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[Jalen]

Thomas Hogarth, on 11 June 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

Based on the one I handled, yeah. The buttons had a ton of slop, the trigger had a generous side to side slop, the pinky trigger just felt awful, and the whole thing just had a cheap feel to it.

Of course, this is based on my own perceptions. I compared what I was feeling to what I remember from the Cyborg 3D, and came to that conclusion.

[edit] Forgot to mention: The X52 Pro pretty much solved all those issues.

I had an x52, and I can comment on the absolutely horrible build quality:

The two stage trigger was worthless. You could barely tell the difference between stage one and stage two, so I ended up just using it as if it was a single stage trigger.

The MFD was completely useless, except for the fact that you could customize the three buttons on it to do anything you wanted in game.

The weak spring on the base was the worst. It would flop around like a noodle. I had come up with a couple ways to modify it, to give a bit more tension, but it still felt like a wet noodle.

The pinky trigger was the first thing to break.

The flight stick itself broke one day. I took it apart to fix it and found the problem. The pivot point for the joystick is a plastic cage that fits around the metal flight stick base. Metal meeting plastic means eventually the plastic will fail. And fail it did, horribly. I ended up having to repair this piece a dozen times over the last three years of the life of the joystick. By the end, I had basically rebuilt the piece from nothing. I had plastic and metal pieces superglued and epoxied onto it to try and make it a functional piece.

During one of the repairs, one soldered connection within the flight stick pulled off of its connection point. I ended up pulling off two more connections just trying to get to the connection point. This resulted with me eventually just rewiring the entire flight stick and resoldering every single connection. To keep costs down, they used the cheapest wiring and solder and just barely enough wire to reach each connection.

[Edit: I also forgot to mention that the silk screen printing on the stick and throttle wore off almost immediately. You could simply wipe it away with your finger. Not that big of a deal, but I just remembered that.]

After owning that flight stick for about four years, I finally just threw it away. I'm hoping that I didn't throw away the throttle, but I'm pretty sure I did. For MWO, I think I'd like to use the keyboard, mouse and just a throttle stick... we'll see when I go back home next month if I threw it out or not!

I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who didn't see it as a disposable investment. If you don't mind using it for a little while and tossing it out like a Bic lighter later on, by all means.

Edited by Jalen, 19 June 2012 - 05:02 PM.

[Psyctooth]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 17 June 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

Most of my office, what do I win?

at&t = Comstar... without guns... yet.

[Vulpesveritas]

Psyctooth, on 19 June 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

at&t = Comstar... without guns... yet.

No, Verizon = comstar without guns yet
AT&T is their more evil twin.

[Psyctooth]

Vulpesveritas, on 19 June 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

No, Verizon = comstar without guns yet
AT&T is their more evil twin.

Ah, so they are Word of Blake?

[silentD11]

Vulpesveritas, on 13 June 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

As much as I like AMD... when it comes to processors, the i7 is faster in both single and multithreaded situations... though in the latter not by much, it still is.
Though while the $100 difference may be sufficient for someone to consider an AM3+ platform for HPC work in a low budget environment, most running such applications will be using server based boards.
So... not really unless A: You're a complete AMD fanboy, B: You're doing gaming as well and can put that extra $100 towards a better GPU, C: You're working on a budget and that $100 makes all the difference, or D: You refuse to buy Intel for one reason or another, other than for reason A.

I've got an AMD Phenom X4 rig and an intel sandybridge rig. Outside of the CPU they are both similar (same sound card, same amount of RAM, GPU's roughly the same) and I can tell no difference between them in game. In synthetic benchmarks, in game benchmarks, and some work there is a difference and its' noticable, but when it comes to actually playing games, it's not there. Keep in mind that any game you play cranked up is going to be GPU bound anyways.

You also have to look at the entire platform you're using. In the case of modern chipsets, high end intel boards cost a lot more than high end AMD boards, so factor that in as well. And for a while intel didn't have native SATA 3.0 and that was added on through crappy third party controlers. The situation can get blurry.

Obviously if you have the cash you should get the i7 and a good intel board, but if someone is looking to save some cash AMD isn't a bad option.

[cipher]

silentD11, on 20 June 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

And for a while intel didn't have native SATA 3.0 and that was added on through crappy third party controlers.

1.) The third party controllers were not "crappy".
2.) This is almost a moot point now since the latest chipset (Z77) has built-in USB 3.0, and future chipsets will have it as well.

Worse, when USB 3.0 was pretty new last year, VRZone was "utterly disappointed with the performance of AMD's integrated USB 3.0 host controller": http://vr-zone.com/a...p/13358-11.html

Edited by cipher, 20 June 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[Vulpesveritas]

cipher, on 20 June 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

1.) The third party controllers were not "crappy".
2.) This is almost a moot point now since the latest chipset (Z77) has built-in USB 3.0, and future chipsets will have it as well.

Worse, when USB 3.0 was pretty new last year, VRZone was "utterly disappointed with the performance of AMD's integrated USB 3.0 host controller": http://vr-zone.com/a...p/13358-11.html

Well, in fairness, USB 3.0 was only integrated on AMD's low end Llano line last year, and was only using 3rd party controllers on the high end. I am hoping the 10xx AM3+ chipset USB 3.0 controller is better.

But also in fairness, that still doesn't change that Intel didn't jump on the SATA 3.0 boat sooner, and AMD still beat Intel to the punch on integrated USB 3.0 too I believe.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 20 June 2012 - 08:14 AM.

[cipher]

Vulpesveritas, on 20 June 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

Well, in fairness, USB 3.0 was only integrated on AMD's low end Llano line last year, and was only using 3rd party controllers on the high end. I am hoping the 10xx AM3+ chipset USB 3.0 controller is better.

But also in fairness, that still doesn't change that Intel didn't jump on the SATA 3.0 boat sooner, and AMD still beat Intel to the punch on integrated USB 3.0 too I believe.

Yes, I'm much more annoyed with the limited number of SATA III (6Gb/s) ports on a lot of chipsets. As an avid storage enthusiasts with multiple RAID arrays, and who usually fills up his built-in ports, I've been POed at Intel chipsets for this cruddy 4 ports SATA III and the rest SATA II. It's the number one reason I am skipping X79 and waiting for the next Intel enthusiast chipset to include all SATA III ports.

I've had my fair share of disappointments with 3rd party PCI-Express RAID controllers, in that to get anything decent you need to shell out $500+ because that market is aimed at businesses, so they jack up the pricing. The cheaper RAID cards either don't have a dedicated RAID processor or they're just generally subpar. At least with sticking to RAID 0, 1, and 10 the built-in, software-driven controllers are fine. It's just RAID 5 where I wouldn't use built-in RAID.

[silentD11]

Intel also had the massive SATA issues on the first revision p67 sandybridge chipsets and had to recall them, it was not a good time to be intel.

My main point is that you need to look at the entire platform your getting, CPU is just one part of the picture. The only reason I haven't gone X79 yet is the fubar'd and didn't ship it with SAS and I'm waiting on the ivy bridge update.

[Vulpesveritas]

updated up to $300.

[Chiyeko Kuramochi]

I would disagree with the Obsidian Corsair 800D as silence, it is quite loud due the open grill top it sure makes quite some noise

[Vulpesveritas]

Chiyeko Kuramochi, on 20 June 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

I would disagree with the Obsidian Corsair 800D as silence, it is quite loud due the open grill top it sure makes quite some noise

think I should swap the raven and 800d? As the 800d was the only case in the price category I could really think to pit-head-to-head with the Raven.

[Negoksa]

This is a great guide, thank you! I've been searching for a new joystick for a while now. I have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro that has served me well over the years, but I'd like something like a HOTAS for MWO for a better feel.

The 3D Pro also has a very sensitive "throttle" which constantly causes issues with forward and reverse in MW4. So thanks again for helping me decide on a stick!

[Anav]

good read, thanks for posting it!

[Butcherd]

Ok, im stuck between buying the Thrustmaster T-16000M and Saitek PS38 Cyborg F.L.Y5. I like the throttle and looks of the FLY 5 and not the T-16000. But it sounds like the quality is better with the T-16000.

Has anybody used these 2, and can recommend one over the other?

Buying from Amazon the prices are almost the same. So price isnt an issue.

[jrock]

https://docs.google....A2enFxcGc#gid=0

I took all the info off Wikipedia - this might be a decent template - I KNOW that the CPU list needs to be heavily weeded.

[mrcarlton]

The processor is going to be pennys to your graphics card. The gpu will likely make the biggest difference for you, especially if you have the default on-mobo gpu (they are usually ****).

If you're going to spend money to upgrade your comp, change that first.

[shadowsong]

Word of Blake, but with worse customer service.

Apologies if you DO work in customer service, SJ. Been there, done that, know how bad it can get... 8)

And I'll settle for my 40" Sony TV serving as my computer monitor. Just as much screen real estate as most smaller multi-monitor setups, 120 hz processing for smooth motion, and I don't have to worry about the frames of the multiple monitors getting in my way.

[Lakevren]

Vulpesveritas, on 18 June 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

In any case, games are becoming more and more GPU bound vs CPU bound. Especially with DX11 implementations. But yes, I vote we petition TPU to start doing CPU charts. lol

There is one:

http://www.techpower..._Scaling/1.html