143 replies to this topic

[Budor]

GalaxyBluestar, on 14 December 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

there's only one difference, cata's could be killed reasonably with anything. commando's need to be killed before they go too fast and engauge their lag shield. why do you think many people talk about raven's and commando's and not dragons or cataphracts?

I disagree. Streakcats did way more dmg while having way more armor and running 84km/h. You can counter ecm with ecm and you can get funny 1-2shot kills on commandos even with the ****** hitreg/netcode now.

Why PGI decided to give ECM to variants that have the most missile bays remains a mystery...

Edited by Budor, 14 December 2012 - 09:14 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Budor, on 14 December 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

I disagree. Streakcats did way more dmg while having way more armor and running 84km/h. You can counter ecm with ecm and you can get funny 1-2shot kills on commandos even with the ****** hitreg/netcode now.

you haven't played pugs then and good weapon balance is poor if ecm can only be beaten by itself. that's why many 8v8 participants are in pain now.

and i have alphaed 4 erlrg laser twice into the ct of said commando and he merely turned yellow. yep even with the hitreg/netcode since this patch.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

GalaxyBluestar, on 14 December 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

you haven't played pugs then and good weapon balance is poor if ecm can only be beaten by itself. that's why many 8v8 participants are in pain now.

which is why both everyone uses it and noone wants it removed or fixed. Noone likes it when the op stuff gets fixed.
plus the constant thing where the devs think op stuff that gets used by everyone in the game makes the game more diverse, not less.

[Budor]

GalaxyBluestar, on 14 December 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

you haven't played pugs then and good weapon balance is poor if ecm can only be beaten by itself. that's why many 8v8 participants are in pain now.

and i have alphaed 4 erlrg laser twice into the ct of said commando and he merely turned yellow. yep even with the hitreg/netcode since this patch.

Thats why i said you can get funny 1shot kills and stated that the ****** netcode is the problem.


I cannot comment on the situation in 8vs8 but in pugs its not as bad as it this thread makes it out to be. Maybe people are unlucky with the drops, It may even be a problem due to timezones as i noticed WAY more cheesebuilds/4mans in pugdrops @ us prime times (i often play into the morning from europe).

[GalaxyBluestar]

Budor, on 14 December 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

Thats why i said you can get funny 1shot kills and stated that the ****** netcode is the problem.


I cannot comment on the situation in 8vs8 but in pugs its not as bad as it this thread makes it out to be. Maybe people are unlucky with the drops, It may even be a problem due to timezones as i noticed WAY more cheesebuilds/4mans in pugdrops @ us prime times (i often play into the morning from europe).

sorry my bad... please excuse me us aussies are a bit down under over these things

[shabowie]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 14 December 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

which is why both everyone uses it and noone wants it removed or fixed.

I can't tell where you are serious or sarcastic. Everyone is using it by necessity and everyone I've talked to wants it tweaked down considerably in effectiveness.

[GatorG]

Going back a few pages with this, sorry don't feel like hunting it to quote, some said that the ECM chassis were inexpensive. The pest being refereed to was concerning Ravens. The base 3L is not an extremely inexpensive chassis, and once you up grade the engine in it it is a 10-12 million chassis (depending on if you keep the xl that came in it or sell it to offset the 295xl). I will leave the speed cap and that 6 mil out, since obviously if you have the 15k GXP you have been playing a while and know how to make C-Bill, have a bunch, have a bunch of stuff you can sell, or have the MC for the chassis.
And another post in the same area was talking about PPC buffs, I should be able to get a PPC in my 3L, so if I hit you with that you won't be able to see me clearly for your direct fire weapons either?

[Lishta]

Welcome to Light MechWarrior Online

[GalaxyBluestar]

GatorG, on 14 December 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

Going back a few pages with this, sorry don't feel like hunting it to quote, some said that the ECM chassis were inexpensive. The pest being refereed to was concerning Ravens. The base 3L is not an extremely inexpensive chassis, and once you up grade the engine in it it is a 10-12 million chassis (depending on if you keep the xl that came in it or sell it to offset the 295xl). I will leave the speed cap and that 6 mil out, since obviously if you have the 15k GXP you have been playing a while and know how to make C-Bill, have a bunch, have a bunch of stuff you can sell, or have the MC for the chassis.
And another post in the same area was talking about PPC buffs, I should be able to get a PPC in my 3L, so if I hit you with that you won't be able to see me clearly for your direct fire weapons either?

another good future predicition, will all the ecm carriers have their ppcs to wipe other ecm's out? time will tell...

[SpiralRazor]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 14 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

according to the devs, ppl all using the same thing makes the game more diverse anyways

requoted for truth.

[SpiralRazor]

The only ones who DONT want ECM fixed are the powergamers....yeah, thats right..i said it. And ill stand by that.

Man, i like to PG as much as the next guy, but theres a limit where you just have to say "is this good for the game"


And again ""If you ever look at a choice and say, "Obviously everyone should take this," or "I would never take this," there's probably something wrong with how they've been balanced. "

-Obsidian Entertainment's Josh Sawyer and Feargus Urquhart.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Budor, on 14 December 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

Why PGI decided to give ECM to variants that have the most missile bays remains a mystery...

This. Its not ecm thats bugging me right now its the combo of ECM plus streaks. ECM is actually OK for me functionality wise, its just too good for its weight/crit size. Streaks are still just plain wrong and with the same mechs that get ECM also being good streak platforms... well it just isn't good design in my opinion

[Red squirrel]

Orzorn, on 14 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

ECM shouldn't be able to stop streaks. Its as simple as that. It leads to exclusivity. Either you have ECM (and can thus use streaks), or you don't have ECM and can't use them because you're almost always under ECM's effect anyways.

It doesn't help that Total Warfare does not say anywhere that SSRMs are affected by Guardian ECM. In fact, it explicitly states what is affected (and once again, SSRMs are not mentioned). Only Angel ECM, which comes out in 3052, can stop SSRMs.

In my opinion a single ECM should be able to counter all ECMs within its range. So you would counter them only partially (within 180m). Right now it is strange....so I can counter the ECM of that mech 180m away from me and now my ECM also effects that mech 360m away.

And yes I have seen those teams. In a normal PUG ECM works fine although it is annoying they invent new effects not in canon (Angle ECM).
But these premade kiddies are just frustrating and the reason I want my PUG only button.
Since I encounter more destructive premades than constructive team players (which I rally like in my or the enemy team)

[TB Freelancer]

Lefty Lucy, on 14 December 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Yeah, PUGstomping in ECM scouts is totally "pro mode."

Tell me about it.

iller, on 14 December 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Easy fix ---> Stop PAIRING them again Pubbers in the first place

What I would have liked to have seen was 4 mans mixed with pugs eliminated until they came up with and were able to implement something better. As it is, the matchmaker is far too easy to abuse, and there is a highly active and persistent minority making the problem seem worse than it actually is. They make things seem so bad by abusing things as far as they possibly can to gain the most advantage possible.

I'm not really against premades being mixed with pugs other than that they are completely anonymous, I'd really like to see some color coding on the names of groups being mixed with pugs. I'm more against the lack of balance that can often happen. But as the matchmaker gets improved I expect many current issues will take care of themselves.

PGI is working on it, its a complex piece of work, and I'm pretty sure they're very well aware of our issues with it, its on the official road map. Its just a matter of time...though it is an exercise of dealing with frustration in the meantime.

[Codejack]

Pygar, on 14 December 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

50% chance to ask them why they bother with PUGs.

Then I'll 50% answer you:

Because my friends only play _______ games!

Fill in the blank with your choice of adjective to describe the shortcomings of this game.

[Sifright]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 14 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

know whats worse? premades of all ecm scouts with the base cap speed module.


YEAH

Good thing there isn't a TDM mode.

Because TDM is just stupid!1one

[Joseph Mallan]

Orzorn, on 14 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

ECM shouldn't be able to stop streaks. Its as simple as that. It leads to exclusivity. Either you have ECM (and can thus use streaks), or you don't have ECM and can't use them because you're almost always under ECM's effect anyways.

It doesn't help that Total Warfare does not say anywhere that SSRMs are affected by Guardian ECM. In fact, it explicitly states what is affected (and once again, SSRMs are not mentioned). Only Angel ECM, which comes out in 3052, can stop SSRMs.

To correct this... GUARDIAN ECM should not block Streaks. however ANGEL ECM in fact does block Streak Missiles. But we don't have Angel ECM yet. Or did the DEVs make Guardian the Only ECM and gave it Angel ECM abilities?

[KuruptU4Fun]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 December 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

To correct this... GUARDIAN ECM should not block Streaks. however ANGEL ECM in fact does block Streak Missiles. But we don't have Angel ECM yet. Or did the DEVs make Guardian the Only ECM and gave it Angel ECM abilities?

In order to not make one component obsolete when the next comes out that is certainly a possibility.

[snapstyle]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 14 December 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

I said that -.-



that was the point of this part

Yes, I was referring to the fact that the devs have absolutely no leg to stand on because we were never even able to test it.

[Joseph Mallan]

One Medic Army, on 14 December 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

How about if streaks weren't so much better than other weapons that one side having exclusive access to them didn't decide battles?

here's the rub to me. Angel ECM only inhibited the 100% hit of Streaks. under Angel ECM you could still dumb fire SSRMs!