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Wtf? Pre-Mades Of All Ecm Scouts!


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#61 Franchi

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:50 PM

View PostPygar, on 14 December 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:


But the problems there are A) Streaks have their own problems, SSRM2's were never that good in CBT, they could in fact "miss" and then if they hit it you would roll for location...neither is true now. B) Yeah, and I've seen the streak commandos die like everything else when people play together and make the right moves to kill them too.
Here is the problem i just got out of a game where I stood on cap against a raven a catphract and an SRM catapult.

for 30 seconds I defended the cap alone as a commando.

I finally died when i got hung up on part of the coffee maker.

The problem is not streaks, streaks WERE NEVER A PROBLEM for anyone who wasn't running around in a light trying to play it like a heavy or assault. The problem is netcode+ECM makes lights tougher than atlases.

Edited by Franchi, 14 December 2012 - 06:52 PM.


#62 Pygar

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:52 PM

View PostCodejack, on 14 December 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:


So what do you do when the ECM-streak-Commandos work as a team?



Better question: Where is your team at? What are they doing to help?

#63 Codejack

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:53 PM

View PostPygar, on 14 December 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:


Better question: Where is your team at? What are they doing to help?


HAHAHAHAHA- OH MY GOD YOU WERE SERIOUS?!

#64 Khobai

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:53 PM

streaks were a problem. hitting light mechs should not be automatic. whether the netcode is buggy or not is irrelevant, there should not be a weapon that automatically hits lights.

hard counters in games are always bad for gameplay.

1) streaks should not autohit light mechs. period.
2) ecm should not prevent streaks from locking on. period.

all hard counters should be removed from the game and replaced with soft counters. Because soft counters allow players to overcome adversity with skill.

Edited by Khobai, 14 December 2012 - 07:02 PM.


#65 Codejack

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:56 PM

View PostKhobai, on 14 December 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

streaks were a problem. hitting light mechs should not be automatic. whether the netcode is buggy or not is irrelevant, there should not be a weapon that automatically hits lights.


After holding the reticule on them for ~2.5 seconds and giving up long-range weaponry, yea, they hit automatically, and might actually kill you if you keep circling and nibbling them to death the same way you do EVERY OTHER HEAVY AND ASSAULT MECH IN THE GAME!

Shouldn't there be something that kills lights other than more lights?

#66 Khobai

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:01 PM

Quote

Shouldn't there be something that kills lights other than more lights?


Yes you should be able to kill lights with other weapons, and hitting them should not be easy, but it should also not be impossible either which it currently is due to the netcode issues.

So basically... netcode needs to be fixed. hard counters need to be removed and replaced with soft counters. And Franchi needs to stop piloting nothing but a Streakcat all the time.

#67 Pygar

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:04 PM

View PostCodejack, on 14 December 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:


HAHAHAHAHA- OH MY GOD YOU WERE SERIOUS?!


Yeah, I was. And if the answer was "cuz I play PUGs" , then 50% chance I would just ignore it, 50% chance to ask them why they bother with PUGs. (Either response due to the fact that talking about organized teams and talking about PUGs is two really different things. Unfortunately, in team play a lot of the match is riding on the scouts right now too, but the fixes to the issue need to be in the right areas.)

#68 Franchi

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:06 PM

View PostKhobai, on 14 December 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

streaks were a problem. hitting light mechs should not be automatic. whether the netcode is buggy or not is irrelevant, there should not be a weapon that automatically hits lights.

hard counters in games are always bad for gameplay.

1) streaks should not autohit light mechs. period.
2) ecm should not prevent streaks from locking on. period.

all hard counters should be removed from the game and replaced with soft counters. Because soft counters allow players to overcome adversity with skill.

Streak cats were never a hard counter to lights, they were a method to deny lights access to an area they were most usefull for protecting LRM boats and assualt mechs.

They became a hard counter because light pilots couldn't deal with the fact that there was a mech that could kill them EVERY time they tried to kill it, they couldn't use their 60KPH speed advantage to avoid them because running away in a light is just unthinkable. Instead they QQed on the forums until ECM was introduced.

Now that we have ECM they switched over to the COM-2D and RVN-3L and are boating streaks and claiming that they are now fine.


The problem was never the weapon.

#69 OVBlueGhost

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:07 PM

View PostKhobai, on 14 December 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

streaks were a problem. hitting light mechs should not be automatic. whether the netcode is buggy or not is irrelevant, there should not be a weapon that automatically hits lights.

hard counters in games are always bad for gameplay.

1) streaks should not autohit light mechs. period.
2) ecm should not prevent streaks from locking on. period.

all hard counters should be removed from the game and replaced with soft counters. Because soft counters allow players to overcome adversity with skill.



Are you serious? Streaks are a soft counter to lights, even streaks + LRMS are a soft counter to non-ecm lights because a light mech pilot has enough manouverability to stay outside 270 range or behind cover. You should not expect lights to be able to waltz through a formation of heavies un-molested, people just have broken assumptions because they've been used to no-knockdown lag shields for so long.

If a heavier mech is specifically designed to counter you, it should kill you easily if you're stupid enough to get in range of it.

If an atlas lets my SRM6 splat-a-pault get up behind it, that is one dead atlas.

#70 Franchi

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:08 PM

View PostKhobai, on 14 December 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:


Yes you should be able to kill lights with other weapons, and hitting them should not be easy, but it should also not be impossible either which it currently is due to the netcode issues.

So basically... netcode needs to be fixed. hard counters need to be removed and replaced with soft counters. And Franchi needs to stop piloting nothing but a Streakcat all the time.
Hmm, haven't piloted a streak cat for more than 5 games in the period since about 2 weeks before ECM was introduced until now.

Ive been using my butterbee more than anything lately, you should know, Ive killed you a few times in it and in the 6pack.

Edited by Franchi, 14 December 2012 - 07:19 PM.


#71 Kell Draygo

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:09 PM

The arrogance of premades like Pygar just makes me shake my head. It's almost as if they don't care that this game is suffering and future getting more bleak with the course we are on. Sometimes, there are more important things than your 'uber MLG stats'.

#72 Ryvucz

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:09 PM

I want my 100% hit rate Gauss Rifle.

No lock required, just hits the nearest target.

Friendly? No problem, kill it.

Enemy? No problem, kill it.

Myself? No problem, I've always wanted to shoot my own eye out.

#73 Corvus Antaka

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:37 PM

View PostLocan Ravok, on 14 December 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

Get used to it because ECM is fine as it is ... or so the Devs say B)


yeah you guys dont understand, ECM is perfectly fine. TAG and NARC being direct fire weapons only enhances LRMS, and while the maps are heavily littered with a lot of cover, thats the point, we want CoD type warfare, pop in and out from cover, snipe, rush the enemy and crush them.

Even better, Light mechs are much better with ECM as the A1 was very OP due to how it's 6 ssrm2's tore up light mechs.

The best light killers are now SRMS and the LBX 10. In fact, I highly recommend this as the light killing gun of choice, since all your weapons spread all over lights anyhow, at least your taking the ones with the most punch, and amazingly these guns shred lights up close very easily.

Please simply abandon your ssrms and lrms, as quite honestly these weapons will, at 1 point or another become completely useless vs ECM, and you are a much bigger asset to your team taking direct fire weapons of any kind, because ECM does not affect these weapons at all so you will never find yourself in a situation where you are suddenly completely useless to your team.

In fact, once your squads become good with everything but locking missiles, you will come to realize that ECM is actually pretty worthless except for the 1-2 ECM mechs you need to shield your own team from missiles inf in fact the enemy brought any.

If you do want to use LRMS, you must realize that unless you also take a direct fire item like TAG or NARC, or have a scout spotting for you, you are best off not using this indirect fire weapon at all.

That is, unless you can mount an ECM yourself, because then you can counter your enemies ECM. But only inside 180m, where of course your LRMS are useless anyhow. Oh, and their useless outside 180 meters too because otherwise, if you could actually lock onto an ECM mech, he might have to use cover to avoid LRMS raining down on his head as he rushes headlong across an open field to engage you.

You do know that tagging a commando at 130KPH is really easy as he bobs and weaves left to right while you LRM him? dont lose that tag for a second though or your LRMS will be worthless again.

Then again, if you just stick to direct fire weapons you dont have to sacrifice slots for useless stuff that does no damage like TAG & NARC, and can focus on brawling & direct fire exculsively.

Or, you can run 8 ECM commandos and laugh as the whole enemy brought direct fire weapons, while you SSRM them all to death with your no skill lockon, lagshielded 25 ton mechs of freakishness.

Everything is fine. Learn2play you newbs. Seriously. You know nothing of balancing or implementing systems. Just because the TS servers populations are plummeting and 1 70 ton mech costs 25 bucks isnt a bad sign. The revolving door of legendary founders who love mechwarrior and gave PGI 120 bucks but threaten to leave every other week because this game sucks, are all crazy idiots who really hate mechwarrior and know nothing about it, or how to make a good mechwarrior game. Especially those MWLL guys, or those guys from Mektek.

Most importantly, all the legendary founder mechheads who give feedback like "wait a minute, why does ECM cover 3 TT systems and is nothing like TT" are idiots., PGI has solutions to all these problems and more, if only they could figure out how to implement CW....oh wait, it's coming...when? After I drop 99 bucks for xmas? Or maybe another 300 for the spring?

Don't forget kids. PGI is a legendary developer that knows exactly what they are doing. They are in charge, you are all just foolish peons who think stuff like "sticking to TT" or "nothing for MC only" was actually meant to be true.

In fact, I'm going to buy every PGI game ever made that got a score over 7.0 on the review sites right now. Because PGI rules. That much.

Now ****, and go play mechwarrior. And if you dont like the way PGI is making the game, just leave. MWO is so popular and amazing right now that with it's massive and ever growing playerbase I'm sure PGI has no worries over much of anything, everything is WAI or very close to it.

I mean cmon, open beta was timed perfectly, and I'm sure release will be too. I bet there's tons of goodies of awesomesauce in the pipes, and that the PGI team is cracking 80 hour weeks because this game will get a 9.5 review when it hits.

Seriously, what a bunch of newbs you all are for griping so much over such silly stuff when the game is so close to TT and so much better than every other mech game ever made.

In fact, I think maybe I'll donate 500 bucks to PGI because this game makes Planetside, Tribes Ascend and Star wars the old republic look so 1980's.

Maybe then I'll finally be able to afford all those paintjobs my mechs will need over the next year. And get the xmas lights that cost 3 times more than what they do in the real world.

#74 GalaxyBluestar

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:43 PM

View PostRoyal Flush, on 14 December 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

Ok, things are starting to really get ridiculous.

Game after game I am seeing (and losing) to 4 or more ECM scout mechs on the opposing team!

These guys come decked out with streak missles and with the Anti-missle nerf not shooting down streaks there's no way to stop em.

Am I the only one seeing these pre-mades dominating the PUGs this way?

So instead of everyone dropping in streak-catapults they are dropping in streak ECM scouts with the lag shield they are tearing everything up.


here's a cut and paste from another person with an same thread in the patch feedbacks

OP - many of us whiners, lock on easy moders {i just used an lrm boat till fill out a mech tree but since i sided with fire support i've been labbled a streak cat pilot by the ignorant} lrn2aim, lrn2ply NooB non adapters have been saying the game would turn into ecm mando ravan atlas stomp parties even before ecm patch came through. why are people surprised about the turn of events? it was as obvious as bush leading america down sink with the buy more houses ruin the banks fuel our war on terror blunders.

[color="#b27204"]Thinking Of Long Range Weapons? - MechWarrior Online[/color]

that was dec 4 and highlighted exactly what's happening now and many people on the forum already were calling the same thing and many people were pretty much calling it daft. i'll just let people make up their own minds.

View PostKell Draygo, on 14 December 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

The arrogance of premades like Pygar just makes me shake my head. It's almost as if they don't care that this game is suffering and future getting more bleak with the course we are on. Sometimes, there are more important things than your 'uber MLG stats'.


yes that guy called me a cata crier and i've only owned awesomes! XD i think he wants pug mode dead and buried not realising the game would crash with it. where would his precious premade be then?

called him out on it with my many posts as evidence... no reply.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 14 December 2012 - 08:45 PM.


#75 StalaggtIKE

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:51 PM

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#76 Budor

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:52 PM

ECM is ok, it adds depth to the game. Netcode and removed knockdowns are the problem with lights atm. Game is more enjoyable with ECM commandos than it was with streakcats.

Edited by Budor, 14 December 2012 - 08:52 PM.


#77 GalaxyBluestar

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:58 PM

View PostBudor, on 14 December 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

ECM is ok, it adds depth to the game. Netcode and removed knockdowns are the problem with lights atm. Game is more enjoyable with ECM commandos than it was with streakcats.


there's only one difference, cata's could be killed reasonably with anything. commando's need to be killed before they go too fast and engauge their lag shield. why do you think many people talk about raven's and commando's and not dragons or cataphracts?

#78 shabowie

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:59 PM

View PostCodejack, on 14 December 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:


After holding the reticule on them for ~2.5 seconds and giving up long-range weaponry...


Yeah because holding a reticle roughly in the area of an enemy mech for a brief period is so hard.

Streaks should probably have their cool down doubled. Considering they never miss and require zero skill to use I think that sounds about right. Either that or make the user have to regain lock in exactly the same way for every volley fired.

#79 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:06 PM

View PostCodejack, on 14 December 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:


HAHAHAHAHA- OH MY GOD YOU WERE SERIOUS?!


yes he is. He thinks that Lone Wolf play is exploiting. IE not intended by the game design.

View PostKhobai, on 14 December 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

1) streaks should not autohit light mechs. period.


so by your logic streak missiles shouldnt exist

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 14 December 2012 - 09:05 PM.


#80 GalaxyBluestar

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:11 PM

View Postshabowie, on 14 December 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Yeah because holding a reticle roughly in the area of an enemy mech for a brief period is so hard.

Streaks should probably have their cool down doubled. Considering they never miss and require zero skill to use I think that sounds about right. Either that or make the user have to regain lock in exactly the same way for every volley fired.


lrm's when used as long ranged missles instead of dumb dumb which the dumbs recommend take forever to reach a target and most likely will crash into anything other than the target that's found cover, removing the lock and the homing capability. ecm didn't need to screw them over, but i agree with you about the streaks considering their travel time is next to zero at close range.





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