90 replies to this topic

[Volume]

Quote

Next week’s patch will also address my biggest MWO annoyance: the quiet scourge of AFK players. Inouye says that “AFK players will now be earning little to no C-Bills/XP per game. The large rewards for winning or losing have been removed and only a fraction of what was there before will be rewarded at match end.” Take that, you lazy goons.

Honestly, I see a lot of problems with this. If everything is performance-based (since it won't be just for showing up) this punishes people who enter the match and end up having to deal with a hud bug. Obviously it adversely affects player performance, and therefore will affect their pay. I do like performance based rewards, and it is a good way to stop rewarding AFK players, but when the game is so unstable that players cannot perform to the best of their ability, either due to FPS issues, or more glaring flaws like not even being able to see their heat meter or armor and such, they shouldn't lose money. Sure they aren't able to help their team as much, but it's not their fault they crashed to desktop or whatever. Spotting, assists, kills, damage done, etc, should all be much higher, but how can you differentiate between the total damage done of an afk player, a player who has a bad game (gets cored without doing much damage), or a player who is the victim of sync-drop eight-mans (sometimes get focused down before getting barely any damage off)?

Especially for new players, I think this might make things difficult for them. I know they're getting a 25-match C-Bill bonus, but if it's a bonus of a lower total, how does that help them? I'm concerned because obviously the damage potential of a trial 'Mech does not match up with 'real' 'Mechs...How can a new player be competitive in damage done compared to 36SRM cats? I know I just got 420 damage done in a game with my Commando that has nothing on it except a large laser and ECM, so technically I know the damage *potential* for any 'Mech can be decent, but it was mostly because people just ignored me and I got to blast their backs. Most players won't have that experience, let alone new players, and if they need to perform really well to get anywhere because the "played match" bonus is mostly gone, then they aren't going to be sticking around.

Not trolling, not complaining, just a real concern.

[Teralitha]

Sometimes you have to just choose the lesser of 2 evils.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

If they increased actual combat rewards and damage dealt rewards while removing the welfare rewards, then active players wouldn't be hurt; just the dead weight AFKs. I kept telling them to do these things, looks like they're finally coming around. You shouldn't get paid 75k just to show up then walk TV instead of fight.

[Bagheera]

Phase 3 matchmaker should alleviate the "overwhelmed newbie" problem somewhat. IIRC there is some sort of ranking going on with it. Performance based rewards make the most sense, and will prevent afk farming. I'm willing to chance making that change before Phase 3MM - it's far more frustrating to play a match where you lose because 3 people are idle than it is to get beaten by a force with superior skill or load-out. To put it another way, I'm betting that new players would rather fight 8v8 against superior opponents than 5v8 and just be outnumbered because they got stuck with farmers.

[DogmeatX]

Is there some technical reason why they can't differentiate between someone who has disconnected and someone who is actually afk? If they can differentiate why not put some heuristics in so afk or botlike behaviour can be detected and dealt with appropriately.

My concerns: what happens in these scenarios for example?

Scout - doesn't do much damage, lights up some targets but nobody shoots at them so doesn't get too many spotting bonuses

Any assault - slow to the battle, tanks a lot of damage but maybe doesn't get too many shots in/loses weapons etc. so ends up not dealing much damage but still enough of a difference in other ways

You run back to your base away from the front lines to chase off some scouts or people trying to sneak caps (low damage but could have made the difference between win/loss) or even just delay enemy team from capping so your side can do it faster...

Other guys who for whatever reason don't get large amounts of damage in (maybe too slow to get there or their loadout etc..)


What I'm trying to say is there are several valid scenarios where a player doesn't necessarily dish out large amounts of damage but still played a crucial role, what happens to these?

Just guesswork here, it would be nice if they would detail what they plan to replace the match win/loss reward with instead...?

Edited by DogmeatX, 16 December 2012 - 05:03 AM.

[Elizander]

Well now I'll just have to quit a match when I get black screen or 4 FPS instead of powering down and waiting it out.

[Lyrik]

DogmeatX, on 16 December 2012 - 05:00 AM, said:

What I'm trying to say is there are several valid scenarios where a player doesn't necessarily dish out large amounts of damage but still played a crucial role, what happens to these?

Yep, that is a serioux concern. I hope they get it right :-)

[Raso]

I usually don't get kill shots and the mechs that I pilot and tactics that I employ frequently do not have me on top of an enemy cap. I sincerely hope that what ever system they come up with doesn't lead to a game where that one guy with 500 more damage than the rest of his team now becomes the only person making reliable money.

On the other hand if it rewards the higher damage dealing and more expensive weapons systems with a higher paycheck than the more economic ones I could be happy. My Artemis SRM6s and LBX10s cost a pretty penny to fix but they also rock the enemy's world. If I was rewarded more for inflicting damage with those weapon systems than some guy with a few medium lasers on a Jenner and the repair and rearm costs were scaled appropriately I could deal. Heck that might even make me switch to my Hunchback 4P as my mainstay...

[Chemie]

link to the comments? I have heard lots of rumors on economics and would like to know more.

No repair/rearm. No win/loss payout. (BTW, whats the point of winning if the payout is for in game "performance?)

[Thorn Hallis]

Really depends on what exactly will be rewarded and how much.

And maybe, just maybe, the HUD bugs will be fixed with the next patch (yeah yeah, I know, I'm a dreamer).

[Taizan]

AFK = not contributing to a match. If you contribute (do damage, blow off components, help capping, kill enemies, spot etc.) you should still receive a nice income.

[Volume]

Chemie, on 16 December 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

link to the comments?

http://www.pcgamer.c...t-mode-release/

Second to last paragraph.

And obviously I don't want people to get more money afking/botting than playing hard. I'm just saying sometimes you play hard and don't deal much damage and get rolled by premades or you want to play hard and then have no HUD or chat box or minimap or yellow screen or whatever it is, and therefore can't even communicate with the team, or target, or change weapon groups (if they were changing their loadout), or see their armor, ammo, heat, capture meters, etc.

Again, it shouldn't affect legitimate players as much as it affects AFK players, but it will still affect real players trying their best.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Chemie, on 16 December 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

(BTW, whats the point of winning if the payout is for in game "performance?)

Because performing well increases your chance of winning.

[Chemie]

Oh, that link. I thought maybe Paul made a post.

Well, no AFK
No suicide rush

not bad.

But I guess if there is a cap bonus then ECM raven fast cap is the new CB farm approach. if they nerf cap bonus, then things get interesting. However, how they dole out CB will matter (like all kills? damage? rated XP ladder?)

BTW, am I the only one feeling like they will be paying out NET LESS after the new ecomony? (i.e remove R&R, remove win/loss. The capture mode says 18,000 CB payout....if that is it, dont even come to the forums after that)

Edited by Chemie, 16 December 2012 - 05:36 AM.

[Volume]

Chemie, on 16 December 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

Oh, that link. I thought maybe Paul made a post.

Well, no AFK
No suicide rush

not bad.

But I guess if there is a cap bonus then ECM raven fast cap is the new CB farm approach. if they nerf cap bonus, then things get interesting. However, how they dole out CB will matter (like all kills? damage? rated XP ladder?)

BTW, am I the only one feeling like they will be paying out NET LESS after the new ecomony? (i.e remove R&R, remove win/loss. The capture mode says 18,000 CB payout....if that is it, dont even come to the forums after that)

I'm hoping/assuming that this is the "bonus" for the objective thing, on top of everything else. Even then, it doesn't seem like much...

[ollo]

Taizan, on 16 December 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

AFK = not contributing to a match. If you contribute (do damage, blow off components, help capping, kill enemies, spot etc.) you should still receive a nice income.

Based on what? Since you seem to know the coming mechanics and what will be awarded how, why not share this info with us?

My fear is, that since the devs have occasionally absolutely no idea what they are doing, that this might be one of these occasions that will end up spoiling the fun for even more people. E.g. for players that are still learning and will die first. One of the main things they have to change when introducing this, is awards for damage taken, which no one has heard about yet.

[elbloom]

I waited so long for that to be introduced, all those guys coming in and leaving with 25 or 50 damage and earning nearly the same as me doing 500 ??

omg I hope they implement it right so all the prixx facerolling their heads over the keyboard will be actually rewarded much much less

All players should be motivated to support their team by doing some damage, right way to go !

[zverofaust]

What about players who just aren't that good, or have crappy computers preventing them from doing anything more than double digit amounts of damage? Will their repair bills end up costing more than they make? What about the really good players, who do 1000 damage a match with 4 kills (like me)?

[elbloom]

Raso, on 16 December 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

I usually don't get kill shots and the mechs that I pilot and tactics that I employ frequently do not have me on top of an enemy cap. I sincerely hope that what ever system they come up with doesn't lead to a game where that one guy with 500 more damage than the rest of his team now becomes the only person making reliable money.

On the other hand if it rewards the higher damage dealing and more expensive weapons systems with a higher paycheck than the more economic ones I could be happy. My Artemis SRM6s and LBX10s cost a pretty penny to fix but they also rock the enemy's world. If I was rewarded more for inflicting damage with those weapon systems than some guy with a few medium lasers on a Jenner and the repair and rearm costs were scaled appropriately I could deal. Heck that might even make me switch to my Hunchback 4P as my mainstay...

If you rock the enemys world so much, why worry about damage-based rewards when you don´t suck ?

[RedMercury]

A better solution would be to detect when a client bug is the cause (crash to desktop, no hud, 4 fps bug, black screen, etc) and treat those cases different from AFK. People who are victims of bugs should not be charged for repair, their mechs should not be locked until the match finishes. But they should not get any money or statistics from the match either. It's only fair that the game doesn't punish (or reward) players for its bugs.

Edited by RedMercury, 16 December 2012 - 06:25 AM.