149 replies to this topic

[proktor]

if i got a euro for every time i read somebody saying 'i want a mad cat' i would be a rich man, i too fear the day
the clans are released upon this game and all we see are mad cats, summoners and dire wolfs.
when i play mechwarrior 4 mercs i always stay with IS mechs and armaments and i think this game should start in 3045
so that everybody for at least 5 years knows what it is to walk around in centuries old equipment.

[Arikiel]

Darn kids these days! When I was a Mechwarrior we had to deal with overheating and we liked it.
Seriously..... we did.

I don't want to offend anyone but honestly clan fans seem like spoiled power gamers to me. If MW:O would have been set entirely during the Succession Wars I would have been perfectly happy with it. 3025 is when the game is supposed to start imo crotchety old opinion.

[Grokmoo]

I personally am concerned that once the clan tech is introduced, the carefully crafted balance of MWO will be destroyed. Clan mechs just have a much greater offensive capability, that you end up with weapons loadouts that are simply too powerful and will take out targets too quickly.

[Mechteric]

nope just fine with it, besides it'll make it more interesting seeing it happen, though I guess knowing its going to happen takes away some of the surprise factor

[Faid]

While I agree that most people who are dying for the clans to enter are the type who can only play if they have the biggest guns in the game, I have to believe that the devs are going to make it tough as he!! to join a clan and probably even tougher to stay in one.

[Aethon]

A few facts I'd like to point out:

The last Clan-centric Battletech game was released in 1995. 17 years ago. If you were born when that was released, you would be old enough to carry a driver's license and own a motor vehicle in the United States. In many states, you could even own a rifle or shotgun without parental supervision.

There have been two Clan-centric Battletech games released for the PC:
1. MechWarrior 2: 31st Century Combat
2. MechWarrior 2: Ghost Bear's Legacy

There have been ten IS-centric Battletech games released for the PC:
1. Battletech: Crescent Hawk's Inception
2. Battletech: Crescent Hawk's Revenge
3. MechWarrior 2: Mercenaries
4. MechWarrior 3
5. MechWarrior 3: Pirate's Moon
6. MechWarrior 4: Vengeance
7. MechWarrior 4: Black Knight
8. MechWarrior 4: Mercenaries
9. MechCommander
10. MechCommander 2

10 IS-centric games, as opposed to the 2 that featured Clan characters. Even if you cut out the first two and the RTS games, the IS has still enjoyed the lion's share of the attention. You've had the past 15 years to enjoy IS-centric Battletech games, and MWO is starting a few months before the Clan invasion, which means IS tech only at that time.

I have not yet seen the devs say that the IS teams cannot use Clan technology. I also have not seen it said anywhere that Clan players will start the game with a front-line Omnimech. It is also entirely possible that Clan warriors might not even get a Clan-fit IIC model; we may very well end up fighting in old, salvaged IS mechs until we're worth the serious metal, just like you. When you consider the head start IS players may receive, they may have fully-kitted-out mechs during the initial waves of the invasion, whereas the Clan players are still in their starter mechs. The key, which is oft forgotten, is that no one knows yet, with the possible exception of the devs.

That's all.

[Skylarr]

Aethon, on 18 May 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

It is also entirely possible that Clan warriors might not even get a Clan-fit IIC model;

There are some really nice IIC models out there. Some are even better than the OmniMech of it weight class.

Edited by Skylarr, 18 May 2012 - 08:36 AM.

[Aethon]

Skylarr, on 18 May 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

There are some really nice IIC models out there. Some are even better than the Omni's of it weight class.

You won't get any argument from me on that...but what I'm saying is that no one knows what the Clan starting equipment will be.

Hell, they might troll us and make us all start with Urbanmech IIC's, lol.

Edited by Aethon, 18 May 2012 - 08:36 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Aethon, on 18 May 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

You won't get any argument from me on that...but what I'm saying is that no one knows what the Clan starting equipment will be.

Hell, they might troll us and make us all start with Urbanmech IIC's, lol.

That would mean that a Clan player would not start his game directly in the invasion, but would have to "level up" in inter-Clan battles to get assigned to a front line unit (and with that, omni mechs and fights against the IS). I like the idea.

[Aethon]

Thorn Hallis, on 18 May 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

That would mean that a Clan player would not start his game directly in the invasion, but would have to "level up" in inter-Clan battles to get assigned to a front line unit (and with that, omni mechs and fights against the IS). I like the idea.

I really want to start out as a Colt, and have to earn my shoes before I can pilot the hot stuff. If we start out with the hard-core frontline Omnis, we'll never appreciate them...which is why I kind of think they'll make us work for it, unless the devs have some innovative idea to get around that...you never know.

That said...if they make us all start in Urbanmech IIC's, right at the start of the invasion, the first night of the Curbie Invasion is going to be a riot, lol.

[cinco]

gritty is an aesthetic description. you don't need low tech for that. don't know what the hell you mean by bubbly nonsense. there is nothing about clans or clan mechs that remotely matches your description of them. stop fellating the devs. now that's bubbly nonsense.

[Morashtak]

Hipjoint, on 18 May 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:

It is this exact line of thought that and the Devs lack of contorling it, that has single handly killed every Mech Warrior and Battle Tech game. Unless the Devs can force players to "play" clan if not then the clans are unbalanced and almost unbeatable.


I for one welcome the short time we will have with out Clan tech.

The devs, in any game, should not force anyone to do anything that is within the rules, however... A Clanner should be rewarded more for playing with a Clan mindset than someone who just wants the shiny stuff.

All else being equal

A 30t clan mech will beat a 30t IS mech. The clan pilot should be rewarded for the kill but much less than he would have by beating an equal in BV (or whatever value you care to use) IS mech. The IS pilot should be rewarded more for beating a clan mech that is greater in BV than himself as well but his tonnage would be more than the clan mech's tonnage more often than not.

Also, by using a marking system, say by "first strike", the clan pilots can designate which IS mechs are "theirs". This could be shown on the HUD [Enemy Pilot / Clan Pilot]. Any points scored by them on their target is at full points. Any damage they do on a target marked as another clan pilot's target gets them minimum points but never less than one. Also, any damage they do decreases the damage award their team mate would receive but never less than one.

Kill stealing would be a big no-no under this system as both pilots would receive only the minimum number of points allowed with any bonus points discarded.

Should their own clan mech be destroyed before the IS mech they've marked is destroyed the IS mech is "de-flagged" and is now in play to be marked by any clan pilot on the field. First to mark it with a weapons hit declares it "his".

This system still allows a pilot to have the clan tech and still fight like an IS pilot would but it rewards clan pilots more if they play with a clan mindset. Any that do rise in points much faster than one who does not. Those that do not are not punished, just not rewarded as generously.

Edited by Morashtak, 18 May 2012 - 11:47 AM.

[Sleeping Bear]

LordKnightFandragon, on 18 May 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

Am I happy to be driving around in Innersphere garbage? with innersphere crap weapon systems? not really...CLanner gear really did spoil me and in games i just CANT force myself to use IS stuff...it just plain simply isworse, there is no question about it...

However, it will be neat to see just how hopelessly outclassed the IS really was, with us all using IS stuff then for the first time ever encountering the Clans for the first time.....it will be....amusing? to say the least.

However, the Clanner honor system...ugh, I could never play by that...I just like Clanners for thier neat gadgets, weapons and awesome mech designs....

I think this player represents what this post is probably all about. The crusty older players dislike that some players only want to play clan for the technological advantage. They have no desire to play a clanner how the clansman would play. They have no concept of the batchall, or of zellbriegen. I think that nearly all of these so called clanners would refuse to play clan if they were restricted to a one star formation versus an inner sphere company. Another big fact of clansman ettiquette is that clanners don't concentrate fire on targets. A clansman will normally only fight one mech at a time unless his opponent is particularly cowardly and employs group fire tactics against his unit. So in my opinion, clans should be restricted to a 5 mech deployment and should get negative points for concentrating fire on IS mechs. I think if these were implemented with the introduction of clan playable players, then you'd see less clansman then you think.

Edited by Sleeping Bear, 18 May 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[Owl Cutter]

I don't currently intend to play as a Clanner in any game, and the first reason has nothing to do with my problems with their role in the narrative, or the "munchiness" of their hardware, but simply the fact that I just don't have the mindset to play as one. If PGI finds a way to make it such that playing as a Clanner only really works if you follow their protocols, I might reconsider...

[Woodstock]

I like the idea of the clan invasion ... but I dont want them controlled by players.

[AC]

I am also happy that there are no clans. Someone posted that most of the MW cames are IS centric, but I disagree... I feel they are clan centric. They always feature clan tech, and even though you play as IS... the goal is to fight clans and capture that cheesy clan tech and use it. It will be a nice change to play as IS only. I hope it lasts. Clan tech introduces a HUGE balance issue. Even with the Table Top BV system, I doubt we would see balanced IS vs Clan games.

[Carl Wrede]

Aethon, on 18 May 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

Some of us grew up with the Clan point of view; I never knew what the "IS" in front of certain mech names meant in Ghost Bear's Legacy until I did some reading in the holotank archive in the Clan Hall. I was too young to realize Terra meant Earth, so it took me a while to make the connections, and figure out exactly what the IS was. My first REAL exposure to the IS came with MechWarrior 2: Mercenaries, and painted a rather gritty, capitalistic dystopian picture for me. It was an excellent game, of course, but the IS is the new thing to me, not the Clans.

However, ever since MW2: Mercs, we've been stuck playing as warriors in house/merc units, with the Clans playing the role of NPC boogeymen that drop epic loot/mounts when they die. They've gone from humans fighting for something they believe in or fighting for survival (as with the Inner Sphere powers) to maniacal, evil, invaders from outer space. To say it's become silly and childish would be a gross understatement. The developers (MS, mostly) didn't even view the Clans separately anymore; it's just Clan = evil. For an idea as to how different one Clan can be from another, whip out your sourcebooks (or go to www.sarna.net) and read up on Clan Hell's Horses and Clan Smoke Jaguar sometime.

Long story short: I'm really looking forward to reprising the role of a Clan warrior again, but I'll still enjoy my 'working vacation' in the Inner Sphere while I wait.

The bolded part is exactly what the Clans was from the beginning for people playing BT long before they invented the Clans.

Edited by Carl Wrede, 18 May 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[Dustbunny]

longer they hold off on clans the better. and when they do come hopefully they come in balanced and not overpowered but then they are the clans .

i wonder if and of the dievs will randomly drop with player grooups maybe whatever team the dev is on gets xtra c-bills or something if that team wins and the dev stays alive.

person on enemy team the kills dev gets gift or something.

[CloudCobra]

This is such a generational thing some people dont like change they liked it the way it was but things always change heck the clans aren't even new to the games they've been around for a long time in fact they've been in battletech now longer than it it was without them. One other point the inersphere's tech level was about to take off anyway helm core had already changed things. Oh and we clanners lost the war in the end anyway.

[Panzer Faust]

Xuvios, on 18 May 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

completely happy we get a full year without any clans or clan tech or any other bubbly nonsense to make it less gritty and fulfilling

every single post i see that is clan this clan that, and the atrocious devotion to mech's that make it easy... i want to puke rivets and rainbows

i want a full year of robot destroying glee and for each of those battles to be hard fought and scrappy...

and a year from now i fully expect the Dev's to path the game, and start interfering in our matches with Mech's that just completely dominate us... and i want that pattern to continue for a month or two... i want to feel the desperation of trying to deal with them....

then the clan invasion will happen and everyone will be puking rainbows made from double heatsinks, ER lasers, Ultra A/Cs, Endo steel, FF armor, retching up the same old experience that made me turn off MW:2,3, and 4

so... is anyone else glad that we get to have the IS for year, that we got to tough it out in subpar machinery thats been slugging it out for 3 or 4 centuries...

or am i the only one?

I love the Idea of the DEVs coming in randomly with Clanner mechs making our lives hell and making us earn the better equipment by having to face it in the field first. Facing clan power armor, AKA toads, would be neet as well but players should not be in them. this game is Mechwarrior darnet. Not power armor warrior or tank warrior or infantry guy with a missile launcher warrior.

Edited by Panzer Faust, 18 May 2012 - 01:59 PM.