223 replies to this topic

[Kaijin]

Landeraxe, on 17 December 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

Uh, they just stated they are removing player based rewards (like base cap/assist).

No, they removed the piddling cap reward on assault mode and will be adding more. Did you even read the post?

[Smeghead87]

It puts the emphasis back on combat. Running and hiding shut down will gain you nothing. Base rushing will gain you nothing. The only way to make the big bucks is shoot things up, even if you lose, your rewards are based on the effort you put into your team. You could kill 7 of the enemy mechs, lose to a base cap and come out with better rewards than the winning team.

This is an excellent move and I love it. But I've always loved going out in blaze of glory anyway

[sokitumi]

J4ckInthebox, on 17 December 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Repair costs are maybe a little too high, but removing them completly ?

sledgehammer surgery again.

Totally agree.

IMO 2 things would have been enough balance it:

• remove the ability to drop without a full RNR
  
• make total losses never greater than 0 for a match

But PGI opts to just delete it completely? These people >_<

[Kaijin]

neviu, on 17 December 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

Great now will be seeing more and more atlasses cause its free to run,, great, thought about the balance? This will ruin it totaly

More slow (easy to hit) mechs on the field can't be a bad thing.

[Darth JarJar]

ManDaisy, on 17 December 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

I am kinda worried that the devs have scrapped repairs all together. Repair cost are what kept stupid people from running in and dying. Now that its gone I anticipate a lot of dumber players and suicide tactics.

Playing a lot of pub matches as a solo, I would argue that the repair costs as they stand really weren't deterring this behavior to start with. Will be interesting to see if, and how much, the change will increase this behavior.

[Dagger6T6]

unless reading comprehension fails me, they are not really removing the repair and rearm costs in an overall sense...

yes they seem to be removing the physical button clicking of repair and rearm... but they are reducing the actual number of cbills you receive per match to offset the fact you are not paying to repair and rearm.

so as i'm reading it if you got say 200k per match but it cost 100k in RNR, you will now basically be getting in the neighborhood of 100k per match... (200k-100k)... so not really a huge change unless you were one of those 75-percenters that didn't rearm and just ran extra tons of ammo.

the cbill bonuses for actually fighting have been boosted so that is where to make the money... instead of just low ball repair rearm or other types of farming

sounds like a good thing to me... can't wait to see it in action.

Edited by Dagger6T6, 17 December 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[Wescott]

ManDaisy, on 17 December 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

I am kinda worried that the devs have scrapped repairs all together. Repair cost are what kept stupid people from running in and dying. Now that its gone I anticipate a lot of dumber players and suicide tactics.

It sure is likely to increase stupidly excessive missile spamming as no costs are holding things in ballance.

[Pando]

ManDaisy, on 17 December 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

I am kinda worried that the devs have scrapped repairs all together. Repair cost are what kept stupid people from running in and dying. Now that its gone I anticipate a lot of dumber players and suicide tactics.

Those people won't be getting many c-bills now will they. Did you read the entire post?

[p4r4g0n]

The removal of repair and rearm cost and the structure of the new reward system will have a big impact on the game.

Off the cuff, the new reward system appears to encourage getting kills and kill assists. All other rewards are just gravy, nice to have but not essential.

Conclusion: PGI should have just given us TDM mode and be done with it. Also, I now understand why ECM is working as intended.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 17 December 2012 - 10:48 AM.

[Penance]

WRONG. It looks like everything is performance based. So if you rambo



and die fast, your rewards / earnings are slim compared to those who last to the end of the match.

I'm excited, although the game is loosing some of the sim / TT aspects, it's being made more accessable to the masses.

Edited by Penance, 17 December 2012 - 10:44 AM.

[ManDaisy]

No one will base cap. No one will defend. Assault is now death match. No groups will divide forces to cover area, instead they will all clump as one and then meet in the middle and die. No tactics, just whoever dies faster.

To the above... Kill assist. Which means shooting everyone once and dieing is almost as good as a win -25,000 c-bills. If anything KDR E-peen will be thru the roof.

Edited by ManDaisy, 17 December 2012 - 10:46 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

sokitumi, on 17 December 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

Totally agree.

IMO 2 things would have been enough balance it:

• remove the ability to drop without a full RNR
  
• make total losses never greater than 0 for a match

But PGI opts to just delete it completely? These people >_<

I agree. They need to keep RNR. The mentioned ideas in the above quote sound like a good starting point.

Removing RNR only proves to me that PGI is desperately trying to figure out what to do. This type of wild decision making kind of concerns me a bit.

[Phalanx100bc]

My fear is that this is a knee-jerk reaction to the instant gratification ADD demographic. It's moves like these that turn what I jope will be a tactics-based simulator into another FPS.

Game immersion into the Mechwarrior universe is important.....as is realism and consequences for your actions or lack thereof in the game.

Need C-Bills? Learn to play pilot well and support teamates. I won't happen overnight. It will actually take effort and some time on your part and you will learn from your mistakes as there were economic consequences for it....well there USED to be.

[Penance]

Phalanx100bc, on 17 December 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

My fear is that this is a knee-jerk reaction to the instant gratification ADD demographic. It's moves like these that turn what I jope will be a tactics-based simulator into another FPS.

Game immersion into the Mechwarrior universe is important.....as is realism and consequences for your actions or lack thereof in the game.

Need C-Bills? Learn to play pilot well and support teamates. I won't happen overnight. It will actually take effort and some time on your part and you will learn from your mistakes as there were economic consequences for it....well there USED to be.

True, but the issue is that for free players who had no premium or founders, those people were having a tedious time. Before I added some premium time (still haven't started my founders time) the grind was really bad, that's primarily why this is being done, not for whiners, but to help make the early game more viable for free players.

People still need to build mechs the right way, pilot them, and play with team-work...this change makes things easier on the back end, they still need to play, and are now rewarded for doing so.

Edited by Penance, 17 December 2012 - 10:57 AM.

[Pugastrius]

The biggest benefit to removing Repair / Rearm costs are:

1) Good Play is No longer Punished: That is, if I did a really good job of torso twisting to have my arms/torso/legs destroyed before I go down, I got slapped with a bigger repair bill than just standing face to face with the opponent and letting the opponent Core me.

2) Rearm Costs No longer Punish the "un-knowing": Let's be honest here, most veterans never paid for rearms anyway, we'd simply take the 75% free and call it a day... thus this doesn't really change much for the veterans, but it does help those that didn't know of this "method" of re-arming.

Removing R&R is a pretty "clean" method for fixing both of these issues...

[Joseph Mallan]

Pugastrius, on 17 December 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

The biggest benefit to removing Repair / Rearm costs are:

1) Good Play is No longer Punished: That is, if I did a really good job of torso twisting to have my arms/torso/legs destroyed before I go down, I got slapped with a bigger repair bill than just standing face to face with the opponent and letting the opponent Core me.

More damage to you costs more to repair. It might keep you alive a little longer but 90% armor replacement should cost more than 60%.

Quote

2) Rearm Costs No longer Punish the "un-knowing": Let's be honest here, most veterans never paid for rearms anyway, we'd simply take the 75% free and call it a day... thus this doesn't really change much for the veterans, but it does help those that didn't know of this "method" of re-arming.

This punishes a New player... once! After the first sticker shock, if teh player hasn't adujusted his expenses he has himself to blame.

Quote

Removing R&R is a pretty "clean" method for fixing both of these issues...

It's a very stupid fix for a bunch of sniveling. The one thing I like so far is the 100% pay for Trial users.

[Noodlesoup]

repairs didn't stop anyone from doing stupid stuff, it just punished them after the fact. this actually goes to the base of human psychology. do we respond better to positive or negative reinforcement?

i think overall there's a time and place for negative reinforcement, but video games is one of the few where this concept plays out poorly. overall i think the trend has shown that people respond better to and engage more when positive reinforcement is used (see achievements) versus negative reinforcement (see games with no checkpoints/extremely punishing deaths)

now there are always some who thrive on the risk of negative consequences, but the majority of players do not.

now i certainly would like to see a detailed list of damage i took at the end of a match so i can know how to play better.

i think overall, pinning match rewards to performance is a much better idea than trying to balance mech repairs currently.

[Inappropriate1191]

I'm glad they're removing RnR, as now, I can actually grind using my own mechs, instead of using those horrible, crappy, and horrible trial mechs.

I think that's one of the problems with MWO, is how painful it is to start out. That's gonna make the newbies run away in droves. Anyone with an eye for basic economics can see why that's a bad idea.

From what I see, most of the people angered by this are the kind of "hardcore," elitist [redacted] that make games no fun to play, anyways.

Edited by Chris K, 03 January 2013 - 02:18 PM.
offensive

[Joseph Mallan]

Noodlesoup, on 17 December 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

repairs didn't stop anyone from doing stupid stuff, it just punished them after the fact. this actually goes to the base of human psychology. do we respond better to positive or negative reinforcement?

i think overall there's a time and place for negative reinforcement, but video games is one of the few where this concept plays out poorly. overall i think the trend has shown that people respond better to and engage more when positive reinforcement is used (see achievements) versus negative reinforcement (see games with no checkpoints/extremely punishing deaths)

now there are always some who thrive on the risk of negative consequences, but the majority of players do not.

now i certainly would like to see a detailed list of damage i took at the end of a match so i can know how to play better.

i think overall, pinning match rewards to performance is a much better idea than trying to balance mech repairs currently.

I have no reason to have CASE, or AMS on my Mech cause I don't have to fear teh hammer after the match any more. I can carry 12 tons of Ammo cause I don't have to pay to replace it or my Whole Mech when I take an ammo hit. The whole idea of having cost is balancing the concequences. Now there ia no need to fear the results of makig boneheaded choices!

[TruePoindexter]

ManDaisy, on 17 December 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

I am kinda worried that the devs have scrapped repairs all together. Repair cost are what kept stupid people from running in and dying. Now that its gone I anticipate a lot of dumber players and suicide tactics.

The consequence seems to be you get paid less. It's kind of like how WoW beta had instead of rest XP an "exhaustion" mechanic where after a few hours you would gain XP at 50% of the rate. Players hated it. They renamed it "rest" XP and the before 50% exp was called base and the rest XP was a 200% bonus. Literally nothing changed mathematically but players love the concept now.

Now in MWO instead of getting punished for poor play with a massive repair bill you simply don't earn as much money. The numbers probably work out about the same but what was a negative trait has been renamed into something positive. I think it's a psychological fix for the better overall.