223 replies to this topic

[Busukaba]

Haven't been around for a week, so might be a stupid question, but is this only a temporary measure or is RnR gone for good? I think it was an interesting mechanic and through all the bitching about ammo costs too much or Ferro Fibrous costs half my winnings to repair, I didn't mind it. Course, I'm casual and only have had enough money to buy a couple Commandos and a Hunchback so far and I don't think it's possible to go negative after a match (don't have any XL engines so maybe it is...)

Anyway, I do like that you get more reward for an assist. I don't get a lot of kills generally, so I like that. Makes those 5 assist 10 spotting matches I'm always getting very lucrative. But part of me would still like to see RnR active...

[FerretGR]

Busukaba: I know your anecdotal evidence points to R&R working well, but you were running economic mechs based on your account. Try running an assault with a missile focus, for example, and you'd find pretty quickly that unless you're not interested in earning c-bills, you'd probably want to move to something more economical.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Busukaba, on 17 December 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Haven't been around for a week, so might be a stupid question, but is this only a temporary measure or is RnR gone for good? I think it was an interesting mechanic and through all the bitching about ammo costs too much or Ferro Fibrous costs half my winnings to repair, I didn't mind it. Course, I'm casual and only have had enough money to buy a couple Commandos and a Hunchback so far and I don't think it's possible to go negative after a match (don't have any XL engines so maybe it is...)

Anyway, I do like that you get more reward for an assist. I don't get a lot of kills generally, so I like that. Makes those 5 assist 10 spotting matches I'm always getting very lucrative. But part of me would still like to see RnR active...

we dont know yet. anyone who says its temporary or perminant is just guessing

[Bagheera]

PANZERBUNNY, on 17 December 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

ya, people will be playing with more XL's and then start complaining they die too fast.

I expect some changes to XL's in the future.

Sadly, you are probably right.

[Agent of Change]

Vassago Rain, on 17 December 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

But you're proving my point.

You have 30 million and a full garage. That's great! So uhh, my brother has trialmechs. He can't buy anything. I can't buy anything, either. I have everything already.

There's also no new people to play against, because they can't make the money needed to get competitive gear, as they were not here since day #1, and you have no real reason to take your fancy toys out for playing against others on your own level, as that would pay you much, much less money than feeding on the n00bs in their trialmechs.

Sooo clearly the answer is to hand it to them on a silver platter.

Let me be clear: The Cadet bonus is a fantastic idea, it allows new players to get and customize their own mech in no time.

Removal of RnR however doesn't promote smart efficient builds or learning to make the most of what you do bring to the battle so you can earn your repair bill plus some. I can almost hear the wail of anger from the future when/if they put repair back in and everyone who has been playing stupidly (especially the noobs because they don't know better) are suddenly getting hit with repair bills and they don't understand why they can't make money.

Did RnR need to be tweaked yes, removed no. Working players into their first personal mech quickly great, not easing them into the costs of the level 2 gear not so great.

Also at this point WTF is my premium time for? if my earnings never slow there's no reason to boost them, there's really no reason for a new user to get premium time, or buy mechs for that matter.

Removing RnR seems like a poorly implemented knee jerk reaction to people whining about a problem that could have been fixed by tweaking the system. I would put money that removing it is going to create all manner of unintended consequences not the least of which is a slow down in revenue because you simply don't have a good reason to buy premium time or mechs.

[Teralitha]

ManDaisy, on 17 December 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Repair cost are what kept stupid people from running in and dying.

Where you get that idea? Stupid is as stupid does. Nothing stopped players from running in and dying. And still wont.

[Kraven Kor]

Vassago Rain, on 17 December 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

You're acting like many of us don't have 30 million whenever there's a new mech about to be released. Right now, the rich have everything they want and need, but with the new model...the poor can have the things they want, too, and you're rewarded for doing well. So if I have to carry 7 players in my atlas, I get compensated for it, while the lame ravens who circlestrafe for 50 damage get less.

I also won't get slapped in the face with 140,000 in repairs as my 'reward' for dealing out 800 damage, with four kills.

Uh, no, no I don't.

I have thus far, been able to buy: 2 Centurions, 2 Hunchbacks, a Commando, and two Cataphracts with CBills. In about 400ish matches. Not all of those with premium bonus, and certainly not all in a Founders or Hero mech. Bought 2 more with MC - my first Centurion (after fitting DHS to Hunchback and not having enough money to properly fit it...), and the first Cataphract (after being told I couldn't/shouldn't come on 8v8 teams with a medium mech...)

So no, not all of us are swimming in CBills to where we don't feel the plight of the newbie

I'm still grinding for CBills for my next Cataphract, the 3D. Then my Awesomes, then Atlas, then Dragon, then Stalker...

[Universe Man]

I, too, think removing RnR is not a good idea. Just throwing in my 2c, since I won't need to use it for Premium time anymore

[Kraven Kor]

Teralitha, on 17 December 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

Where you get that idea? Stupid is as stupid does. Nothing stopped players from running in and dying. And still wont.

Never underestimate Stupidity - The Will to be Stupid is a very powerful force, and I myself find I've fallen into it from time to time

[multiplesanta34]

Taking out R&R at this stage was a good idea. In the context of a meta-game or CW it made sense, but in a 8v8 DM all it did was limit what chassis and components you could use for no real reason. It'll be back eventually i'm sure, but until then players can actually use the mechs and weapons they want instead of being forced into Commandos or Jenners to stay afloat.

[Cpt Jason McCarthy]

I can't believe that some people can be THAT stupid !

Didn't ever finished a game with as much repair&rearm cost when still alive as when you got blown off !?!

The game is finally rewarding performance ! AND smart participation !

LESS suiciders or afks, less people playing like ******* and dying too fast !

How could you think that it will hurt your incomes ? Because you were pug stomping/farming with your premade teammates ! It's a good thing you f*****g exploiters !

[Deadoon]

I like the removal, combined with the cadet bonus, rewards new players alot, doesn't punish them for bad decisions.

It also makes specialising upgrades, like ferro and Xl engines, things that weaken you a lot, via removing slots or making you 3X easier to kill, more viable choices considering the costs involved in them.

This system rewards Performance and makes people fight to the last limb rather than escape on first contact due to they lost an arm.You lost your weapons? Ram em, or cap the base if you are losing, or the last guy went into hiding.

Edited by Deadoon, 17 December 2012 - 02:40 PM.

[COOL HANDS]

Im not to sure about this rnr being removed the sim elements was always the alure of the mechwarrior series. With rnr being taken out of the game this will also remove the risk the consequence that comes with the territory of running an expensive mech.Should I go in guns blazing or should I hang back and play more cautious. Should I take out that pricy atlas in this match or should I take out my cheaper variant to save on costs choices which are being removed with this new feature.In all the mechwarrior games I've played I dont ever recall rnr being removed.But hopefully mwo will retaine what the series has always been a simulator.I dont think anyone would be interested in playing call of mechwarrior online if so hawken is available.I perdict alot of super builds when this patch drops.

[Kraven Kor]

Shadowpunisher, on 17 December 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

How could you think that it will hurt your incomes ? Because you were pug stomping/farming with your premade teammates ! It's a good thing you f*****g exploiters !

I don't care about "my income."

I fear "the removal of the economic metagame." I just want CBills to have meaning, I want to have to manage my money in game, work towards saving up for things and have to make financial decisions about what mech or equipment to use for various match types or whatever.

Because those economics were a major part of the old Mercenaries RPG. The rules for running a merc company were a lot of fun, and made the post-battle salvage and repair have an impact on the next mission. "Crap, my AC/20 got damaged, and I don't have the salvage to fix it... can we stick the AC/10 we salvaged on there for now?"

[Tahuti]

I realize that removing RnR is a move to get more players into MWO and that's good. PGI needs money to develop the our beloved holy grail. Good move! The changes must go on.

On the other hand: WE NEED HARDCORE! TAKE ME TO THE MERCS! DO THE COMMUNITY WARFARE!

Economy doesn't mean: Get more C-Bills, it means MANAGMENT.

The elite mechwarriors need a CHALLENGE! Take us to the REAL frontline!

[Kristov Kerensky]

Kraven, those who are all happy and excited about the removal of RnR, they don't care about the economy of the game, they don't care about the metagame, they don't even understand that this is NOT the beta for a new FPS featuring giant stompy robots but the beta for an MMO, just look at Vassago and his buddies in Kong, they all think this is just CoD with robots for avatars(that's Hawken btw, if that's what you want, try it, it's what you want).

What's funny is that they don't realize that what they THINK the rewards system will be isn't what it will be. It lists the bonuses for the top 8...nice right?

Game shows a list of 16 when it shows final scores, 1st through 16th, ranked by XP earned, not by team, so...yeah..I suspect we'll be hearing a lot MORE whining and complaining before week's end when all the people who can't do well in this game find out they aren't getting any bonus for placing 10th or 16th...

[FerretGR]

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 December 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

Kraven, those who are all happy and excited about the removal of RnR, they don't care about the economy of the game, they don't care about the metagame, they don't even understand that this is NOT the beta for a new FPS featuring giant stompy robots but the beta for an MMO, just look at Vassago and his buddies in Kong, they all think this is just CoD with robots for avatars(that's Hawken btw, if that's what you want, try it, it's what you want).

A lot of this happens around here. You stereotype your opposition because it makes them seem unreasonable and makes their position easy to defeat. But I don't fit your stereotype of the player who supports this move. I've been a BT player since I got the original boxset. I love the metagame. I love RP. I have written fanfic, for goodness sake. I bought my Founder's package before I even had a PC to play this game on because I'm such a fan of the IP. However, I think, as I've said, what we got to go with the immersion gained by simulating repairs were players who gamed the system by AFK/suicide farming. I love immersion, and I think CW will be an awesome part of this game. I don't think immersion is broken by removing repair by any stretch of the imagination.

There are any number of factors of life in the Battletech Universe that aren't being handled in this game, and I don't see you folks getting uptight about those things. Why draw your line in the sand at repairing mechs? To paraphrase a common turn of phrase around here, this isn't Techwarrior Online or Mech Mechanic Online.

In removing R&R, they're removing an unimportant part of the formula for immersion, and with it, they're removing the motivation to AFK/suicide farm. Worth it from my grognard-y perspective.

Edited by FerretGR, 17 December 2012 - 04:15 PM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Tahuti, on 17 December 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

I realize that removing RnR is a move to get more players into MWO and that's good. PGI needs money to develop the our beloved holy grail. Good move! The changes must go on.

On the other hand: WE NEED HARDCORE! TAKE ME TO THE MERCS! DO THE COMMUNITY WARFARE!

Economy doesn't mean: Get more C-Bills, it means MANAGMENT.

The elite mechwarriors need a CHALLENGE! Take us to the REAL frontline!

I doubt people aren't playing this game because of R&R. Pretty sure there are other GLARING problems above and beyond someone selecting auto R&R or clicking a button every match.

Seriously.

[Desicator]

Please bring repairs and ammo back.......this is awful.

WHY?
1. No repair = no penalty for running at the enemy like a tard and just breeds stupidity.
2. No ammo = LRM spam fire with no consequences.....ie rearming cost for poor firing decision

Please find the middle on this issue and stop going to opposite ends of the spectrum to fix problems. I understand if your intention was to get responses, but this is just insane.

[Deadoon]

Desicator, on 21 December 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

Please bring repairs and ammo back.......this is awful.

WHY?
1. No repair = no penalty for running at the enemy like a tard and just breeds stupidity.
2. No ammo = LRM spam fire with no consequences.....ie rearming cost for poor firing decision

Please find the middle on this issue and stop going to opposite ends of the spectrum to fix problems. I understand if your intention was to get responses, but this is just insane.

Yes, like the lrm spam from everything except the stalker has increased at all? Wait no it hasn't, going back to welfare ammo and repairs, people will just be gimping their teams combat effectiveness, just like before or entire mech classes, both default and accepted as good will become useless. By forcing them to use full repairs you limit the usefulness of fire-support mechs as a whole and revoke their ability to SUPPORT their team.


Since you don't seem to think about all the expensive techs full effects here is why all of it is pre-balanced without repair costs, which make them all less useful.

XL engines, makes it so you die instantly from a side torso destruction, my atlas survives torso destruction and is still combat effective, due to my standard engine. They also take up twice the slot space as well.

Endo steel, you gais a few extra tons to use for weapons and ammo but it uses 14 slots on your mech, sure you have a total of 7 in your center legs and head, but those other 7 have to go elsewhere.

Ferro, same thing less savings.

DHS, extra heatsinks take 3 slots each, cannot be used as filler in legs, center or head, and only provide .4 extra heat for 2 extra slots used.

UAC, double rate of fire yay!, jamming on single fire due to glitch, a full 16% less ammo per ton, uses 1 slot more and weighs 1 ton more, meaning less ammo for you.

Streak missile launchers, you cannot dumb fire, uses 1 missile slot for 1/3 the firepower of even a srm6, weighs 50% more. Only reason they are op is due to srm being up because they have 0 tracking ability at all, while they are supposed to have some at least and interlock not affecting lock on time.

Only lbx are better than original autocannons, and that is due to THEY ARE BETTER, they suck in mwo due to crit mechanics, ****** firing cone and lack of slug ammo.

You also must think that suppressing fire to keep the enemies heads down is a waste of ammo?
That is what lrm is, they are the suppressing fire of this game.

Edited by Deadoon, 21 December 2012 - 10:34 PM.