66 replies to this topic

[Joe Mallad]

In the Medium mech Vid showing the Hunchback with the AC/20, the Dev makes mention to the energy variant that is called the Swayback. My question is... If the Sway back is in the game and or in some way can be built, which variant would you prefer and why?

Here is the bio for the Swayback for those that may not know what it's starting loadout is.

HBK-4P - Also called the Swayback due to its less-exaggerated torso, the 4P Hunchback is modified to carry only energy weapons. The Autocannon/20 was replaced with six additional Medium Lasers. In order to handle the incredibly high heat load, the 'Mech has twenty three heat sinks. While this may seem like a downgrade of the design, the combined firepower of all eight Medium Lasers can do twice as much damage as the Autocannon they replaced

the reference to all 8 medium lasers shows that like the AC/20 variant, this Swayback variant also has a medium laser in each arm as well.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 18 May 2012 - 06:00 PM.

[Ranager]

Hmm, that would be good but also ac's are good because they might rip off an arm!

[Joe Mallad]

Nayron, on 18 May 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Hmm, that would be good but also ac's are good because they might rip off an arm!

if you are talking about an AC/20... yes it will rip off an arm or rip up most anything for that matter lol. But if you can hit something, anything with 8 medium lasers... the other mech is still losing something just the same lol and IF the Swayback variant is in the game, we still dont know if it may or may not have additional energy hardpoints in those arms. The AC/20 variant has 6 energy hardpoints, 3 in each arm so the Swayback could be similar in that it too MAY have multiple energy hardpoints in each arm on top of the 6 in the right torso. Its just that the standard base Swayback variant only comes equipped with 1 medium laser in each arm but again MAY have still empty unused energy hard points.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 18 May 2012 - 06:13 PM.

[Coralld]

I would probably have to go with the standard AC/20 Hunchy because its heat is far easier to manage and you can keep popping off shots as long as you have ammo. But the Swayback does have longevity because it doesn't have to worry about running out of ammo

Edited by Coralld, 18 May 2012 - 06:14 PM.

[Ursus_Spiritus]

THe issue with 8 weapons, is yes that is potentially 40points of damage but that is IF it is all allocated to the same location and at least with TT you have the dice working for or against you. I am guessing that in MWO you have say two in each arm and two in each torso (just an example) so you have to bring both cross hairs on target and or add in movement, terrain, target movement, torso twist etc.

Just things to consider. 40pts is nice, but is it a solid 40pts vs the 20 of the AC?

[ice trey]

It's too early for me to tell, just yet. There are several factors, mostly pertaining to exactly how true are the MWO mechanics going to be to the Tabletop mechanics. In a direct conversion, I'd take the Swayback, but there are still many things to consider. How will critical hits work in this game? What are the mechanics of how the weapons deal damage compared to tabletop? Are ammo explosions going to be a concern?

The way things are looking so far, it looks like Lasers may spread their damage over a period of time, possibly damaging multiple locations rather than just where they first make contact. In that case, the AC20 may be an ideal armor-breaking weapon, paving the way for other, lighter designs and missile boats to savage the internal components of the 'mech.

[Thom Frankfurt]

Swayback for the win!!!!

If I remember correctly the usual AC20 (the one from the introbox set) version of the Hunch only has one ton of ammo... 5 shots. I don't care how much ammo you have, a shot from that monster cannon hurts. That being said, with the 4P/Swayback you can shoot all day long and not have ammo issues (this includes explosions and me being a lousy shot.)

Plus the longevity on the battlefield is a plus.

I think that if they went head to head if could go either way, depending on the rolls... but laws of averages would favor the 4P in the long run.

[Ursus_Spiritus]

From what I remember in the novels there were countless descriptions of Gauss/AC/LRMs tearing open armor then pin point shots followed up via energy weapons (sometims with ballistics) did some nasty damage to the mechs internals ;P

Granted not all warriors are as accurate as say Kai, Phelan, Vlad, Natasha etc.

[Major Tom]

The fundamental problem with both the hunchback and the swayback is that they are both semi-assault mechs. They do not have the armor for a stand up to an assault brawl, nor the speed/range to go after lighter mechs. A stock hunchback/swayback will not make it into my hanger, however I do have my eye on a PPC based swayback...

But back on topic, in a Hunchback vs Swayback match I would take Hunchback. I think with the way the targeting and heat system work, that a well timed AC/20 will be more effective than laser spray.

[Joe Mallad]

ALL of you have good arguments either way and I see potential in both variants if used right. Also while it was mentioned that with up to 8 medium lasers on the Swayback causing a hellish amount of heat... ALSO keep in mind that the Swayback has many more heat sinks to compensate for the extra heat. AND... there is nothing saying you HAVE to always fire all 8 lasers at a time. Remember, you can link them to fire as 4 and 4 or IDK... the 6 in the chest together and the 2 arm lasers as a set and only use all 8 on that 3rd ALPHA STRIKE setting when and only if needed. Also, with not having the AC/20 ammo to worry about in that now very empty left torso, you free up a bit more weight. This weight may already be accounted for with the addition of the added heat sinks? But regardless... if you do end up with a few extra tons free because of not having to worry about storing ammo, you can always add more armor to make the Swayback last just that much longer or an extra component that may decide if this mech can be a decent command mech or any other number of things I guess. The point is... I think IF the true Swayback variant is indeed in the game, It will no doubt give people two very distinct versions of the same mech without really feeling like the same mech if you understand that?

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 18 May 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[Joe Mallad]

Major Tom, on 18 May 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

The fundamental problem with both the hunchback and the swayback is that they are both semi-assault mechs. They do not have the armor for a stand up to an assault brawl, nor the speed/range to go after lighter mechs. A stock hunchback/swayback will not make it into my hanger, however I do have my eye on a PPC based swayback...

But back on topic, in a Hunchback vs Swayback match I would take Hunchback. I think with the way the targeting and heat system work, that a well timed AC/20 will be more effective than laser spray.

wait... the AC/20 version does not need speed to keep up with the lighter mech. As said before, if you become good enough with any AC you put in this mech, there is no reason you cant pick off those lighter mech. And as for the Swayback... while you may need to get in closer to take the fight to someone, you hit anything with 6 to 8 medium lasers and thay are going to back off of you real fact... Assaults included. And... Im not sure if you know but a Hunchback of any variant has plenty of Armor and I would take a Hunhback into most any slug fest. Its what it was created for.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 18 May 2012 - 06:52 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The Swayback is visible across the Hangar Bay between 0:37 -> 0:41 in the following video. This has been confirmed by Flying Debris, himself.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 18 May 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[Joe Mallad]

Prosperity Park, on 18 May 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

The Swayback is visible across the Hangar Bay between 0:37 -> 0:41 in the following video. This has been confirmed by Flying Debris, himself.

OK... I can jump on that bandwagon of it being confirmed but can you really determine that the mech in the back is the Swayback vesrion? Not saying your lying, just asking how you can tell? Is it visibly clear that the AC is not there and the chest has the 6 lasers in it?

[Kenyon Burguess]

i def want to keep with that ac/20 slot. gauss or UAC/20 in its latter years is too hard to resist

[Sassori]

Yeah I think if any version of the Hunchback made it into my hangar It'd not be either the swayback nor the stock load out. It'd be something customized, but, considering we start with only one mech... it'll be a long while till I have any hunchback in my hangar I'm sure since I'd pick the Centurion over it if I decided to start at 50 tons

[Joe Mallad]

Geist Null, on 18 May 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

i def want to keep with that ac/20 slot. gauss or UAC/20 in its latter years is too hard to resist

no doubt... and I think I will honestly end up with both in my hanger. You know for those days you just want to obliterate something with the AC or gauss weapons or for those days that you want to play laser tag and play with your food for a bit lol

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 18 May 2012 - 07:03 PM.

[Arikiel]

I'd go with the Swayback... that however is just because I don't like having to worry about ammo. It might not be an issue in this game but when you get stuck behind enemy lines for days or weeks at time you don't want to be dependent on ammo.

Also the more weapons systems you have the less you have to worry about your one big boom getting knocked out. Rendering you all but useless.

[Coralld]

I would probably have both in my hanger as both are very good. However my favorite variant of the Hunchy is the HBK-4H which replaces the AC/20 for an AC/10, yes half the damage but gain a BIG boost to range relatively speaking, plus more ammo and you get two more Medium Lasers for a total of four Medium Lasers and one Small Laser so I can still dish out AC/20 damage at close range with those Lasers.

[Joe Mallad]

Well one thing is for sure, I think ill end up spending a lot of time in mech lab lol. Just thinking of all the different outcomes that can come of messing not only with weapons, ammo placement and armor, but all the other internal components as well... i may forget at times that there is a battlefield outside of mech lab lol. Its like getting that sweet car you always wanted and now you just want to deck it out farther and or wash it like 6 time in one day and forget that you have a job to go to or family inside waiting on you lol. To me it will be like getting that new sports car and wanting to grab a cover and sleep in it for a week just because you can.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 18 May 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[Joe Mallad]

Coralld, on 18 May 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

I would probably have both in my hanger as both are very good. However my favorite variant of the Hunchy is the HBK-4H which replaces the AC/20 for an AC/10, yes half the damage but gain a BIG boost to range relatively speaking, plus more ammo and you get two more Medium Lasers for a total of four Medium Lasers and one Small Laser so I can still dish out AC/20 damage at close range with those Lasers.

here is another one for you... being it has 3 ballistic hardpoints in that section, whats stopping you from putting in 3 AC/2s? Sure less damage against the bigger mech but think of it this way. Those AC/2s are lighter so it still frees up a lot of weight for loads of AC/2 ammo and the AC/2 has even more range on the AC/10. Use the faster firing, longer ranged AC/2s together as the light mech killers and save the 2 to 6 medium or maybe 2 large arm lasers for anything else you may run across?