79 replies to this topic

[Jedi Outcast]

I consider it a huge win when I go toe to toe with multiple people and survive the match.

It's just the fact that I put together a mech that no only let me out-pilot the enemy, also trashed their mech.

Hell it's why I love to play the game, to be the atlas that steps between the enemy and a mortally wounded ally and takes the punch. Coming out alive is a huge plus.

Edited by Interrogator, 18 December 2012 - 09:26 AM.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Really? Brawlers are the "easymode of the week" now? Well, I guess it was their turn or something. Last I checked it was LRM support pilots who were being accused of being skill-less scrubs, generally by people preferring brawling mechs. I guess the direct fire sniper types will be stepping up to the plate next then.

Honestly, people just need to shut the hell up and let others pilot the style of mech they have _fun_ with without getting their knickers in a twist. If someone likes a close range brawler, well, good for them. If someone prefers sitting back and bringing the rain, good for them. If someone likes shooting the wings of unsuspecting flies from a distance of a klik with directfire cannons, well, good for them. If someone likes to play balanced stock mechs despite those maybe not being optimized, good for them. It's noone elses business what another pilot prefers to bring to the battlefield, and anyone who says "but you're weakening the team by not playing _my_ way" can bite my hairy, wrinkled backside.

[Rackminster]

Interrogator, on 18 December 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

Hell it's why I love to play the game, to be the atlas that steps between the enemy and a mortally wounded ally and takes the punch. Coming out alive is a huge plus.

My favorite moments involve doing just this.

Best instance for me was in the tunnel on Frozen City, I was near the mid-entrance and saw a lone ally dancing furiously in the tunnel. I entered and found that Hunchback doing some fancy footwork to avoid being killed by a Catapult and Cataphract. I trundled in at top speed in my Atlas and immediately put down the Catapult with a CT alpha, and then got right between the two and blew the Cataphract out of the water with a couple volleys while the Hunchback crawled to safety. Pure win.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Steinar Bergstol, on 18 December 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

and anyone who says "but you're weakening the team by not playing _my_ way" can bite my hairy, wrinkled backside.

hell yes. preach it

also; I like the tactic where everyone on the other team sits in the little pocket to the right of the cave on forest colony so that when you walk through you get murdered. The first time I saw that I got in chat and applauded them.
People on my team were bitching at me for applauding the guys who were killing us but vOv

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 18 December 2012 - 09:33 AM.

[Aegis Kleais]

Interrogator, on 18 December 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

Hell it's why I love to play the game, to be the atlas that steps between the enemy and a mortally wounded ally and takes the punch. Coming out alive is a huge plus.

Just yesterday we had an incident where a teammate was very damaged (38% armor left) and I ran in front of him with a near pristine Cataphract. The enemy (6xSRM6 boat killed me in 1 shot) but as luck had it, that was his last salvo.

With the guys I roll with, it's normal to tell the team you overheated, because many times, we will position ourselves as mobile body armor temporarily until you get back up if we can. When overheated, getting headshot or letting someone get a full alpha on opened hardpoints can be a quick death.

[Arclight]

Something I will say about lack of skill in brawling though: all too often I see half my team chasing a 'Mech. And I do mean that as them following him around in a conga line, letting him turn and twist to spread damage effectively, dragging out the engagement tenfold and causing friendly fire in the team.

If a friendly engages an enemy, break off and get a different angle. Also, you don't have to run circles around everything all the time. I've seen 4-5 friendlies circling the last remaining, legged enemy, all the while banging into each other and causing/taking friendly fire. It is okay to stop sometimes, especially if you're in no danger (target is engaging a friend, no other enemies on scope); you can aim more accurately and put the poor blighter out of his misery, like your friends should have done 10-30secs ago. You don't have to go full-throttle at the start of the match and keep it there untill it ends.

[Karl Split]

I suspect those people who diss brawling are the ones unfortunate enought to meet us in our hunchbacks and cataphracts at close range tbh

[I WildCard I]

Been a brawler since day 1. Not to say that I dont change variants every once in a while to keep it fresh. Being good at brawling is the most difficult "role" in this game. Being on the front line requires good; positioning, focus firing, and proper manuevering.
Get over confident in one of these areas and be focused by any solid group. Anyone who says that brawling is amateur hour obviously isnt doing it right.

[Joseph Mallan]

Interrogator, on 18 December 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

I consider it a huge win when I go toe to toe with multiple people and survive the match.

It's just the fact that I put together a mech that no only let me out-pilot the enemy, also trashed their mech.

Hell it's why I love to play the game, to be the atlas that steps between the enemy and a mortally wounded ally and takes the punch. Coming out alive is a huge plus.

Killed two Atlas and a Hunchie before my D-DC got cored, the other day. Fun game. Close battle

[Mercules]

Kaijin, on 18 December 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

...OR some guy whose mech is fitted entirely with short-range weaponry doesn't like to get shot outside his weapon range. Two sides of that coin.

So in the end we are saying mechs should have a mix of weapon ranges?

[Kobold]

Short range weaponry has a huge advantage in this game because of the weight to damage ratio. The game was intentionally designed so that you couldn't easily get quick long range kills, because they wanted fights to last longer.

Longer fights = more chances to get close with the enemy.

More chances to get close with the enemy = more dominance by the short range weaponry.

[Mercules]

Kobold, on 18 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

Short range weaponry has a huge advantage in this game because of the weight to damage ratio. The game was intentionally designed so that you couldn't easily get quick long range kills, because they wanted fights to last longer.

Longer fights = more chances to get close with the enemy.

More chances to get close with the enemy = more dominance by the short range weaponry.

Most TT mechs carry a variety of weapons for a reason. Here we look at an LRM20 on a "brawler" Atlas and swap it out for another SRM6 because "It's a brawler!" In TT(and some people here) the LRM20 would be a great weapon to soften up mechs you closed in on. Once you were closer you would switch over to weapons more favored in "brawling" but it gave you something to do while closing.

[Kommisar]

High. My name is Kommisar and I am a Brawler. Mind you, my ideal brawl range is about 300m... but I digress.

It's a different skills set. And, to be a good brawler, it IS a skill set. This reminds me of all the 16 year old basement "martial arts experts" I've met over the years. Telling me that, for example, the Katana was the ultimate melee weapon and kendo the ultimate technique over all others. Because, yea, you know, a kid living with his parents is the go to guy for opinions on sword fighting.



I'll be honest, right now the game does favor brawler builds and pilots to an extent. The maps are on the small side. And ECM limits the use of LRMs unless you have a solid team supporting them. There are no Area Effect weapons that would discourage tight groupings. It doesn't mean that snipers, support or other tactics can't and don't work; just that the game, as it stands now, does not have many draw backs against a brawler. This will change as the game develops.

OH, and there are instances where running up and hugging a mech is a great tactical move and not just dumb play! If the enemy mech has mostly PPCs or LRMs... go hug him. If you are taking lots of fire from multiple mechs, go get in close with one and make their sight picture more complicated. I've actually had enemy mechs save my bacon this way by crippling or destroying their friend with FF in their haste to kill me.

[Bobfrombobtown]

Well, let's see...
First it was "no skill LRMs."
Then it was "no skill SSRMs"
I think I even recall a time when there was "no skill Gauss cats!"
Basically, if any given tactic or build kills a bunch of people they go and cry about it. Don't worry, after today's patch it'll be "OP Stalkers!" And maybe a bit of "OP TAG/LRMs!"

[Bad Karma 308]

In military terminology another name for the "brawler" would be "shock troop". Throughout history the shock troop has been a highly mobile unit that is able to penetrate enemy defenses in an effort to break up formations and tactics, This often results in tying up a much larger force that could be more effectively used elsewhere, which in military terms would be to fix and or hold the enemy. Sun Tzu wrote heavily about the effectiveness of employing shock troops on the battlefield.

If one or two "brawlers" can get in and amongst an enemy lance it usually forces them to drop their plan and instead have to deal with the brawler. Militarily you've now effectively negated that lance until they destroy the brawler or he withdraws. That lance being tied up buys your own team time to effectively maneuver or employ your own tactics.

The downside to shock troops is that they have traditionally been considered relatively expendable by their commanders. The Brawler should be seen as a relative worthwhile sacrifice to the larger strategic objective. it is just that in 8v8 the loss is harder to accept then if you had a larger force to work with.

Edited by Bad Karma 308, 18 December 2012 - 10:05 AM.

[Roland]

Here's the answer:
There are lots of folks who aren't really good pilots. That is, they lack the reflexes and situational awareness to effectively compete in close range combat, which requires significantly more spacial awareness.

Thus, those folks find themselves in a bad place, once the combat gets heated and "in your face". They tend to get beaten by folks who have better reflexes than they do, which they associate with a younger crowd of gamers who play games like Call of Duty.

The reality is, if you get forced into close combat and lose, it's not just because you are bad at brawling. It's because you are bad at tactics as well. Contrary to the belief of some, ECM doesn't actually make mechs invincible or invisible. You can still effectively control range if you have an idea of what you're doing.

Short version:
On the internet, everything that I use is awesome and leet, and everything that kills me is n00b.

[I WildCard I]

Roland, on 18 December 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

Here's the answer:
There are lots of folks who aren't really good pilots. That is, they lack the reflexes and situational awareness to effectively compete in close range combat, which requires significantly more spacial awareness.

Thus, those folks find themselves in a bad place, once the combat gets heated and "in your face". They tend to get beaten by folks who have better reflexes than they do, which they associate with a younger crowd of gamers who play games like Call of Duty.

The reality is, if you get forced into close combat and lose, it's not just because you are bad at brawling. It's because you are bad at tactics as well. Contrary to the belief of some, ECM doesn't actually make mechs invincible or invisible. You can still effectively control range if you have an idea of what you're doing.

Short version:
On the internet, everything that I use is awesome and leet, and everything that kills me is n00b.

This^

[Arclight]

So when someone says brawlers are skill-less n00bs, you call them a skill-less n00b? Got it, thanks.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kommisar, on 18 December 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

High. My name is Kommisar and I am a Brawler. Mind you, my ideal brawl range is about 300m... but I digress.

It's a different skills set. And, to be a good brawler, it IS a skill set. This reminds me of all the 16 year old basement "martial arts experts" I've met over the years. Telling me that, for example, the Katana was the ultimate melee weapon and kendo the ultimate technique over all others. Because, yea, you know, a kid living with his parents is the go to guy for opinions on sword fighting.

Obviously wrong as the Sai is the ultimate Martial Art Weapon! Dude, I love the Sai!

[OneManWar]

I'm a big fan of mixed weapons as well. My 'brawler' Atlas has 2 large lasers, an AC/20 with 28 rounds of ammo and 3 SRM-4's. I start shooting the enemy at 900M give or take, and when they get to about 400M I start moving in for the kill. I also have a Cataphract that I do well with that sports an ER PPC and an AC/20. Mixed weapons for the win.