402 replies to this topic

[ChickenBonez]

I have been trying out a 5 SRM6, 4 ML, and 1 LL and it seems to be working well. I was able to score my highest kill number in a match (5), and highest damage (1367). I haven't run into many overheating problems as of yet, besides when I get too over zelous in trying to core out an Atlas or two. Really fun mech! I might have to give an LRM set up a shot. There is just so many ways to trick them out.

[Niberung]

Stalker is OP. And i'm going to prove it.

Let's start from afar. Look at the game and its problems. First of all, we have latency issues. Then come the netcode issues. The two above combined make firing projectile weapons a hit-and-miss kind of thing, pardon the pun. Keep that in minds as we go on.
Now let's look at Stalker and Awesome. These mechs are different in so many ways!
1) Awesome has bigger engine threshold. If this doesn't tell you anything, I wish you good day.
2) All these small half-documented things - like arms and torso twist thresholds. We don't know them - but awesome seems a lot more agile.
3) Awesome has an additional hand actuator that allowes it to move its arms not just up and down (like Stalker), but also left and right.

So What does Awesome have? It can go faster than Stalker, it has more freedom in moving its arms which immensely improves its tracking capabilities, it is more agile overall. But who cares about agility now? Now it's all about firepower. It's all about delivering the damage in most effective and lag-proof way. It's about brawling. It's about shutting down lag-shielded lights. And, boy, does Stalker excel in this kind of thing.

I presend you my very own build for Stalker STK-5M, "The Rapetrain".
XL300.
4xSRM6+Artemis (LA, LT, RT, RA)+8t ammo (no rearm cost, remember?). You can get 5xSRM6 at the cost of 1 heatsink and 3 tonns of ammo, but I do not recommend it - the second launcher in LT is bugged now.
3xLarge Lasers (LA, CT, RA).
Max armour everywhere except legs (about 3/4 on each).
DHS.

Oh, yeah, baby. 87 damage alpha strike. Oneshots stupid lights and cripples the legs (SRMs have splash) of the smart ones. And then oneshots them too. Kills pretty much anything in 5-10 seconds if left to its own devices. Can take extreme punishment because it's really dfficult to constantly damage one particular location of this mech.
You got a lag-shield? STK-5M don't care! It has Artemis SRMs with no rearm cost. You got 80 pts of armour? STK-5M don't give a **** - he strips your armour in one second and good-bye goes internal structure 3 seconds later. STK-5M eats Atlai for breakfast, lunch and dinner. It is the ultimate brawler of MWO. It is insanely overpowered. Try it out.


tl;dr: Bring back repair\rearm costs. Without them Stalker is broken as ****.

[Krivvan]

As others have mentioned, although the Stalker is very strong, its main weakness is its torso twist, or lack thereof. It is an absolute beast when directly facing an enemy and can go toe to toe against multiple Atlases in front of it. It's pitiful range of torso twist, however, means that its in trouble when enemies are flanking it or its up against 1 or 2 faster mechs. As a Jenner, it's even easier to stay behind a Stalker than it is to stay behind an Atlas.

Quote

2) All these small half-documented things - like arms and torso twist thresholds. We don't know them - but awesome seems a lot more agile.

Check the mech data files in the objects pak file. Actually here, I did it for you:

--------------------------------------------------------------
STALKER:

MaxMovementSpeed="16.2"
TorsoTurnSpeedYaw="20"
TorsoTurnSpeedPitch="11.25"
ArmTurnSpeedYaw="45"
ArmTurnSpeedPitch="45"

TurnLerpLowRate="0.2"
TurnLerpMidRate="0.15"
TurnLerpHighRate="0.1333"
AccelLerpLowRate="0.1875"
AccelLerpMidRate="0.0425"
AccelLerpHighRate="0.025"
DecelLerpLowRate="0.15"
DecelLerpMidRate="22.5"
DecelLerpHighRate="22.5"

ReverseSpeedMultiplier="0.666"

MaxTorsoAngleYaw="60"
MaxTorsoAnglePitch="20"

MaxArmRotationYaw="0"
MaxArmRotationPitch="30"

TurnLerpLowSpeed="0"
TurnLerpMidSpeed="0.666"
TurnLerpHighSpeed="1.0"
DecelLerpLowSpeed="0"
DecelLerpMidSpeed="0.666"
DecelLerpHighSpeed="1.0"
AccelLerpLowSpeed="0"
AccelLerpMidSpeed="0.666"
AccelLerpHighSpeed="1.0"

MaxFreeLookYaw="55"
MaxFreeLookPitch="40"

--------------------------------------------------------------
AWESOME:

MaxMovementSpeed="16.2"
TorsoTurnSpeedYaw="20"
TorsoTurnSpeedPitch="11.25"
ArmTurnSpeedYaw="45"
ArmTurnSpeedPitch="45"

TurnLerpLowRate="0.2"
TurnLerpMidRate="0.15"
TurnLerpHighRate="0.1333"
AccelLerpLowRate="0.1875"
AccelLerpMidRate="0.0425"
AccelLerpHighRate="0.025"
DecelLerpLowRate="0.15"
DecelLerpMidRate="22.5"
DecelLerpHighRate="22.5"

ReverseSpeedMultiplier="0.666"

MaxTorsoAngleYaw="90"
MaxTorsoAnglePitch="20"

MaxArmRotationYaw="40"
MaxArmRotationPitch="30"

TurnLerpLowSpeed="0"
TurnLerpMidSpeed="0.666"
TurnLerpHighSpeed="1.0"
DecelLerpLowSpeed="0"
DecelLerpMidSpeed="0.666"
DecelLerpHighSpeed="1.0"
AccelLerpLowSpeed="0"
AccelLerpMidSpeed="0.666"
AccelLerpHighSpeed="1.0"

MaxFreeLookYaw="60"
MaxFreeLookPitch="40"

--------------------------------------------------------------

Edited by Krivvan, 19 December 2012 - 04:36 AM.

[QuantumButler]

Stalker is one of the only mechs in game that can do proper bracket firing of weapons, the massive amount of weapon hardpoints mean you can effectively carry one full set of long range and one full set of short range weapons and not suffer too much from reduced firepower.

of course, the obvious massive alpha strike srm "facehugger" stalkers are devastating if they get in close, but I'm personally running a "support" one right now with dual AMS, 2 ppcs, 4 ssrms, and 4 smllas, has enough dubs to fire both ppcs about 6 times before overheating, and enough to sink all the heat from short range weapons too, but if you combine the weapon sets you'll overheat fast.

Obviously it works best partnered with a ECM DDC so you can maintain locks with your ssrms, it's a great Atlas buddy in general, since it can chase lights and fast mediums off quickly with the ssrms and can spam ppcs at whatever the atlas is shooting at range.

[Mr 144]

Being the Crotchety old man here, but if my Cataphracts are gonna have gimped 20 degree arms for nothing more than a graphical design error, then the Stalker can have gimpy Torso Twist....Fix the phract proper...then I'll talk stalker

Mr 144

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

"Stalker first impressions"

Ugly mech on all points. From the cockpit to the feets. Stupid animations, slow and clumsy, but good amored, takes a lot of damage. Have seen some evil configs out there, but its always funny, when they die, cause they always hit the ground with their nose!

[Niberung]

Krivvan, on 19 December 2012 - 04:31 AM, said:

As others have mentioned, although the Stalker is very strong, its main weakness is its torso twist, or lack thereof. It is an absolute beast when directly facing an enemy and can go toe to toe against multiple Atlases in front of it. It's pitiful range of torso twist, however, means that its in trouble when enemies are flanking it or its up against 1 or 2 faster mechs. As a Jenner, it's even easier to stay behind a Stalker than it is to stay behind an Atlas.



Check the mech data files in the objects pak file. Actually here, I did it for you:

--------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks. That only proves my point - Awesome has qualities that are not useful for assault mechs ATM.

[random51]

I don't understand why people would expect two different mechs to perform equally well in every situation. If they do then the only differences are cosmetic, in other words: what would be the point?

The Awesome gains in mobility/flexibility what it lacks in other areas.

If we had larger maps, more verticality, and a variety of objectives the Awesome would have plenty of scenarios in which it was a better choice than either an Atlas or a Stalker. We don't have that now, though, so the most common engagements are straight up brawls or two lines firing at each other. One of those favors the Atlas, the other favors the Stalker.

Long story short, stop complaining about mech balance and start complaining about tiny maps and very shallow combat.

Edited by random51, 19 December 2012 - 04:47 AM.

[Adridos]

I think it's fair considering the firepower that thing has.

Actually, the most annoying mechs we know o have this kind of torso twist lore-wise, while they can turn 260° (exxagaration, but you get the point) in the game, namely Catapult and Jenner.

[Noth]

Adridos, on 19 December 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

I think it's fair considering the firepower that thing has.

I agree with this. The amount of firepower it can bring to bear, the torso twist limit is important.

[Krivvan]

Niberung, on 19 December 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

Thanks. That only proves my point - Awesome has qualities that are not useful for assault mechs ATM.

Having arm movement in all directions is extremely useful for assault mechs. I know this very well because I'm much more afraid of fighting an Awesome as a Jenner than I am of fighting a Stalker at the moment.

[Darzok]

I am 100% ok with it since other wise it would make the Awesome 100% useless and the Stalker is close enough to making that happen.

The Awesome only has the arm and torso twisting over the stalker in every other way its all most all ways a better choice to pick the Stalker.

[Adridos]

Kenach, on 19 December 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

Now i'm gonna try to understand which house uses it the most and who created it on sarna.net.

Marik, the purple guys, are the ones you're looking for.

Stalker is a general IS mech and every house has them.

[Odanan]

Kenach, on 19 December 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

I immediately fell in love with this giant death machine

Even though I have no experience in past mech games, I can definitely say that the stalker is officially my all-time favorite battlemech Now i'm gonna try to understand which house uses it the most and who created it on sarna.net (also i hope they make a hero stalker in MWO ... i would insta-buy with real money )

They are used by everyone: it is the most common assault mech in the universe.

Primary users: Marik (Free Worlds League), followed by Liao (Capellan Confederation) and Steiner (Lyran Alliance).

[Joseph Mallan]

Ursh, on 18 December 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

It's also a matter of knowing that most of the stalkers you encounter have no xp in them, so you're at a tactical advantage to pick on one.

Really? My Stalkers are all mastered already! Something to do with only using 4 other Mechs for the month.

[Niberung]

Krivvan, on 19 December 2012 - 04:52 AM, said:

Having arm movement in all directions is extremely useful for assault mechs. I know this very well because I'm much more afraid of fighting an Awesome as a Jenner than I am of fighting a Stalker at the moment.

No. Being able to strip the front of your enemy of armour in three alphastrikes is more useful than "arm movement".

And I am more afraid of other Stalkers regardless of the mech I'm currently piloting. They are so very hard to take down. With Atlas or Awesome it's almost always simple: destroy right torso and you can go about your business - your allies will make short work of the cripple you left behind. Stalkers do not stop being useful after losing a side torso ('sides, how do you destroy a side torso on a Stalker?). They just keep soaking up the damage while giving back a lot better than they get.

[QuantumButler]

Darzok, on 19 December 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

I am 100% ok with it since other wise it would make the Awesome 100% useless and the Stalker is close enough to making that happen.

The Awesome only has the arm and torso twisting over the stalker in every other way its all most all ways a better choice to pick the Stalker.

The Awesome [except 9M] already was 100% useless, by virtue of not being an Atlas.

[Fury9er]

I bought one today, a basic 3F because it reminds me of this:



That track is the Stalkers theme music!

The fluff details that the Stalker used to come with a special fire control computer to help manage the heat that its hilarious number of weapons would generate - chain fire helps

[Khobai]

Quote

For now. As new mechs are introduced, more weapon hardpoints will become more common. Should all these mechs also have limited torso twist rates?

They should have drawbacks certainly. Doesn't have to be torso twist rate. Could be something else. The point is if the new mechs dont have drawbacks and are just outright better than the old mechs then why use the old mechs?

Quote

Yeah, stalker kinda makes all the other assaults look very undergunned. They need to seriously revise the hardpoints for all other big mechs. A dinky jenner has about the same firepower as an atlas.

Pretty much. But that has more to do with Atlases being unable to use bigger weapons. Atlases should be able to have 3-4 large lasers while a Jenner has 6 smalls or mediums. The problem is Atlases cant handle the heat because they only get lame 1.4sinks which arnt worth the 3 crits they take up.

Edited by Khobai, 19 December 2012 - 05:09 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 18 December 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

uh its got 10 weapon hardpoints. half of which are arm mounted. so yeah its torso twist should be limited.

You mean it should be just as limited as say a Catapult that has 3-4 SRMs(6-8 weapons) per Arm? Yeah I totally agree with you, Nurf the Stalker to have the same turn range as a Catapult Please!