160 replies to this topic

[hammerreborn]

Just bought a raven. guess it's time to jump on the fotm build, because there is no reason to play a Jenner anymore when its been completely neutered.

Edit: removed the quote

Edited by hammerreborn, 20 December 2012 - 05:44 PM.

[Dirus Nigh]

Welp. I just played a few rounds with my jenner. I was not sure if I was correct with what I posted so I had to try it out.

I could not get into the tunnel cliff in frozen city, nor jump over a building half again as tall as my mech.

I was wrong they suck.

Oh and that hammer guy quoted me or some thing. Good for him and his slightly henny penny post.

[Ryvucz]

I enjoy watching people try to jump away with one jump jet equipped.

Pretty funny to watch.

[Haitchpeasauce]

Ryvucz, on 20 December 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

I enjoy watching people try to jump away with one jump jet equipped.

Pretty funny to watch.

McFly, you bojo. Those hover-jets don't work on water.

[hammerreborn]

User demoned posted a video of the new JJs in action

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1642404

My favorite part is how he barely leaves the ground when running towards the dropship.

And remember, Paul has said the height is correct, just not the arc, so this is what we can expect to jump in the future ...basically nothing.

He is running with 4 JJs

[Melcyna]

hammerreborn, on 20 December 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

Well thats not hard at all. The old way was superior because you could actually jump over things, not just into them and hope you can hump your way over the hill.

This JJ change has killed Jenners, there is little to no reason to use them over the Raven. ECM and roughly the same armament...or...the new JJs that are nearly twice the tonnage and can't even clear retaining walls let alone allow you to escape chasers in the outside Ravine in Frozen City by jumping up the cliffside.

And God. The way JJs are now the Spider is DoA. Completely unarmed compared to a raven and won't even be able to clear a building with jumps. Ya, I'll pass.

Understandable, now comes the tricky part...

Should the JJ capable mech be reaching these heights? ie: should the light mech be capable of crossing the ravine wall for example like you mentioned on demand, for example from right underneath it?

If the JJ impulse is significantly buffed (personally this is the part i have problem with the current JJ, not so much the maximum height) and allows you to reach the maximum height reachable currently MUCH more quickly would that be sufficient JJ performance? what if it allows you to clear say most obstacles that are not quite THAT ravine high but currently unreachable with JJ will that be sufficient to consider as the balance for the JJ? What if we can do so but need some running distance? How much running distance would be sufficient to consider it a balance?

I partially agree in that the height limit seems to be fairly too low (though the ultra low impulse is the clearer problem right now), on the other hand i am not exactly keen on the idea of the JJ mech just rocketing straight upwards like a literal rocket in the previous JJ iteration with no running distance to reach building roofs since anything non-accessible without JJ should be something that requires a deliberate planning to reach, instead of ppl treating JJ like a panic button to escape.

Edited by Melcyna, 20 December 2012 - 11:40 PM.

[TechKiller]

In my opinion in current patch JJ became very poor. It's really became useless thing. I set up 4 JJ on Jenner and it's doesn't work as it was before this patch. Now I can't use JJ for jumping tactics to win and scouting because it's doesn't work!
Now JJ only uses additional slots and takes additional weight.
I don't install JJ into mehs more.
It must be fixed.

[Murrrks]

Jump jets need a buff - right now no point in using them.

[hammerreborn]

Melcyna, on 20 December 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

Understandable, now comes the tricky part...

Should the JJ capable mech be reaching these heights? ie: should the light mech be capable of crossing the ravine wall for example like you mentioned on demand, for example from right underneath it?

If the JJ impulse is significantly buffed (personally this is the part i have problem with the current JJ, not so much the maximum height) and allows you to reach the maximum height reachable currently MUCH more quickly would that be sufficient JJ performance? what if it allows you to clear say most obstacles that are not quite THAT ravine high but currently unreachable with JJ will that be sufficient to consider as the balance for the JJ? What if we can do so but need some running distance? How much running distance would be sufficient to consider it a balance?

I partially agree in that the height limit seems to be fairly too low (though the ultra low impulse is the clearer problem right now), on the other hand i am not exactly keen on the idea of the JJ mech just rocketing straight upwards like a literal rocket in the previous JJ iteration with no running distance to reach building roofs since anything non-accessible without JJ should be something that requires a deliberate planning to reach, instead of ppl treating JJ like a panic button to escape.

Yes they should? The sacrifice in tonnage is gained in mobility and the ability to escape the ravine in river city, or frozen city. If they were still one jj then I would agree that you get too much for two little. But 2.5 tons for jets that can barely clear the dropship without serious humping is way on the opposite end of the spectrum. To barely clear small rocks in a single bound we

A) make ourselves far more vulnerable to LRM fire, as we are no longer able to jump over buildings to use as cover
become the only scout detectable by radar, limiting our ability to scout greatly alone
C) sacrifice nearly double the tonnage of our two light counterparts that don't have to deal with a or b
D) have the same or weaker armament or slower speed when compared to the raven due to the 1 ton extra spent, the gap even widens further if you use an ams to counter A, setting you back 5 tons compared to 1.5 ton for a raven, which gets all the lovely benefits of ECM.
E) nearly inability to use streaks


So ya. I think when we sacrifice being a faster, more armed and less vulnerable ravens to be able to jump jumping should be worth a damn. I feel bad for the Spider. Two medium lasers for JJs in their current state vs ECM raven. HA, like that's a damn choice

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

I'm all for a compromise. They restore the power of the old jump jets, but make it so you have to have 4-5 to get anything close to full air. And you can have 1-2 for just regular course adjusting and air-turns.

But really, the way they are now, is useless to me. Maybe it's useful to people who only used it for scooting around, but I could get higher air even in the old Mechwarrior game in a Jenner. This is a computer game, not a table top game. I really respect the attention to detail in most aspects, but this is affecting the fun. You think lights are overpowered? Bring back tripping, tweak jump jets, but don't kneecap them.

Yes this is a major bummer.

[GioAvanti]

I WildCard I, on 18 December 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

2 Jumpjets should be sufficent to achieve pre patch jump levels. Jump jets require skill to use effectively during a firefight. If what im reading here about the scaling is true theyve nerfed them into nothingness. Going to be ridiculous if you have to carry 5 jumpjets to be able to attain ALMOST previous height.

No it shouldn't.... 2 JJ's is diddly squat.

[Garagano]

What are jumpjets good for, if you can not JUMP with them?

I am not familiar with the original purpose of JJs in the TT. So, please could anyone please explain the purpose and "proper usage" of JJs, as the current hight is supposed to be "fully functional and working as intended" (besides the planed initial rising speed correction).

The current JJ high allow even the light mechs hardlyto jump over a building and it castrated the Jenner into a dispensable pawn.
In the current game state, a NON-ECM light mech is a dumb thing to use. Since ECM i hardly see any Jenner any more. Almost only ECM CMD and RVN are on the battlefield. And the JJ nerf, mad this worse!
There is no reason for using a Jenner. QQ

Edited by Garagano, 21 December 2012 - 04:32 AM.

[Asha Catari]

jump jets are useless now IMHO: vertical thrust is far too low

[Morang]

Yes, overnerfed they are. I removed them from my my builds until next rebalance.

[o0Marduk0o]

chiXnhawk, on 18 December 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

This game is just so anti jump sniping. The Gauss is nerfed to suck. JJ's now are useless and before the most anticipated mech in the Highlander. All mechs hit boxes change when your in the air so hitting a mech while your airborn is more luck then anything.

Ohhh, I pity you.

[Adridos]

Garagano, on 21 December 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

I am not familiar with the original purpose of JJs in the TT. So, please could anyone please explain the purpose and "proper usage" of JJs, as the current hight is supposed to be "fully functional and working as intended" (besides the planed initial rising speed correction).

In TT, it gives you basically what I'd call a second engine.

[Col Forbin]

So I have to give up 2 tons on my Jenner to put 4 more JJ on, and it is terrible! Why wouldn't I be getting the same kind of performance as before? I applaud them fixing the JJ exploit, but damn. They are absolutely terrible now. I basically have to play river city like any other mech now, because I'm not able to jump onto squat.

On a side note.... how the hell can 5 1/2 ton jump jets give a Cat the same amount of lift as a Jenner? Jenner 35tons, Cat 65tons. I'm not sure what canon has to say, but simple physics dictates that is stupid. A cat should require almost twice as many JJ.

[Nash]

Col Forbin, on 21 December 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

So I have to give up 2 tons on my Jenner to put 4 more JJ on, and it is terrible! Why wouldn't I be getting the same kind of performance as before? I applaud them fixing the JJ exploit, but damn. They are absolutely terrible now. I basically have to play river city like any other mech now, because I'm not able to jump onto squat.

On a side note.... how the hell can 5 1/2 ton jump jets give a Cat the same amount of lift as a Jenner? Jenner 35tons, Cat 65tons. I'm not sure what canon has to say, but simple physics dictates that is stupid. A cat should require almost twice as many JJ.

the JJ of a Cat are not only 0,5t per JJ but 1 t per JJ...that's why...

[Mawai]

Interesting ... almost everyone agrees that Jump Jets were broken in the last patch.I don't recall seeing any patch notes regarding a nerf to jump jet performance so presumably the change was unintentional.

I don't know how their internal testers can miss this sort of thing. A full set of jump jets should have had at least the same performance as a single jump jet pre-patch and they do not.

In addition, as was pointed out, the jump jet range is something like 30m (one hex) per some number of jump jets but if you look at the Mechlab where it displays jump jet range ... the maximum jump jet range for a Jenner is 45m and for the Catapult is 41m ... a single jump jet on a Jenner shows a 9m range and on a Catapult it is 10m. Clearly this UI element is either broken or the overall jump jet range is broken.

[Col Forbin]

Nash, on 21 December 2012 - 06:33 AM, said:

the JJ of a Cat are not only 0,5t per JJ but 1 t per JJ...that's why...

Ahhh, that's good to know. Sorry, never piloted a Cat, cause I think they're fugly.