160 replies to this topic

[Cest7]

5JJs should give more vertical trajectory. Its pretty lame atm

[Marineballer]

I have 2 JJ in my Catapult and i'm not able to jump and small buildings in Frozen City.
I think there will be a change in gameplay.
Of my point of view it seems that you need 3-5 JJ to be effective. So you will loose more tonnage for weapons. That will decrease a advantage of the catapult (as supporter).

[Marcus Tanner]

5 Jump Jets should not be getting pre-patch level effectiveness on Jenners.

Jenners are not good at using jump jets, particularly the up-engined ones we see in MWO. For a Jenner with a 210 engine to get pre-patch jump effectiveness (max for its engine), it would need 8 jump jets.

So you're at about half of where you were, and that's how it's supposed to be (at least as an internal consistency matter).

The Spider would be able to jump like a pre-patch Jenner, as it can equip 8 jump jets.

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Having said all that, the 4 jump jets on a Catapult should be able to manage the rise on the way onto the big seaside building in River City from the water. I think jump jets should be improved to that point.

Edited by Marcus Tanner, 19 December 2012 - 04:33 AM.

[Crimson Fenris]

clearly need a fix to work accordingly to the mech weight... actually, there is absolutely no reason a 4JJ-35t Jenner could only jump 36 meters, and at the same time the same 4JJ-65t Catapult can jump 40... no sense at all.

Actually, JJ seems broken and got no benefit at all. It's much harder to gain vertical amplitude with 4/5 JJ in a Jenner than before with only one...
If they keep that in current state, there is no way a Spider could even reach a 240 meters jump with its 8 JJ (half of that at best, according to current implementation).

[Kunae]

Marcus Tanner, on 19 December 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

5 Jump Jets should not be getting pre-patch level effectiveness on Jenners.

Jenners are not good at using jump jets, particularly the up-engined ones we see in MWO. For a Jenner with a 210 engine to get pre-patch jump effectiveness (max for its engine), it would need 8 jump jets.

So you're at about half of where you were, and that's how it's supposed to be (at least as an internal consistency matter).

The Spider would be able to jump like a pre-patch Jenner, as it can equip 8 jump jets.

---

Having said all that, the 4 jump jets on a Catapult should be able to manage the rise on the way onto the big seaside building in River City from the water. I think jump jets should be improved to that point.

Wow. Did it hurt, terribly much, when you pulled that all out of your butt?

If you are ignorant on a topic, you generally should not comment on it. JJ's in the current implementation are stupid. PGI needs to hotfix back a JJ-version to where they were Monday, then figure out how to do scalable JJ's properly, before they put it back in.

[UPnADAM]

Super glad they are making the JJ work as "intended" I do however think they were over nerfed. Maybe increase each JJ's efficiency by 15-20%.

[JediMastaDJ]

It seems that they screwed up the trajectory arc of the JJs. It's a lot shallower than it should be. I have 2 on my Jenner and they can't get me onto the smallest buildings unless I have a 300m head start. And by then, I'm pretty much out of fuel anyways. *sigh* I looked forward to returning to my Jenner. Oh well. Next patch.

[DocBach]

Each jump jet is supposed to give you a 30 meter jump ability forward or laterally or 15 meters vertically according to the board game rule description.

[ICEFANG13]

Well they have "nerfed" the ability to turn in midair without JJ's, so right now, carrying one, just so you can continue to maneuver over rough terrain is important ironically.

This is true for Raven-3L etc right? Because the Jenner-D hits a moderate edge and suddenly its stuck in its trajectory.

[Pando]

I really like the JJ changes. I'm sick of a Jenner having 1 ton of JJ and being able to FLY circles around me. Now, those Jenner pilots are sacrificing firepower for mobility which is how it SHOULD BE.

Great patch.

[DirePhoenix]

Crimson Fenris, on 19 December 2012 - 04:34 AM, said:

clearly need a fix to work accordingly to the mech weight... actually, there is absolutely no reason a 4JJ-35t Jenner could only jump 36 meters, and at the same time the same 4JJ-65t Catapult can jump 40... no sense at all.

What? I took my 4 JJ CPLT-C1 120m (measured out with my crosshair rangefinder). I think maybe your expectations of 120m is much more than what it is in game scale.

[Rowin]

I like the new system as you sacrifice firepower for mobility.

1. The jump trajectory could use slight tweaking for more arch

2. More power is needed, as we are giving up a lot of tonnage for the ability and the reward seems under powered.

As a player base I don't think were looking to be superman flying across the map, but let us have the ability to jump out of theta in frozen city.

[Kunae]

Pando, on 19 December 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

I really like the JJ changes. I'm sick of a Jenner having 1 ton of JJ and being able to FLY circles around me. Now, those Jenner pilots are sacrificing firepower for mobility which is how it SHOULD BE.

Great patch.

Another person spewing rhetoric rather than knowing anything.

This isn't about having to have 5 JJ's on a Jenner. It is about that even if you have 5 JJ's, on a Jenner, their performance is still beyond horrid.

Take your irrational Jenner-hate to the general forums, where it's embraced.

[Aegis Kleais]

bensphynx, on 18 December 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Jump jets seem very poor now; I thought they were about right last patch, when the number you had affected the jump distance/height, but they now seem very poor. It is hard to gain the height to jump small cliffs now, or on top of boxes. My inclination would be to just totally remove them now, to save the fitting space.

From a tabletop game point of view, one is supposed to be able to jump 30m (one hex) per jump jet fitted. I think our current implementation is way way below that now; obviously it is ok to be different, but I'm not convinced that the current version is fun, either.

I, sadly, removed all 4 off my CTF-3D due to the lack of power they have now.

In it's stead I went from a 300XL to 340XL, added AMS +1 and some armor.... but I still miss the mobility.

[Joseph Mallan]

I WildCard I, on 18 December 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

2 Jumpjets should be sufficent to achieve pre patch jump levels. Jump jets require skill to use effectively during a firefight. If what im reading here about the scaling is true theyve nerfed them into nothingness. Going to be ridiculous if you have to carry 5 jumpjets to be able to attain ALMOST previous height.

2 Jets give 60m of jump so you should be able to jump up about that high also.

Kunae, on 19 December 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Another person spewing rhetoric rather than knowing anything.

This isn't about having to have 5 JJ's on a Jenner. It is about that even if you have 5 JJ's, on a Jenner, their performance is still beyond horrid.

Take your irrational Jenner-hate to the general forums, where it's embraced.

5 JJx 30 meters= 150 Meters of Jump... It's really not a very long jump.

[Kunae]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 December 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

5 JJx 30 meters= 150 Meters of Jump... It's really not a very long jump.

It's not about the length. Not sure where you got that from.

This discussion is about height, and has been from the start.

[Joseph Mallan]

Length and height were primarily the same. Sorta. Ok My memory is a touch rusty but each JJ gave a Mech the ability to Jump up one level (ie half a Mech height) So a Jenner with 7 JJs (standard walk TT) could jump on top of a 7 story tall building(70' up+/-).

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 19 December 2012 - 10:37 AM.

[p4g3m4s7r]

It seems like having forward momentum has a huge effect on how high you jump. This seems really bad both from a physics and gameplay perspective.

Physics: Mechs are really heavy, and even though they shouldn't actually be very dense, the game and lore behave as though they are. Dense objects have higher ballistic coefficients, which means little to no thrust should go towards maintaining forward movement. Thus, whether you're moving forward or not should have absolutely no effect on how high you can go with jumpjets.

Gameplay: For small mechs, jump jets are meant to increase mobility and survivability. If you have to stop to get the intended jump height out of them, you're going to die, which means jump jets aren't useful. For larger mechs, jump jets improve a mechs ability to access better vantage points or simply pop over cover. For the former, you need forward momentum in order to actually get on to that building or ledge. Without the ability to use jump jets with forward momentum, you've affectively halved the value of jump jets for heavy mechs.

The takeaway: forward momentum should in no way whatsoever affect the performance of jump jets.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Ugh you guys really messed up jump jets. The Cataphract - 3d was one of my favorite mechs to play, now it stinks. I had left 2 jump jets on it because I new you guys were gonna patch it soon. Essentially I was expecting half the lift of what we used to have. Now I have like 10% of it. What a joke. My favorite thing to do with it was to hide behind terrain, pop up and get shots off sniping ppl, but now I cant do it even with 4 jump jets. Please fix this issue as one of my favorite things in this game is jump jet mechs.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I believe most of these Mechs come with 4 or 5 JJs installed, so if you want to compare Before (with 1 JJ) to what "they should be now," you have to load 5 JJs.

So, load up 5 JJs and see if it's like how they used to be... if it's worse, then they've been nerfed. If it's the same, then they've experienced no change... etc.