1017 replies to this topic

[parman01]

Post TLDR

Responding to topic name.

OK, bye.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

Enjoy your robot version of Warsong Gulch.

ECM changed the game for the better, and my heart breaks that you could not adapt.

[ltwally]

SPencil, on 30 December 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

ECM did indeed change the game. For better or worse that's more a matter of opinion.

Even after accounting for the fact that the most vocal voices are the complainers, it seems like the vast majority of folks say worse.

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I use SRMs and lasers almost exclusively, and haven't really noticed that big of a difference. What I've noticed is that people tend to stick close and group up around ECM, MW:O is a game of teamwork, and ECM made not working as a team much deadlier. Of course when working as a team, regardless of ECM, will help bring you through battles.

That's a sign that there's a problem -- when a 1.5 tonne piece of equipment that is only available on 4 out of 44 mechs can have such a vast influence.

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ECM isn't the problem: it's the people who use it. I think improvements could be made but for now it's good.

I disagree. It does too much. Simply countering/disrupting/negating Artemis, Beagle, Narc and Tag is pretty good for a 1.5 tonne gizmo. Add to that killing sensors/comms, and making LRM & S-SRM useless? Way, way, waaay overpowered.

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And just an FYI, Hawken is much more of a "traditional" modern-shooter. I tried it, and it put me in mind of Call-of-Duty with robots. IMO, it's disappointing.

That's fine. It's not the genre that matters, so much as the implementation.

That, and I'm just plain tired of watching PGI roll out stuff that so clearly needs nerfing. ECM isn't the first by a long shot. It's just the most blatant.

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Can I have your hunchbacks? What engines do they got?

No. I'll watch things, and perhaps resume playing when PGI gets the hint and nerfs ECM into something sane.

And their engines are pretty boring. They're brawlers, so no XL.

[ltwally]

SixStringSamurai, on 30 December 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

It doesn't? I'm confused. Maybe words mean different things when they're written on Sarna:

http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite

Firstly, Sarna is not cannon; it's not "offiicial." There have been inaccuracies in the past, and so quoting it as a TT source is sometimes not a good idea.

That said, cannon ECM counters/disrupts/negates the following:

• Artemis
  
• Beagle
  
• Narc
  
• C3

The PGI implementation does that, and also:

• kills basic sensors, so you often have no idea who is friend and who is foe
  
• kills missile locks, making you immune to LRM & S-SRM

It's the PGI addons that really wreck things.

[ICEFANG13]

I agree, I'm still wanting to play, for now, a break. ECM makes the game really boring and stale.

[LynxFury]

SPencil, on 30 December 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

What I've noticed is that people tend to stick close and group up around ECM, MW:O is a game of teamwork, and ECM made not working as a team much deadlier. Of course when working as a team, regardless of ECM, will help bring you through battles.

We really shouldn't confuse clustering for survival with team work--they are very very different.

--
I'm personally playing more Planetside 2 than anything else. Its combined arms, has just as much if not even more incentives for teamwork, better maps that run at 60fps etc. If not for my 50 year old reflexes having trouble keeping up with the young'ins I'd be having more fun. MWO, and mech driving is much more suitable for my age and appeals to my lifelong(well it seems that way) love of battle tech (not just mechs), but the ECM driven tactics and stripping out the long and mid game I loved so much has me side lined until the sensor/EW model gets rebalanced.

Edited by LynxFury, 30 December 2012 - 11:59 AM.

[SixstringSamurai]

ltwally, on 30 December 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

Firstly, Sarna is not cannon; it's not "offiicial." There have been inaccuracies in the past, and so quoting it as a TT source is sometimes not a good idea.

That said, cannon ECM counters/disrupts/negates the following:

• Artemis
  
• Beagle
  
• Narc
  
• C3

The PGI implementation does that, and also:

• kills basic sensors, so you often have no idea who is friend and who is foe
  
• kills missile locks, making you immune to LRM & S-SRM

It's the PGI addons that really wreck things.

Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems....

Edited by SixStringSamurai, 30 December 2012 - 10:59 AM.

[Detrimus]

Trolls be trollin'

Considering how Hawken and MWO are completely different games in every way imagineable, I can't understand how one could drive you to the other?

I play both simultaneously BECAUSE they are so unlike one another. Admittedly I play hawken 5% of the time and MWO 95% simply because of how broken Hawken is.

Go ahead and play that game where hackers, abusers and P2W players will go 30/0 in every match they play.

Have fun.

[Ranzear]

SixStringSamurai, on 30 December 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems....

Yeah, then why can it do that past 180m?

[SixstringSamurai]

Ranzear, on 30 December 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Yeah, then why can it do that past 180m?

by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors. You can lock a target outside of 180m it just takes a lot longer for it to be picked up. Then again you could always just use tag.

Edited by SixStringSamurai, 30 December 2012 - 11:10 AM.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

ltwally, on 30 December 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

Even after accounting for the fact that the most vocal voices are the complainers, it seems like the vast majority of folks say worse.

That might be because everyone else is playing the game and not whining about it.

[Araara]

I'm going to have to agree with the op on the this one.

Regardless on whether one adapts to it/ use ECM / doesn't use ECM / does fine against ECM mechs and teams, the man here (or woman?) just gave his feedback about his experience with ECM.

and THIS here is what PGI wants to know about. Sure, if PGI were to ever implement a new gameplay mechanic that's absolutely balanced on both pug games and 8v8 organised games but STILL takes out some of the fun or limits too much, well I'm sorry but it has to be changed somehow or they risk alienating a good chunk of their player base.

Think of it this way, the current implementation of ECM pretty much alienates their most dedicated playerbase, aka the hardcore battletech fans (and it's a relatively big playerbase too, from what I gathered with all the founders program). Generally, when you manage a company, you'd want to keep a foundation as secure as that and build upon it.

[Huovi]

ECM made me to find group that use teamspeak. After that i have seen lots of lrms etc. ECM needs also team work.

[Malavai Fletcher]

ECM drove(not really drove,more hinted that there was a way around ECM blobs) me to PPC's and a long range game........and i love it!

[StalaggtIKE]

SPencil, on 30 December 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

ECM did indeed change the game. For better or worse that's more a matter of opinion.

I use SRMs and lasers almost exclusively, and haven't really noticed that big of a difference. What I've noticed is that people tend to stick close and group up around ECM, MW:O is a game of teamwork, and ECM made not working as a team much deadlier. Of course when working as a team, regardless of ECM, will help bring you through battles.

ECM=teamwork is a fallacy. It's called survival. At the start of match, most look for mech carrying ECM and walk close to him, until they run into the bulk of the enemies. They're simply using ECM as safe passage from LRM. Is that teamwork?

Technically I could run my RVN-3L to middle of map, hide and shutdown, go afk and still provide benefits for my team. ECM still scrambles enemy's signals even when shutdown. Is that teamwork?

No, ECM doesn't make teamwork. ECM is simply carrying a superior piece of technology in which allies take advantage of. If all chassis had access to it, then most would carry it without regards to teammates.

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ECM isn't the problem: it's the people who use it. I think improvements could be made but for now it's good.

This statement is laughable. How do you figure the problem is ECM users? There is nothing to do, the equipment is passive. One could be jamming the enemies without even knowing they're on the other side of a building. The ECCM is a bigger joke; team with more ECM doesn't worry about being jammed. Again I say if all chassis could carry ECM, most players would. It would become a necessary component like 'life support'.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 30 December 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[ICEFANG13]

This is so funny and true,
"Technically I could run my RVN-3L to middle of map, hide and shutdown, go afk and still provide benefits for my team. ECM still scrambles enemy's signals even when shutdown. Is that teamwork?"
I will be using that from time to time.

[ltwally]

SixStringSamurai, on 30 December 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems....

Because you were polite, and seem to want a cannon quote.... From the BMR, page 136:

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The Guardian ECM suite is a broad-spectrum jamming and electronic countermeasure device designed to reduce the effectiveness of enemy long-range scanning and surveillance equipment. The Clans also use an ECM suite with the same capabilities in a lighter and smaller package. A unit can mount only one ECM suite.
An ECM suite has an effect radius of 6 hexes that creates a “bubble” around the carrying unit. The ECM’s disruptive abilities affect all enemy units inside this bubble, as well as any line of sight traced through the bubble. It has no effect on units friendly to the unit carrying the ECM.
Within its effect radius, an ECM suite has the following effects on the following systems. The ECM suite does not affect other scanning and targeting devices, such as TAG and Clan targeting computers.
Active Probes: Active probes cannot penetrate the ECM’s area of effect. The probing unit would notice that it is being jammed.
Artemis IV FCS: ECM blocks the effects of the Artemis IV FCS. Artemis-equipped launchers may be fired as normal missiles through the ECM, but the Missile Hits Table bonus is lost.
Narc Missile Beacon: Missiles equipped to home in on an attached Narc pod lose the Missile Hits Table bonus for that system if they are affected by ECM. The Narc launcher itself is not affected by ECM.
C3 Computer: ECM has the effect of “cutting off” any C3 equipped unit from its network. If a C3 master unit is isolated from the network by being inside the ECM radius, the entire portion of the network “below” it is effectively shot off….

I got tired of typing, and quit halfway through C3.

As you can see, the cannon ECM suite does nothing about basic sensors/comms or LRM / S-SRM locks.

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 30 December 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

That might be because everyone else is playing the game and not whining about it.

I believe I accounted for this factor. But it's nice of you to chime in, even if it is pure flamebait.

[ltwally]

Detrimus, on 30 December 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Trolls be trollin'

Considering how Hawken and MWO are completely different games in every way imagineable, I can't understand how one could drive you to the other?

I play both simultaneously BECAUSE they are so unlike one another. Admittedly I play hawken 5% of the time and MWO 95% simply because of how broken Hawken is.

Go ahead and play that game where hackers, abusers and P2W players will go 30/0 in every match they play.

Have fun.

Allow me to elucidate:

I'm not looking for another BattleTech / MechWarrior game. I just want a video game that's a fun way to pass empty time.

MW:O still has its fun moments. However, too frequently in the past 3+ weeks, I've found myself watching ECM in action, totally controlling the battlefield, and saying "WTF. This is ********. I don't want to play this." and then going off and doing something else.

So, I'll check out Hawken. I don't care if it's Quake III with robots, just as long as its fun.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

ltwally, on 30 December 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

So, I'll check out Hawken. I don't care if it's Quake III with robots, just as long as its fun.

Be sure to come by and let us know when they do something there that you can't adapt to and you quit that one too...

[Thorn Hallis]

Have fun with Hawken.