478 replies to this topic

[Abivard]

A battle changes in nature and slight adjustments need to be made in each drop;

The Movement to contact; Following the fracking atlas! stay in ECM bubble, go his direction of travel at his rate of speed. (unless your a scout)

Contact: this is two types, close and far. Far is most common first contact, this is when sniping for harassment starts, close is instant brawl. Again, go with the group, fire on what the big guys are firing on,Move to support what the big guys are doing.

[Gregore]

neviu, on 19 December 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

Why follow a atlas,,,

I did not have much time to play last night, maybe 8 matches. Out of those 8, 7 had assault mechs in them. Out of those 7 5 of them had multiple assault mechs doing less than 100 damage.
In one match we had 3 assaults, a stalker, a ddc, and an awesome. Together they totalled 49 damage. None of them were disco, two of them were squirreling. Being in an assault does not make you a leader, it does not even make you a competent player.

TLDR: Don't follow someone just because of the mech they pilot. Mech class does not denote skill or ability.

[Void Angel]

You seem to feel that you have raised some kind of objection. Odd...

As I pointed out before, even if the Atlas sucks, he's still going to soak up enemy fire before he immolates himself in a pyre of burning shame. Since you don't know the skill levels of the random strangers who happened to drop with you, you can't use skill as a standard of who to follow - or not follow. You just can't tell about the pilot by looking at his 'mech. What you CAN tell is what kind of 'mech he has, and therefore what range of capabilities to expect from them. All Atlases are big and tough - they spend more tonnage on internal structure than most lights spend on armor. As the biggest 'mech in the game, you also expect them to have a lot of firepower, thus making them a threat, and thus making them a target.

You don't follow the Atlas because he's the best pilot; you follow him because no one else can soak up the damage that he can, and because his firepower and toughness together tend to punish people for ignoring him.
I wrote this guide in order to establish a good, very basic, body of good tactical practices for uncoordinated PuGs. Think of it like this:

• The team (other than the scouts) needs to stay generally together in order to make the most of their firepower.
  
• The Atlas can both draw fire and take punishment to a extent unmatched by any other chassis.
  
• The Atlas is also a lot of your total combat power in terms of simple tonnage^*
  
• This means that if you go one way and the Atlas goes the other, you're more vulnerable than he is.
  
• so, you have to Follow the Fracking Atlas.

Yeah, he could be wrong. He could run around like he's playing pee-wee soccer (everyone just wants to kick the ball.) He could set the Guiness Record for "Shortest combat longevity of a 100 ton war machine." But if he's gonna suck, he's gonna do it no matter who you follow - at least if you follow him, you can make use of his stupidity noble sacrifice and get some benefit from him regardless.

^{_*: On a team with all Atlases, an Atlas is 12.5% of your total combat weight. Even if rest of the team averages as high as 65 tons, that Atlas is still going to be 18% of your total weight.}

[shellashock]

ahh, I remember you void angel. I am almost positive that you were the one telling me "to come back and fight coward!", when I tried to flank with an atlas at 40 km/h in new river city at night in the river. To be fair, that was my second game I ever played in MWO, so I had no clue of regular tactics. I saw you guys team death-match brawling, and I thought I could deal out lots of damage if I flanked. I didn't know that the river was that long, and by the time I was even close to coming out of the river to flank, everyone but me was dead. Then I was absolutely decimated because my controls were locked down by 500 "w"'s appearing on the screen when i unknowingly touched the chat key. So, do NOT follow the Atlas unless that pilot has even the tiniest amount of brains. I still think it would be better though if sticking as one big blob with ECM mechs was NOT the best srategy, as this just seems to reduce the amount of time each match lasts for. My favourite match I have played so far was were everyone in my team were in light mechs vs a team of atlases, and we crushed them by each one of the atlases trying to chase mechs 4 times faster. But if there are Atlases, chances are it is best to back it up .

Edited by shellashock, 16 February 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[Void Angel]

Eh, it's possible. I do apologize if I did yell at you without good cause. I've been new at a lot of games, but I tend to forget that in the heat of the moment. I get... frustrated in matches sometimes, which is why I created this thread to advocate tactics: both to allow the time and interaction necessary to facilitate thoughtful discourse - and to make my blood pressure spike less in-game.

You'd be wrong to assume that ECM is the only reason sticking together is a good tactic, however: even without ECM, concentration of forces is a mainstay of tactics. It may interest you to know that the US Army prefers three to one odds on the attack - not because it thinks we need them to win (we don't,) but because they feel that this number minimizes friendly casualties.

Edited by Void Angel, 16 February 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[UnseenFury]

MagicHamsta, on 19 December 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

4) Because Atlases tend to be piloted by more experienced players at the moment.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[Void Angel]

Please don't troll. This was written before the economy changes - so it took a lot to grind up to an Atlas, and a lot to maintain it. This really did mean that Atlases did tend to be piloted by more experienced players, simply by virtue of the time investment involved.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Most new Pilots who throw their money into an Atlas frequently seem to sell off their Atlas after the first few games - Atlas are still high up on my list of 'Mechs to follow' -If for no other reason than the 600+ points of armor they have that my Commando and Centurions DON'T.

There are other Reasons to follow the Atlas that fall into psuedo metagaming:

1- It gets the Atlas pilots used to having support, which means they are less likely to sacrifice front armor to cover their rears on account of feeling the need for it (because YOU are protecting their rear)
THIS IS A GOOD THING - I know of several Atlas puggers that do this (like Gwilliy) because they got tired of getting caught alone because everyone else ran off, then getting shot up from behind.

2- If you are a smaller mech for whom shadowing is an important skill (like the Commando) it gives you someone who WON'T shoot you for being near him to practice on.
-With the new Awesome changes, you probably really need to practice avoiding their front arc - friendly Awesomes can be used until the enemy is sighted.

Edited because I had more thoughts on the subject.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 17 February 2013 - 12:22 PM.

[HeliosRX]

I agree totally for the OP.

Statistically speaking, the Atlas will almost always pack the most armor of a team, thus it's your lynchpin: you'll be using it as a shield, as your primary close-range firepower (50 tons of WEAPONS!!!!!!) or, if nothing else, a standard with which to base the battle around, as the battles do tend to revolve around assaults brawling or sniping. You don't want your Atlas to die, but you definitely don't want to die first, so there's your incentive to stick around the Atlas.

One thing I'd like to add in about Atlas behavior pre- and post-contact: Before contact, stay with the Atlas, as this helps team cohesion and keeps you in a position to focus fire immediately. Post-contact, depending on the build of your Atlas, either charge with it or hang back, but never retreat if your opposition's forces are numerically equivalent or superior unless your Atlas does it first. I've piloted the Trial Atlas several times in PUG matches, and I am honestly disappointed by the number of PUGS who will ditch their brawler assault mechs in the face of opposition, even when we would have the advantage in a firefight. One second, I have a Dragon and a pair of Hunchbacks following me, and the moment we hit an enemy lance... *sighs* 1 Stalker, 2 Dragons, and a Centurion, iirc, and I had no backup. Still messed the Stalker and a Dragon up, though. If you retreat without your assault, you will be missing it shortly. The one exception is someone who is clearly a newbie, such as Trial Atlases who try to duel at 450 meters, beyond the effective range of almost all their weaponry. And even then, it's still an extra hundred points of armor.

One last thing: If nothing else, once you see the enemy, if you're following the Atlas you'll probably avoid the first salvo and be able to fire back without panicking. I panic while taking damage, though the Atlas pilot may not, damage being a regular occurrence, after all.

[Void Angel]

I mostly just find the culprit, smack him with lasers and SRMs, and then put as many UltraAC/5 rounds into him as I can before they jam. =)

[Jay Z]

As a Jenner pilot, protecting the Assault mechs is my responsibility. I don't follow them like a shadow but instead run around their general area, darting ahead to target enemies and swing back to pick the bugs off their backs. This also means that any other light mechs chasing me will be lead back in front of the assault mech which is a bad place for a light mech. Furthermore, follow where the assault mech shoots. Not just a particular mech, but the place on the mech. If the assault mech is targeting the right torso of another assault mech, I will pull out to the side, fire all the lasers then pull back to cool off. Since I can manoeuvre easily, my fire goes right to that spot speeding up the kill.

It should be noted that if you are just starting, then just do what OP says, However, this technique can be developed further if you so desire.

[Void Angel]

Eh, it's great to protect the Assaults once the fighting starts, but don't forget to scout a bit as well (I know, it sucks without ECM, so don't go too far.) Your methodology is good, however. I cannot count the number of times I've seen light 'mechs hide behind the Atlas' knees until we hit contact - and often to the enemy's advantage, because our scout wouldn't go do recon.

Your point about pinpoint focus (pun not intended) is excellent. In my opinion that's one of the most under-appreciated benefits of ECM - in preventing locks, it denies us data on which of them is actually hurt the most. That's why you should always try to lock onto whatever you're trying to kill, unless you're deliberately spotting something else. Even if you're in an ECM bubble, at least you can see where to shoot your target.

Edited by Void Angel, 21 February 2013 - 04:38 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Naturally they should be scouting - just do not wander to far from the team (who are probably near the Atlas) to get support if you need it.

One person (in this topic? I forget) suggested staying within around 700meters of your team, even when scouting, and thats been working well for me so far. (Have not had a chance to try Alpine though, so that may change)

Edited for Typo

Edited by Shar Wolf, 21 February 2013 - 05:05 PM.

[Void Angel]

Just be aware that the closer in you scout, the less effective you are, particularly without voice chat.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Well of course, but a dead scout is no use to your team either, and only one of my Commandos has much of any soloing potential, so for the most part I stay fairly close to the rest of the team.

I.E. guarding the flanks type scouting rather than running ahead first contact scouting.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 21 February 2013 - 10:18 PM.

[Lege]

Scatter like roaches soon as you get shot at. Let us pick you off one at a time please.
Seriously, if you can't see your team at all times your doing something wrong.
ECM scouts are one thing, they do need to check on the enemies location. Soon as they see something, they need to head back to their team.
Three mechs shooting one mech, the one mech is going to fall before getting another mech to half most the time.
Ideally you want four mechs shooting one target and the other four mechs shooting another target.
Soon as your up eight mechs to six mechs, you keep assisting and kill two more mechs. Don't get cocky, until your up by four mechs, then you can pretty much do whatever you want and your going to win.
All it takes is one or two people running off by themselves and dying for a team to lose.

[Void Angel]

Shar Wolf, on 21 February 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:

Well of course, but a dead scout is no use to your team either, and only one of my Commandos has much of any soloing potential, so for the most part I stay fairly close to the rest of the team.

I.E. guarding the flanks type scouting rather than running ahead first contact scouting.

In other words, picket duty instead of recon. Technically not the same as scouting but I won't quibble. =) With non-ECM lights, you have to do a sort of hybrid scout/picket role, because not only do people instantly start to slap you around whenever you expose yourself scouting, but the Streak who Skilled Raven Pilots on the other team can really wreck your day if they catch you. Because they're so good. And not because they picked a 35 ton scout with ECM and streaks at all. It's all them. Totally skill. For real.

[Skadi]

Had 2 atlai talking trash to me on my team today on forest colony for standing on the edge of the arch trying to pull them in when their team came in from the cave.

Eventualy they came, loaded into one of their atlai and backed behind the wall before any real damage could be done.
A Atlas, a murder mets, a treab, and a stalker walked through and immediatly went for the 2 atlai hiding in a corner mocking me, i turned and ***** their enemy team in the back...
they both died and i did 800 damage and they did 100 because they died from standing idle as atlai.

[Void Angel]

There is no such thing as an "atlai."

But you're right, you don't want to sit there dithering until you get flanked. There's a thread about that in my signature. =)

[1BigFool]

I agree with a lot of what the OP said.

Assault mechs soak up a LOT of damage. I'm pretty sure they're constructed for...oh, I don't know...ASSAULT. If their team is backing them up, you can put a lot of hurt on the enemy. Was just in several games where mechs followed the general spirit of the aforementioned guidelines. The assaults led with heavies and mediums backing them up. Lights ran ahead and found the enemy, caused a little mayhem and ran back. We then knew where the enemy was and got the other team to spread themselves out chasing lights.

The only thing I'd add would be to communicate. Share information and try to guide the newer pilots. Oh, and if someone asks if there is a plan, actually try to have one and share it.