478 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

I didn't figure any insult was intended at all, which is why I was only slightly annoyed - I see what you were getting at now. =)

I still think you may have overestimated the degree to which damage spreads at close ranges.

[Wintersdark]

Void Angel, on 27 January 2014 - 11:41 PM, said:

I didn't figure any insult was intended at all, which is why I was only slightly annoyed - I see what you were getting at now. =)

I still think you may have overestimated the degree to which damage spreads at close ranges.

The LBX's don't spread significantly at close ranges, though the srms still do.

In knife fight range, the lbx atlas is a monster. Its just that its so easy to engage at longer ranges and still generate huge damage numbers (leading to players being all OMG LOOK AT HOW AWESOME I AM) while not accomplishing much.

This is why I said it needs to be used correctly, and supported correctly.

I'd rather follow a fracking LBX atlas than a ppc/LRM atlas any day, though.

[Void Angel]

Don't mention Lurmwarrior Atlases - you're going to give me hives...

[Alaskan Nobody]

Void Angel, on 28 January 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Don't mention Lurmwarrior Atlases - you're going to give me hives...

The amount of those I have been seeing lately....
(You only have 10 tubes!!!!!)

[Wintersdark]

Void Angel, on 28 January 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Don't mention Lurmwarrior Atlases - you're going to give me hives...

Seriously, whenever I pick an Atlas to FtfA, I run in front of them and count tubes just in case. There's nothing worse than discovering that you're escorting one of those.

Shar Wolf, on 28 January 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

The amount of those I have been seeing lately....
(You only have 10 tubes!!!!!)

SO MANY.

[Void Angel]

Some people are just splashing them in to have something to do while the sniper phase is going on... I don't know that I like those builds, but they're in the realm of possibility. It's the guys who load out with (I swear I am not making this up) 3 LRM15s, TAG, and a Medium Laser that really make me want to scream at them.

[White Panther]

Wintersdark, on 28 January 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:

The LBX's don't spread significantly at close ranges, though the srms still do.

In knife fight range, the lbx atlas is a monster. Its just that its so easy to engage at longer ranges and still generate huge damage numbers (leading to players being all OMG LOOK AT HOW AWESOME I AM) while not accomplishing much.

This is why I said it needs to be used correctly, and supported correctly.

I'd rather follow a fracking LBX atlas than a ppc/LRM atlas any day, though.

I think an AC20 DDC is much more of a threat then 2 lbx10. Even PPC Atlas seem better these days. LRM setups seem to do a lot more damage then most people would realize, although still not a great way to run the Atlas obviously.

It's disingenuous to use dual lbx10's on a DDC for the purpose of brawling. The mechanics of the weapon alone should deter people. Sure it can be fun sometimes but to seriously do it match after match, one would question the mental state of those people.

[Davinelulinvega]

Just don't boat lrms on an Atlas, there are by far better mechs for that.

[wanderer]

Void Angel, on 20 August 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

I'm very skeptical about using LRMs in indirect fire as an Atlas. Stalkers, and even Awesomes, do that much better than the Atlas (due to hardpoint locations and tube limitations.) My preferred build with LRMs was an ERPPC, 2 ALRM20s, and a large laser - highly effective prior to LRMageddon. Sadly, the aftermath of LRMageddon, coupled with the hardpoint-locking of ECM, killed that build for me. I'm still trying to find a build on my D-DC that will allow me to use LRMs effectively in direct, line of sight combat again - which is where LRMs and the Atlas are most effective.

TAG. TAG. TAG TAG TAG TAG TAG. Did I mention TAG? It's one of the reasons I prefer the -RS for LRMs vs. the D-DC, since it's so limited on energy weaponry. On a D-DC, you're stuck with one decent energy weapon period if you want TAG though, which generally means a ballistic second "main gun" instead, like an AC/5.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ab56213c7329142 ,for example. Not that the PPC doesn't kill ECM, but nothing says "love" like TAG-designating your Artemis-clustered rounds on someone's face. The AC/5 gives you something to interject shots with the other guns with.

[Inflatable Fish]

I support this thread.

but from my experience with PUGs, it's downright appalling how many assault mech pilots are afraid of getting in the fight. most of the games I've lost in PUGs were caused by fat mechs sitting perched behind their happy ridge instead of seizing the initiative.

so "Follow the fracking Atlas" begs for a counterpart directed at the Atlai themselves: "Move yo 100-ton (Atl)***"

[Void Angel]

wanderer, on 28 January 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

TAG. TAG. TAG TAG TAG TAG TAG. Did I mention TAG? It's one of the reasons I prefer the -RS for LRMs vs. the D-DC, since it's so limited on energy weaponry. On a D-DC, you're stuck with one decent energy weapon period if you want TAG though, which generally means a ballistic second "main gun" instead, like an AC/5.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ab56213c7329142 ,for example. Not that the PPC doesn't kill ECM, but nothing says "love" like TAG-designating your Artemis-clustered rounds on someone's face. The AC/5 gives you something to interject shots with the other guns with.

The problem isn't just that you sacrifice half your energy hardpoints on a D-DC; an RS would indeed be a better choice for that reason - but any Atlas lacks sufficient tubes to rely on LRMs as primary arms. Tubes; tubes; tubes-tubes-tubes-tubes-tubes. You just don't have enough of them. =) This artificially reduces the recycle times of your launchers, and gives your enemies more time to close the gap with you and engage your barrages with AMS. You can use them as supplemental arms, even using TAG if you have the hardpoints... but the Atlas is the worst Assault chassis on which to boat missiles.

[Void Angel]

Inflatable Fish, on 28 January 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

I support this thread.

but from my experience with PUGs, it's downright appalling how many assault mech pilots are afraid of getting in the fight. most of the games I've lost in PUGs were caused by fat mechs sitting perched behind their happy ridge instead of seizing the initiative.

so "Follow the fracking Atlas" begs for a counterpart directed at the Atlai themselves: "Move yo 100-ton (Atl)***"

The problem is that the current meta tends to punish newbies for leaving cover. If you are not hugging your favorite rock, you get plastered by AC/2s from a grid and a half away, blasted with dual Gauss for half your side toso armor; or simply pounded relentlessly by LRM boats ranging from saturation bombardment to LRM5 shake-abuse cheese builds. There's a lot out there to punish you for leaving cover the wrong time, and the crippling amount of punishment you take gives people little room to learn when the right time is.

It stems, I think, from metagame pressure: both the game mechanics themselves, and people's perception of how those interactions affect them. Poptarts' ability to defeat cover make it hard on brawlers who are attempting to close with them, but the nerfs aimed at limiting mass fires of high-alpha weapons also increased the desirability of dakka-type autocannons - leading to an increase in long-range AC builds. The jump snipers switched over to dakka as their supplementary arms, and now brawlers feel like they're taking it from both groups whenever they move out of cover.

All of this helped create an environment where the team would simply refuse to leave cover to support a brawler - even when he was right. That's always been somewhat of a problem. Indeed, that kind of thing was part of why this thread was originally created, but recently the problem has worsened because of the above domino chain. As people learn how to cooperate with each other, it's my hope that the situation will improve, and we'll see fewer Lurm-Warrior Atlases trying to hide behind a rock half their size.

Edited by Void Angel, 28 January 2014 - 10:59 PM.

[Asmosis]

I recently decided to get Atlas as it'll probably be a year or more before we get another 100T mech, and I have to say don't knock the pilots till you walk a mile in their shoes.

I've found a few things which are mostly obvious, but need repeating.

1) if the atlas crests the hill to lead the charge, most of the team will wait about 5 seconds or so befor popping their own heads over, just to make sure everyone is shooting at the atlas first. This normally results in the atlas dying and the team deciding "yep charging would have failed, good thing I didn't go".

2) Atlas are slow. Even if you put a 360 engine in them, they are still very large, incoming fire is not spread across locations like smaller mechs when taking ac chainfire or lasers so it actually takes about the same or less incoming fire to cripple an atlas compared to a heavy mech. They aren't super tanks, they can take more spread damage weapon fire but only 1-2 more hits on direct fire.

3) Atlas have low slung weapons so they really have to commit to leaving cover. They can't pop-up and retreat like a jaggermech can, and when they do crest see above. If there isn't more than one target for the enemy to shoot at when cresting, that single target will go down just as quick as a medium mech.

*edit*

also as side note, an unskilled atlas is about as maneuverable as walking through quicksand with cement shoes. Until its maxed and you have the 2x basic + speed tweak, they are a nightmare to drive.

Edited by Asmosis, 28 January 2014 - 11:47 PM.

[wanderer]

Quote

but the Atlas is the worst Assault chassis on which to boat missiles.

You never could properly boat- well, unless you sacrificed on a -D-DC, which meant a cruddy secondary battery that couldn't repulse a one-legged Locust.

It's really the 'Mech designed for mixed use. Pelt someone with a PPC,AC,and LRMs at the same time? Go Atlas. Boat practically anything? NOPE. The Orion's big bro.

[Charons Little Helper]

Shar Wolf, on 28 January 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

The amount of those I have been seeing lately....
(You only have 10 tubes!!!!!)

Atlases don't make good LRM boats - but they're one of the few mechs with the tonnage to be LRM mechs (since you need at least and LRM 25 to be worth firing) + solid brawlers. I like putting an LRM 25 or 30 into my DDC (only 2 volleys) It lets me do something while I'm catching up to the rest of the team.

But I agree - going primarily LRMs on an Atlas is dumb. In addition to my LRMs - I have 2 ER Large Lasers & and AC20.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Charons Little Helper, on 29 January 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

I like putting an LRM 25 or 30 into my DDC (only 2 volleys) It lets me do something while I'm catching up to the rest of the team.

I use 1-2 LRM10 or a single 20 (for better heat control) for about those reasons.
They might not have the amount that most would consider "Needed" but since it will only fire 15 of them at once for my -D and -D-DC... (10 for the LRM tubes and 6 SRM tubes)

[Charons Little Helper]

Shar Wolf, on 29 January 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

I use 1-2 LRM10 or a single 20 (for better heat control) for about those reasons.
They might not have the amount that most would consider "Needed" but since it will only fire 15 of them at once for my -D and -D-DC... (10 for the LRM tubes and 6 SRM tubes)

You can get 21 if you're cool like me. (LRM 15 / LRM 10 / LRM 5)

[Alaskan Nobody]

Charons Little Helper, on 29 January 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

You can get 21 if you're cool like me. (LRM 15 / LRM 10 / LRM 5)

Curious about how.....

Though noting that it is still under the

Charons Little Helper, on 29 January 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

25 to be worth firing

[Charons Little Helper]

25+ total is worth firing

LRM 15 / LRM 10 / LRM 5 is 30 total - just 21 in the 1st volley. The AMS doesn't get to do full damage to the second volley. (though the AMS still pops a missile or two more than if all 30 were in a single volley)

Edited by Charons Little Helper, 30 January 2014 - 01:35 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Charons Little Helper, on 30 January 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

25+ total is worth firing

Only reason I can see for having an "X is worth firing" value is to counter AMS - that would depend on how many AMS you are trying to blow through - and would also require that "X" to be fired all at once.