49 replies to this topic

[KuruptU4Fun]

ECM works best when used in a coordinated team, that's where most people believe it gets truly OP and abused. But the likelihood of ECM's current implementation being around until the C3 Network components are playable is pretty likely.

A C3 Network is
a network consisting of either a C3 Command Unit and up to three C3 Slave Units or six C3i units. Basically a special tight-beam communications network, they are used to share targeting data between 'Mechs and Combat Vehicles. The original C3 Networks were introduced in 3050 by the Draconis Combine.

If you thought LRM boats are bad now then wait until this comes out, it can use the targeting data of 3 different mechs and flip between them to provide support as needed.

Since it seems that TAG has become a better counter to ECM since the patch (at least in theory) and I believe that NARC should get a real buff to counter it too. Implementing ECM before C3 makes a lot of sense (if you remove the timeline).

So by all means let's discuss.

[Kaspirikay]

All I know is I'm investing in Atlas exp to master my DDC.

[Noth]

You do know that we already have C3 free on every mech. You share you targeting data with other player already

[KuruptU4Fun]

Noth, on 21 December 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

You do know that we already have C3 free on every mech. You share you targeting data with other player already

I can target what they have actively targeted yes, but I have to switch from one teammate to another actively. C3 Network information (as ambiguous as it is) seems to suggest that with using it I can do so passively.

[Noth]

KuruptU4Fun, on 21 December 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

I can target what they have actively targeted yes, but I have to switch from one teammate to another actively. C3 Network information (as ambiguous as it is) seems to suggest that with using it I can do so passively.

It shares targeting info, to get targeting info you have to target something, so we already have C3. What we have now is pretty much exactly how C3 is described to work.

Edited by Noth, 21 December 2012 - 08:19 AM.

[Strucker]

ECM really needs to be tweeked its a bit too OP atm, the amount of times I've run into 2 or 3 players running a lance with all ECM SSRM Ravens or Commando's is ridiculous.

My ideal situation would be one in which a single ECM on counter would nullify the effects of every ECM within its radius. It would therefore still maintain the effectiveness of ECM while reducing the ridiculous blobbing tactics which currently plague its implementation.

Therefore 8 ECM's within the same radius could be countered by a single ECM within that radius, in order to maintain the effectiveness of ECM blankets a team would have to spread out to maintain their coverage, focus fire to take out any enemy ECM Mechs, and be overall more coordinated rather than just blobbing.

I'm also desperately looking forward to the re-implementation of knockdown and collision but thats a whole other story.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Noth, on 21 December 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

It shares targeting info, to get targeting info you have to target something, so we already have C3. What we have now is pretty much exactly how C3 is described to work.

Well then I guess we'll have to wait until PGI creates the C3 Network to see if there are truly differences..

[Smeghead87]

I don't think they are creating the C3 network, since as Noth already said, every mech already has it as standard in MWO.

[AlexWildeagle]

I don't see them tweaking ECM anymore. ECM really is only effective in premade groups, pugging I am without ECM more then I have it. And even when it is there I can't stay in the radius cause the light moves faster then I do.
Only benefit I see from ECM is the smarter players are building more balanced mechs and that cuts down the missile abuse greatly. ECM may not work exactly as it does in the TT but it has swung lances back to more what they are in TT.

[New Breed]

ECM doesn't need a nerf, jesus..

narc and tag counter it fine



now where did I put that troll face

[MrPenguin]

Good, ECM is fine as is.

[New Breed]

MrPenguin, on 21 December 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

Good, ECM is fine as is.

The only people who say this are the ones who use ECM exclusively

[AlexWildeagle]

Ghost Bear, on 21 December 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

The only people who say this are the ones who use ECM exclusively

I don't use it at all and I say that. You'll only find me in my phracht 1M, at least until the spider comes out.

The only people who have a problem with it are the ones who still do the LRM abominations and can't figure out how to get around it.

[Noth]

AlexWildeagle, on 21 December 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

I don't use it at all and I say that. You'll only find me in my phracht 1M, at least until the spider comes out.

The only people who have a problem with it are the ones who still do the LRM abominations and can't figure out how to get around it.

Incorrect. I never run LRM boats, and mostly just use brawling setups. It's too strong because it counters so much for such a little cost. It also makes it too easy to avoid being detected while flanking or setting traps.

[Fate 6]

AlexWildeagle, on 21 December 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I don't see them tweaking ECM anymore. ECM really is only effective in premade groups, pugging I am without ECM more then I have it. And even when it is there I can't stay in the radius cause the light moves faster then I do.
Only benefit I see from ECM is the smarter players are building more balanced mechs and that cuts down the missile abuse greatly. ECM may not work exactly as it does in the TT but it has swung lances back to more what they are in TT.

I've seen plenty of 4-mans run 3 Missile boats (1 of which is a DDC) and a light with ECM to spot. Smart players abuse ECM, and then use that abuse to use missiles.

[SteelPaladin]

Noth, on 21 December 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

It shares targeting info, to get targeting info you have to target something, so we already have C3. What we have now is pretty much exactly how C3 is described to work.

It's really not.

What we have in MWO is being able to spot for LRM indirect fire (which never needed C3) and being able to know what other mechs your teammates see and where they are (which you, as the player, always knew in TT since you could see the board).

The real advantage of C3, being able to fire direct-fire weapons as if you were at the range of your closest teammate to the target (e.g. getting to roll a short-range to-hit even though you're at long range because your C3 buddy is at short range), doesn't exist in MWO and likely never will. I mean, how would you implement that?

Edited by SteelPaladin, 21 December 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[Noth]

SteelPaladin, on 21 December 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

It's really not.

What we have in MWO is being able to spot for LRM indirect fire (which never needed C3) and being able to know what other mechs your teammates see and where they are (which you, as the player, always knew in TT since you could see the board).

The real advantage of C3, being able to fire direct fire weapons as if you were at the range of your closest teammate to the target (e.g. getting to roll a short-range to-hit even though you're at long range because your C3 buddy is at short range), doesn't exist in MWO and likely never will. I mean, how would you implement that?

C3 shares targeting data and that is what we have, so we already have C3.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

MrPenguin, on 21 December 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

Good, ECM is fine as is.

nice troll. You think that because (as we learned from another thread) you dont run lrms or srms. It doesnt affect YOU so YOU dont see a problem.

[KuruptU4Fun]

SteelPaladin, on 21 December 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

It's really not.

What we have in MWO is being able to spot for LRM indirect fire (which never needed C3) and being able to know what other mechs your teammates see and where they are (which you, as the player, always knew in TT since you could see the board).

The real advantage of C3, being able to fire direct-fire weapons as if you were at the range of your closest teammate to the target (e.g. getting to roll a short-range to-hit even though you're at long range because your C3 buddy is at short range), doesn't exist in MWO and likely never will. I mean, how would you implement that?

I was actually hoping someone with TT knowledge would chime in here on this. Would making an LRM volley from one mech when a C3 slave doing the targeting give any other advantages?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Noth, on 21 December 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

C3 shares targeting data and that is what we have, so we already have C3.

careful how often you sa that, as Ive found out you can get warnings if you post the same thing twice (even if its repeating what needs to be repeated because ppl arent getting it)

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/C3

Quote

The C3 Networks that exist today are geared towards the smallest level of tactical command: This means that each 'Mech in a Lance (or a ComGuard Level I for C3i) can share targeting data. There have been efforts to expand this targeting coordination to the Company level by using a 'Mech with a pair of C3 Command Units, like the Draconis Combine's Tai-sho.^[2]

"can share targeting data"
seems like what we do now imo

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 21 December 2012 - 11:36 AM.