128 replies to this topic

[siLve00]

Stavinsky Elyas, on 21 December 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

And i wanted to add, I find the SSRM2 definitively strong, as I have soloed a good number of
assaults in my Jenner with only 2 of those SSRM2, with 2 tons of ammo, and some med lasers.

bwhahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhahaahhaahahahahahaha

okay dude.. it must be the ssrm !!!!!!!!!

[soapyfrog]

Stavinsky is pretty much correct, SSRM2 are long overdue for a nerf, and the devs are committed to nerfing them both in increasing the number of possible lock points to include the limbs which will immediately make them much less scary to all but light mechs, and some unspecified nerf in the future, perhaps a stacking penalty of some kind.

ECM is not really a nerf to streaks in a properly cooperative environment. It's not relevant to the conversation. Maybe ECM needs nerfs too, and I think we will likely see some nerfs or added ECM counters. Seperate discussion.

I don't think anyone who plays this game seriously would agree that streaks should stay as they are today. The threat of SSRM4 and 6 on the distant horizon should be enough to convince anyone that changes need to be made.

And yes I have soloed heavies and assaults in streak armed light mechs as well. Sure you could say I could have done that with any loadout potentially... maybe but I would have had to a) aim and do some heat management. Right now its just facerolllllllll.... a monkey could do it.

[BigBadHarv]

if the rockback was nerfed they would be easier to deal with. 2 missiles doing 2 damage each shouldnt hit like an ac 20

[Kdogg788]

Stavinsky Elyas, on 21 December 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

ECM is not their counter, actually they are abused in ways that are not how the dev have though about them.

In fact the dev clearly stated they are working on a way to prevent the use of more than 2, or that using more than
2 will be very much harder than actually.

If you take the rule of the table top, you have to add +1 for each interlocked missile.

So if you pick a "normal" pilot, with a gunnery of 4, shooting with 6 SSRM, you end up with a starting
difficulty to 'hit' of 4+5= 9, and that's without adding any other bonus/malus.

When you add the distance your target has moved, it can go from 0 to +5 (and more),
and then you add the range (from +0 to +4), and 270m = +4. So it mean that with 2 D6, if you
try to hit at "long range" it's an instant miss. No lock, no shoot. And that's for 2 mech that are
moving at the "fascinating" speed of 0 kph.

So to come back to the dev discussion, it was stated that they are trying to find a way to nerf
the abuse, without killing their use for light mech. But still preventing the use of more than 2
SSRM. And it's why I ask if there is any news.

Actually w0rm, your entry is not constructive, and don't answer my question. So please don't comment
in a useless way on the forum.






Actually if you are unlucky enough to have 0 ECM in your team, then you are completely dead.

Happened again and again tonight. Over 10 battles with that exact situation.
So no they are not in any 'terrible' state.

I use up to 2 myself, limiting myself to something "reasonable", and I can use them every time
I need them, as I have plenty of situations to use them. But if I want to play the mech I need to
grind, and I end up in a team with 0 ECM, there is no way to stop the abuse.

And it's even more true when you have pugs who specificaly build their team to abuse
the SSRM by coming with 1 or 2 ECM mech (like the commandos) and who can simply
cancel any ECM they have in front, and open the way for their 4 man team to pour
SSRM missiles again and again. And that's not how it is supposed to be.

These antiquated tabletop rules are null and void if the streaks are chain fired. Honestly, they are more abused in lights than heavies and assaults. Streaks are typically not a very good direct brawl weapon. If they come up with rules to appease the criers who complain about streaks like others complain about LRMs or ECMs or whatever, they might end limiting the boating of any weapon even small lasers or medium lasers.

-k

[Zynk]

I would say 1 out of 3 games I play do not have ecm.

As for the streakcat there was one on other side but in that match I was on an ECM mech it came down to him as only one left on his side and I found him.

I was in my Raven and just followed him shooting until he died as he only had streaks and with the chance of that much ecm being on a battle field streak only cats are IMO a bad idea.

[ARCTICF0X]

It is hard to believe that people still complain about streaks.

They really do not need further adjustment.

[Kdogg788]

Zynk, on 21 December 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

I would say 1 out of 3 games I play do not have ecm.

As for the streakcat there was one on other side but in that match I was on an ECM mech it came down to him as only one left on his side and I found him.

I was in my Raven and just followed him shooting until he died as he only had streaks and with the chance of that much ecm being on a battle field streak only cats are IMO a bad idea.

Streak cats and Stalkers aren't the issue, it's streak lights with ECM who can streak without worrying abut getting streaked back in many cases. This is one reason besides hit detection and lack of collisions that makes Ravens ridiculous right now.

-k

Edited by Kdogg788, 21 December 2012 - 10:21 PM.

[Sean von Steinike]

271m+ range is a hard counter to streaks. If they bother you so much, get some longer ranged weapons. Personally, I rarely use Streaks.

[Taurick]

Quote

soapyfrog, on 22 December 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:


Stavinsky is pretty much correct, SSRM2 are long overdue for a nerf, and the devs are committed to nerfing them both in increasing the number of possible lock points to include the limbs which will immediately make them much less scary to all but light mechs, and some unspecified nerf in the future, perhaps a stacking penalty of some kind.

I don't think anyone who plays this game seriously would agree that streaks should stay as they are today. The threat of SSRM4 and 6 on the distant horizon should be enough to convince anyone that changes need to be made.

Yeh, SSRM4/6 will be quite unbalanced if they retain SSRM2 functionality as it is today,

Unfortunately heavily nerfing SSRM2 now in anticipation of SSRM4/6 will most likely obsolete SSRM2 over night, they really are quite low damage. The weapon system itself and the payload are quite balanced, what's unbalanced is their guidance system almost always hitting the CT.

They should hit the CT a lot, but not every damn time.

I propose each missile has a 2d6 roll on where it will hit the target in order to spread the damage out a little bit. I figure the following table is a pretty good example of where the hit distribution on streaks should be (apologies for boring research tables)

**Roll -- Hit -- Probability (%)**
 
2 -- HD -- 2.78
3 -- RL/LL -- 5.56
4 -- RA/LA -- 8.33
5 -- RT/LT -- 11.11
6 -- CT -- 13.89
7 -- CT -- 16.67
8 -- CT -- 13.89
9 -- RT/LT -- 11.11
10 -- RA/LA -- 8.33
11 -- RL/LL -- 5.56
12 -- HD -- 2.78
 
Example Streak cat - 12 missiles/alpha
**TGT -- avg missile hits per alpha**
HD -- 0.66
CT -- 5.334
RT/LT -- 2.666
RA/LA -- 1.999
RL/LL -- 1.3
 
eg roll 1
Output: 7 - 9 - 3 - 8 - 7 - 9 - 11 - 6 - 6 - 10 - 7 - 7
Hits: CT - RT/LT - RL/LL - CT - CT - RT/LT - RL/LL - CT - CT - RA/LA - CT - CT
 
eg roll 2
Output: 6 - 3 - 5 - 8 - 9 - 6 - 4 - 7 - 6 - 7 - 7 - 11
Hits: CT - RL/LL - RT/LT - CT - RT/LT - CT - RA/LA - CT - CT - CT - CT - RL/LL
 
eg roll 3
Output: 3 - 7 - 11 - 12 - 7 - 7 - 6 - 9 - 3 - 4 - 2 - 6
Hits: RL/LL - CT - RL/LL - HD - CT - CT - CT - RT/LT - RL/LL - RA/LA - HD - CT

Edited by Taurich, 21 December 2012 - 11:07 PM.

[Sarevos]

siLve00, on 21 December 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

bwhahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhahaahhaahahahahahaha

okay dude.. it must be the ssrm !!!!!!!!!

I dont even know about the supposed strength of SSRMs anymore no SSRM boat tends to do well against same weight opponents minus the light category SRMS are pretty much king up close or AC20s/2 UAC5s the reason he beats atlases is they dont park themselves against a wall and flak at him (tunnel vision i suppose) streaks arent rampant anymore as a streak boat is usually obliterated by alpha builds and many scout users mount ecm

[Glythe]

I think you have a right to whine about streaks as soon as ECM has a real counter other than itself.

Otherwise ECM>>>streaks.

If you are a light pilot and are upset because 5x streak stalkers can instagib you in 2 volleys then you will quit when they fix the net code that is giving you more health than an Atlas.

Also I would like to point out that streaks now target legs as well instead of chest/torso only so their effective dps (on critical locations) went WAY down.

Edited by Glythe, 22 December 2012 - 02:59 AM.

[Sarevos]

Glythe, on 22 December 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

I think you have a right to whine about streaks as soon as ECM has a real counter other than itself.

Otherwise ECM>>>streaks.

If you are a light pilot and are upset because 5x streak stalkers can instagib you in 2 volleys then you will quit when they fix the net code that is giving you more health than an Atlas.

Also I would like to point out that streaks now target legs as well instead of chest/torso only so their effective dps (on critical locations) went WAY down.

who would gimp their machine like that?!? lol srm6s will either kill or leg a light if you aim 2 mech lengths ahead of him before firing even at ~220 yards

knockdowns and netcode fix is going to put the screws to BAD light pilots (those who know what theyre doing will still be horrifying) but knockdowns will also prevent mechs from stacking on each other like they currently do or we'll have a mess of big team pile ups. Brawling too will become less rampant due to the fear of simply falling all over one another and roles will probably take better shape again long range weapons will probably come back in popularity with the heat fix incoming as well

[Novawrecker]

Here's their nerf: ECM, LRMs, and fast mech dancing around them tearing them a new one, sniper mechs.

Need more? Cause we can list a few ....

[Koreanese]

Streaks are joke. Precision weapons is way more op then non precision weapon

[Flapdrol]

I dont get why they go to all the trouble of taking anti boating measures for streaks.

just nerf them allround, right now an ECM raven with 2 streaks will annihilate all other lights, it's virtually impossible to beat it with a laser light. the streaks always hit and have way, way better damage/heat than lasers. the raven will have a couple of lasers as well.

sure, ECM has made streakboats less viable when pugging, but they're still just as ridiculous when you have the ECM advantage.

the ecm + streak commando is the most ridiculous example of how streaks + ecm works. If 2 of these go head to head they'll slaughter eachother in seconds. If a whole team fires lasers at a fast moving commando it'll be barely damaged.

Edited by Flapdrol, 22 December 2012 - 04:32 AM.

[Novawrecker]

Flapdrol, on 22 December 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

I dont get why they go to all the trouble of taking anti boating measures for streaks.

You think ECM was made soley for the purpose of shutting down (ch)easy-mode streak users?

Keep thinking that

I'm glad that Streak-pults got shut down due to ECM. It inspired people to run more effective and devastating builds such as the SRM6-pult.

Edited by Novawrecker, 22 December 2012 - 04:33 AM.

[Sarevos]

Flapdrol, on 22 December 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

I dont get why they go to all the trouble of taking anti boating measures for streaks.

just nerf them allround, right now an ECM raven with 2 streaks will annihilate all other lights, it's virtually impossible to beat it with a laser light. the streaks always hit and have way, way better damage/heat than lasers. the raven will have a couple of lasers as well.

sure, ECM has made streakboats less viable when pugging, but they're still just as ridiculous when you have the ECM advantage.

as is anything with any kind of "advantage"...

[Flapdrol]

Sarevos, on 22 December 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

as is anything with any kind of "advantage"...

No advantage is as big as the ecm advantage + streaks.

Edited by Flapdrol, 22 December 2012 - 04:36 AM.

[Naeron66]

w0rm, on 21 December 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

[redacted] Streaks are balanced with ECM now in game. 1 Streak boat hast to team up with at least 1 ECM boat to make sure it can deliver.

And what about the games without coordinated ECM on your team? Which is what solo and casual players end up with a lot of the time.

In those games nothing at all has been done about boating streaks.

[Rippthrough]

Bring your own ECM?

Stay outside 270m?

Kill them before they even get a lock?