195 replies to this topic

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Wow it just is the same thing over and over... ECM works exactly as it used to in the previous Mechwarrior games it seems to me... I remember my displays flickering in MW3 and MW4 from ECM jamming.

Actually in MW4 Mercs, all ECM did was increase locking time, and reduce radar range by about 200m.(from 1k to 800) Also, the BAP restored this right back if you had one. In MC1, it was just radar ranges, with them again canceling each other out. Here however, ECM does FAR MORE THAN EVER BEFORE, and BAP does FAR LESS THAN EVER BEFORE.(By that, I mean NOTHING vs ECM)

[TopHatt]

I stand corrected.
I agree about BAP.
ECM was never powerful enough to end LRM boats in MW3 or 4 so it must have been weaker.
LRMs are still seen in game though so they must work sometimes.

[Codejack]

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

I stand corrected.
I agree about BAP.
ECM was never powerful enough to end LRM boats in MW3 or 4 so it must have been weaker.
LRMs are still seen in game though so they must work sometimes.

Well, you can usually find people outside of ECM, and premades can count on having ECM scouts to counter so they can lock.

But yea, we just want it weaker and/or some better counters.

[80Bit]

I find the entire debate really incredible.

Look at the forum and you see a small but vocal fair sized, vocal group calling ECM the devil.
Look more and you see a small but vocal group calling Streaks the devil.
Look further and you see a small but vocal group calling LRMs the devil.


When I drop into a PUG with my LRM equipped (but not boated) mech and the enemy is fully covered by ECM, it's annoying.
When I drop into a PUG with my Streak equipped (but not boated) mech and the enemy is fully covered by ECM, it's annoying.
When I drop into a PUG with my Assault mech and get swarmed by enemy lights, it's annoying. (Just like it was before ECM)
When I drop into a PUG with my ECM equipped mech and the enemy is using mostly lasers, ppcs, ballistics, or dumb-fire missiles, it's slightly annoying.

It's almost as if...this is a team game where some items counter other items and there is more going on their just your personal build.

Also:

It's almost as if...you should not boat one type of weapon to much or you risk being totally countered and shut down.
I have just as much fun in PUG matches pre-ECM as I had pre-ECM.


However, all that said, I agree that ECM is a bit to powerful given the fact it has no down sides, is light and small, and is available on some of the better mechs. I would like either BAP to partially counter it, let TAG allow lock even when you are within the bubble, or something along those lines.

[verybad]

They mentioned there were a fe things coming that would affeect ECM. PPCs and module(s)

I think they should make NARCs have an alternate mode that makes it work as a friendly ECCM (for 20 seconds just like normal NARCs) if it hits an enemy target with ECM on it.

This would make NARC useful all of a sudden, and have NARC + TAG on the same mech make sense.

Plus it would give Non-ECM carrying mechs a valid defence/offence verse ECM carrying mechs.

Edited by verybad, 22 December 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[Tennex]

Please balance ECM

[Felix]

Tennex, on 22 December 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

Please balance ECM

They wont, PGI doesnt listen to their players, and they have said that they are perfectly happy with how ECM acts.

So they will continue to be pants on head stupid even as it drives their game into the ground

[paladin yst]

Quote

Actually in MW4 Mercs, all ECM did was increase locking time, and reduce radar range by about 200m.(from 1k to 800) Also, the BAP restored this right back if you had one. In MC1, it was just radar ranges, with them again canceling each other out. Here however, ECM does FAR MORE THAN EVER BEFORE, and BAP does FAR LESS THAN EVER BEFORE.(By that, I mean NOTHING vs ECM)

EXACTLY, Ecm is way way way more powerful, I mean the cloaking and absolute 100% anti locking is just unreasonable for such a small piece of equipment.

The problem with ecm is that it renders missile totally useless, EVERY SINGLE missile wep is affected by it which totally makes no sense at all, artemis, streaks. Ppl dont seem to understand missile is a HUGE PART of a mech, theres no frikkin way to change hardpoints and ecm basically paralysed a mech with it.

The effects are just far out, even making 100% increase in locktime makes it borderline rediculous, a good light can circle and circle before u even get a lock. Lrm is an essential part of the game, the dmg it dealt is nothing at all considering how much tonnage it puts in.

Where as when uve a raven or lolmando ecmed and streak its frikkin less than 10 ton and it basically **** ANY assault solo, even when not killed, it can dealt a tremendous amount of dmg, far more than an assault vs assault can do sometimes. Medium is even worse lol, being so lightly armored they r like the first blood of any lights.

Ppl come up with so many ecm light counter suggestionsss, NONE of them is a real counter, I`m just so bored of sticking with my lolmando and cicada anymore, cbf wasting mc to convert the xp. When I hunt a non light/ecm, the success rate can be said to be 100%, they get wiped out from the radar, no one knows where he is, even he doesnt know where i am, and just keeps eating mlaser and streak till the cbill thing pops up.

BAP needs a major buff to be somekind of ECM shield, and tag should totally remove any penalties off lock item vs ecm, only a foolish pilot would let a tag paint it 24/7 anyway, atm any stupid noobs can act like they r pro with ecm. falls to me to root out these ametuer ecm'er when I counter/streak it to peices.

[Critical Fumble]

I love all the "But it takes SSRMs and LRMs down a notch so its ok" statements. Heaven forbid a weapon be balanced by its own value, rather than by an external event.

[Naeron66]

AlexWildeagle, on 22 December 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

Yes. ECM really sucks. I can no longer sit 800 meters back and just pull the trigger.
I have to actually move around learn how to target mechs outside ECM effect.

On top of which I have to actually put some direct fire weapons on my mech because the enemy can now get closer to me cause I wasn't paying attention.

This has to change I have lost me easy missile dominance and now have to actually use some strategy. Change it now or I quit.

ECM has not changed missile dominance one bit, nor has it fixed the streakcat problem. All that it has done is make it an issue encountered less often.

PUGS with no ECM cover still get smashed by LRMs and Streakcats.

[Naeron66]

Sarevos, on 22 December 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

also how did you miss that in your own written statement?

How do you keep missing the statements that clearly say that TT ECM does not prevent locks and does not reduce detection range? Even if LOS goes through an ECM bubble in TT it has no effect at all on someone detecting and firing LRMs at a target at maximum missile range.

MWO ECM has those 2 powerful features which are much better than anything that TT ECM did.

[Ghogiel]

Naeron66, on 23 December 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

PUGS with no ECM cover still get smashed by LRMs and Streakcats.

PUGS get smashed by <insert everything in the game ever>

[Naeron66]

Sarevos, on 22 December 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

are you aware of how radar and target acquisition work? targeting computers utilize data from sensors to acquire a useable signature and define a "target" no sesnors = no targeting data

And as the text says, TT ECM does not effect any other sensors or targeting other than the ones it specifically lists. It says what it affects and those are all systems that can be added on to a mech over and above its normal sensor and targeting equipment.

Edited by Naeron66, 23 December 2012 - 09:35 AM.

[Naeron66]

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

My thoughts on the constant whining about netcode and lagshields... LEARN TO AIM!!!
Most of the time when I am dead I watch people shooting several mech widths behind their targets...
You have to lead the target!!
It has nothing to do with netcode or anything else... it's just if you aren't hitting something you are a bad shot.

You have just given your own evidence that the Lagshield exists. The reason you see them shooting behind is because on their screen they are shooting at, or in front of, the target.

[Ghogiel]

Naeron66, on 23 December 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

You have just given your own evidence that the Lagshield exists. The reason you see them shooting behind is because on their screen they are shooting at, or in front of, the target.

One of the devs commented on this just the other day.
What you see in spectator isn't even what they might see on their screen. It's your own client rendering the scene, it's not his client rendering the scene.

So yeah it's not "there is no lag shield, L2P, I see you shooting thin air while spectating gglol noobs".

[BoomDog]

Let's keep in mind that ECM doesn't just stop Streak boats and LRM boats, it also hurts direct fire support builds.

For instance, I use a dual PPC build. I've got 2 MLs and an AC2 for close range, but I try to avoid that if possible. However, I've encountered many situations where my build was nullified by ECM. Many times I've come across a brawl at the 200 to 500 meter range, unfortunately, I have no way of telling friend from foe, unless I wade into the brawl where I won't be as helpful. ECM gives the brawler build a serious buff, but only if your team is the one with the most ECM. Also keep in mind that they can target me from any location with any weapon.

All of this for a 1.5 ton piece of equipment.

There's just too big of a strategic and tactical advantage granted to the team with the most ECM. Since I pug, I'm not guaranteed to have ECM unless I get an ECM mech, but is that really where we want the game to go? Rather than playing our prefered mechs, we devolve to playing the mech we have to play.

[Felix]

BoomDog, on 23 December 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

Let's keep in mind that ECM doesn't just stop Streak boats and LRM boats, it also hurts direct fire support builds.

For instance, I use a dual PPC build. I've got 2 MLs and an AC2 for close range, but I try to avoid that if possible. However, I've encountered many situations where my build was nullified by ECM. Many times I've come across a brawl at the 200 to 500 meter range, unfortunately, I have no way of telling friend from foe, unless I wade into the brawl where I won't be as helpful. ECM gives the brawler build a serious buff, but only if your team is the one with the most ECM. Also keep in mind that they can target me from any location with any weapon.

All of this for a 1.5 ton piece of equipment.

There's just too big of a strategic and tactical advantage granted to the team with the most ECM. Since I pug, I'm not guaranteed to have ECM unless I get an ECM mech, but is that really where we want the game to go? Rather than playing our prefered mechs, we devolve to playing the mech we have to play.

inb4 people tell you to learn to play

[Ghogiel]

Felix, on 23 December 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

inb4 people tell you to learn to play

just take ECM yourself.

SOLVED

[KingNobody]

The solution I would prefer is that ECM be split into the 3 devices that it was in TT, Guardian ECM, Angel ECM, and Null Sig (and make every 'mech able to use at least one, with the "ECM" 'mechs being able to carry all 3). This would promote more diversity on the battlefield.

[DocBach]

I think if the systems that ECM is suppose to block out, like NARC was more of a force, say that it actually kept a target lit up on radar even if LOS is lost, Guardian ECM defending against it would give it use without needing to add functions like stealth 'Mech like it has now.