195 replies to this topic

[Mack1]

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Wow it just is the same thing over and over... ECM works exactly as it used to in the previous Mechwarrior games it seems to me... I remember my displays flickering in MW3 and MW4 from ECM jamming.
Before ECM the primary tactic was to boat lrms and rain missiles without ever actually seeing an enemy mech. Kinda boring really. Streak cats ruled in close quarters and made lights drop fast.
Yes the game changed when ECM came online but the changes are for the better since now some tactics are actually required to win a game.
My thoughts on the constant whining about netcode and lagshields... LEARN TO AIM!!!
Most of the time when I am dead I watch people shooting several mech widths behind their targets...
You have to lead the target!!
It has nothing to do with netcode or anything else... it's just if you aren't hitting something you are a bad shot.

What a load or rubbish

Before ECM we had artillery guarding the flanks which stopped base rushing, you needed tactics to get past it. The Streak cats were hunting the small lights which in some cases were boating 6 ML. The rest of us were looking at ways to get near the enemy base without the LRM's getting us. It was tough, it was brutal and it required skill and tactics.

Now it requires an ECM!

[Bigamo]

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Wow it just is the same thing over and over... ECM works exactly as it used to in the previous Mechwarrior games it seems to me... I remember my displays flickering in MW3 and MW4 from ECM jamming.
Before ECM the primary tactic was to boat lrms and rain missiles without ever actually seeing an enemy mech. Kinda boring really. Streak cats ruled in close quarters and made lights drop fast.
Yes the game changed when ECM came online but the changes are for the better since now some tactics are actually required to win a game.
My thoughts on the constant whining about netcode and lagshields... LEARN TO AIM!!!
Most of the time when I am dead I watch people shooting several mech widths behind their targets...
You have to lead the target!!
It has nothing to do with netcode or anything else... it's just if you aren't hitting something you are a bad shot.

i understand your point, the thing is most gameplay problems will get better when tonnage based teams become a reality until then we must endure the heavy and assault spam.

[StalaggtIKE]

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

...ECM works exactly as it used to in the previous Mechwarrior games...
...works exactly as it used to in the previous Mechwarrior games...
...works exactly as it used to...

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 22 December 2012 - 03:18 PM.

[TopHatt]

In the past I have always been in a Clan while playing MW and the dynamic for setting up games was different since there were lobbies and whatnot to group up and find matches with other units.
There does need to be a weight matching mechanism for drops I think. But at this stage that might make it impossible to get matches since the likelyhood of another 8 man having the same drop weight as your group is very low and the game does not force a lance to choose a certain set of mechs.
Is MW a hard game? Yes it is. The opponents are not AI goons they are thinking people and some are very good at tearing up mechs
Whatever tools available people will try to come up with the most OP setup they can think of and they will share it with their friends and play
There is no unbeatable strategy though... and that is what makes this game so much fun.

[Dran]

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

My thoughts on the constant whining about netcode and lagshields... LEARN TO AIM!!!
Most of the time when I am dead I watch people shooting several mech widths behind their targets...
You have to lead the target!!
It has nothing to do with netcode or anything else... it's just if you aren't hitting something you are a bad shot.

Um... You do realize this is the exact thing people talk about when they say lag shield right? On their screen the mech is where they are shooting, but due to lag its further in front. I really wish I could show people how it actually is, or get people who dont believe lag shield exist to play at 200+ ping. Now I am not a bad player, I have taught myself how far ahead to shoot most of the time, the issue is due to ping fluctuations no matter of training or learning by me will really help when my ping changes from 200 to 250+ throughout a brawl.

Netcode is a separate issue to ECM however.

[Riddler9884]

Isnt there a thread on this here?

http://mwomercs.com/...-feedback-cont/

See My recomendation here

http://mwomercs.com/...nt/page__st__40

post 51

About the lag shield I believe that was left over from the crytek engine, search for lag issues with multiplayer in Crysis2.
If Crytek didn't do anything about it I don't expect that the people who licensed the engine would be able to fix it, work around it? Maybe....

[TopHatt]

Right Lagshooting is just a fact of life. There will always be varying lag in any online game and the amount to lead is found through practice. The difference in lead based on 50 ms is fairly small though. The main factor to leading a target is the targets speed and angle of movement relative to your position.
I just don't have a problem with ECM personally. But whatever the conditions are in the game...
winning just takes good teamwork

[Codejack]

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Wow it just is the same thing over and over... ECM works exactly as it used to in the previous Mechwarrior games it seems to me... I remember my displays flickering in MW3 and MW4 from ECM jamming.

I have MW4 installed on my computer. Right now. IT DID NO SUCH THING!

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Before ECM the primary tactic was to boat lrms and rain missiles without ever actually seeing an enemy mech. Kinda boring really.

Um, what game were you playing? Even a C4 carried energy weapons as backup, and NOBODY loaded 6 LRMs on an A1.

On the other hand, there was actually ranged combat other than gauss snipers.

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Streak cats ruled in close quarters and made lights drop fast.

OK, hold it right here: Why, pray tell, shouldn't a 65-ton mech that has sacrificed both sustained and alpha damage output, range, and direct-fire ability "make lights drop fast [sic]?"

IMO, that is exactly what it should do, and anyone who dies to one either plays badly or builds badly; 50 tons and up, you should be able to out-damage a streakcat; 40 tons and down, you should be able to outrun and/or find cover, and if there is no cover, why did you get that close in the first place?!

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

My thoughts on the constant whining about netcode and lagshields... LEARN TO AIM!!!

OK, my thoughts on streakcats: LEARN TO BUILD!!!

Or, go watch any of the videos about netcode lag and get embarrassed when you realize that even if it shows a hit on our screen, i.e. we aimed and lead properly according to the information presented to us, the server very well may disagree. How will "learning to aim" help that? Hitting a 10-inch circle instead of a 20-inch circle is meaningless if both of them are actually 20 feet BEHIND the enemy mech.

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Most of the time when I am dead I watch people shooting several mech widths behind their targets...
You have to lead the target!!
It has nothing to do with netcode or anything else... it's just if you aren't hitting something you are a bad shot.

Yea.... you're not seeing what they are seeing.

[Codejack]

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

I just don't have a problem with ECM personally. But whatever the conditions are in the game...
winning just takes good teamwork

Right, but your team isn't always pitted against another team, is it? Often, it is pitted against 8 complete strangers. Shouldn't they get to enjoy the game, too?

I'm not saying that teamwork shouldn't be rewarded, but it gave enough of an advantage without allowing one side to use entire weapons systems that the other side can't.

[TopHatt]

In MW3 and 4 the display does not flicker and reticle disapear when jammed by an enemy mech? Seem to remember it doing that...
In any event... ECM has been a feature in every iteration of MW.
Don't really want to argue... just saying my opinion

The most important aspect of this game is teamwork. If you wonder why pugs are so hard to win in it is because there is poor coordination and communication. Not because of the mechs or ECM

[TOGSolid]

Funny. The people crying about ECM also seem to spend a lot of time crying about how Streak Cats aren't OP anymore.

Lololololol?

Edited by TOGSolid, 22 December 2012 - 05:07 PM.

[Elkfire]

TOGSolid, on 22 December 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Funny. The people crying about ECM also seem to spend a lot of time crying about how Streak Cats aren't OP anymore.

Lololololol?

I dislike ECM and Streak Cats.

Both make this game a lot less fun because of how unreasonably powerful they make a single player on the battlefield.

[AlexWildeagle]

ECM does not work like any of the other MWs or BT.

That being said it has to counteract LRM boats and streakcats. Make these match BT and then they can make ECM match BT. Until that time ECM should stay as is.

[Elkfire]

AlexWildeagle, on 22 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

ECM does not work like any of the other MWs or BT.

That being said it has to counteract LRM boats and streakcats. Make these match BT and then they can make ECM match BT. Until that time ECM should stay as is.

I feel like a simple fix would be to require a new lock between each salvo, and have ECM significantly increase lock time, instead of being an all-but-literal invisibility bubble for the mech carrying it and any teammates around him.

I don't know how it works in the tabletop game, but that seems reasonable to me.

An additional fix for streaks was supposedly slated for sometime soon, wasn't it? Making it target different mech components instead of unerringly hitting the center torso, or something?

Edited by Elkfire, 22 December 2012 - 05:34 PM.

[Sahoj]

Netcode - when you are spectating and see someone consistently firing and aiming just behind a fast mech then it should be fairly obvious. It's much more common for people (via their screens) to excessively lead or fire directly at the fast mech.

[Codejack]

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

In MW3 and 4 the display does not flicker and reticle disapear when jammed by an enemy mech? Seem to remember it doing that...
In any event... ECM has been a feature in every iteration of MW.
Don't really want to argue... just saying my opinion

Oh, sorry, hard to get across patiently held frustration in text

No, I don't mind ECM, and I don't even mind it being different from previous games, it just shouldn't be quite so all-encompassing as it is now, is my point.

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

The most important aspect of this game is teamwork. If you wonder why pugs are so hard to win in it is because there is poor coordination and communication. Not because of the mechs or ECM

OK, again, I am not complaining about ECM because I am losing; I am complaining even though I am using it because I think that it unbalances the game.

[topgun505]

A couple possible fixes.

#1. Change the light ECM-capable platforms to be the Raven 4x and Commando 1B instead of the current units.

#2. Break the ECM equipment into 2 pieces of equipment. One a disrupt unit and one a Counter unit and they cannot toggle to the other mode. Then if a player wants both modes he has to invest a full 3 tons. Or make them mutually exclusive so you can't mount one of each on the same mech.

[SpiralRazor]

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Wow it just is the same thing over and over... ECM works exactly as it used to in the previous Mechwarrior games it seems to me... I remember my displays flickering in MW3 and MW4 from ECM jamming.
Before ECM the primary tactic was to boat lrms and rain missiles without ever actually seeing an enemy mech. Kinda boring really. Streak cats ruled in close quarters and made lights drop fast.
Yes the game changed when ECM came online but the changes are for the better since now some tactics are actually required to win a game.
My thoughts on the constant whining about netcode and lagshields... LEARN TO AIM!!!
Most of the time when I am dead I watch people shooting several mech widths behind their targets...
You have to lead the target!!
It has nothing to do with netcode or anything else... it's just if you aren't hitting something you are a bad shot.

No, no it does NOT bro..wow.....you never played the previous mechwarrior games then.

[Codejack]

Elkfire, on 22 December 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

I feel like a simple fix would be to require a new lock between each salvo, and have ECM significantly increase lock time, instead of being an all-but-literal invisibility bubble for the mech carrying it and any teammates around him.

I don't know how it works in the tabletop game, but that seems reasonable to me.

That has been suggested many times, and the same people who are still whinging about getting missiled to death shot it down. They want streaks removed from the game entirely.

Elkfire, on 22 December 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

An additional fix for streaks was supposedly slated for sometime soon, wasn't it? Making it target different mech components instead of unerringly hitting the center torso, or something?

They haven't done that for some time; they spread across at least the whole torso, arms if you are moving fast or torso-twisting, and legs if you are going uphill or are just above them. That's why you used to see streakcats with like 800 damage but 1 or 2 kills and just a couple of assists; a smart opponent has time to twist and turn and spread the damage out so you wind up stripping all of their armor off before you even take an arm.

Actually, a smart opponent would never get into range... streaks just explode in midair at 270m.

[SpiralRazor]

Bigamo, on 22 December 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

i understand your point, the thing is most gameplay problems will get better when tonnage based teams become a reality until then we must endure the heavy and assault spam.

They will NEVER NEVER have tonnage based teams... Paul himself said it was a bad balancing mechanic but it did spur them to make the Combat value system they are working on.

Forget tonnage based teams....He already basically said no.

TopHatt, on 22 December 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

In MW3 and 4 the display does not flicker and reticle disapear when jammed by an enemy mech? Seem to remember it doing that...
In any event... ECM has been a feature in every iteration of MW.
Don't really want to argue... just saying my opinion

The most important aspect of this game is teamwork. If you wonder why pugs are so hard to win in it is because there is poor coordination and communication. Not because of the mechs or ECM

It has, but its NEVER worked like this bro..never.... It reduced the range you could pick them up on sensors, which gave them a shield from LRMS...but never immunity.