157 replies to this topic

[Black Sunder]

Banditman, on 22 May 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

Keep in mind that Elite mechs are more than just a new paint job. They have improved abilities.

Wow way to misread and take it out of context. "Elite' in this case just refers to the mechs with different models and paint jobs. Elite in terms of pilot and mech progressions means that player has unlocked anything and everything for that mech. Nowhere does it say that these mechs being offered for those that purchase the 60 dollar package will be in any way better aside from the increased C-bills. Like WoT.

[Monky]

It seems like everyone will be able to access 'Elite' Mechs, and these are an 'early access with exclusive paintjob' setup and extra earning potential, which is fine. So long as matchmaking accounts for it, it passes muster.

The problem comes in when people can pay for an exclusive mech that is functionally different and otherwise unobtainable.

Edited by monky, 22 May 2012 - 03:44 PM.

[Banditman]

It wouldn't be functionally different if it was Elite. It would simply be advanced beyond what you would normally start with.

Each variant of a chassis must be raised up to Elite. Making each variant Elite improves it above and beyond it's starting abilities. It's not unavailable to everyone, it is simply more advanced than what most people will begin with. People WILL be able to catch up by investing in it.

I think this needs some clarification. If are not truly "Elite" mechs as defined by the developers that's a point that needs to be clarified by those who will be choosing between the two packages.

[jhempsrt4]

Can I buy 4 of the kits and get all 4 mechs?

[Gauge]

Banditman, on 22 May 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

It wouldn't be functionally different if it was Elite. It would simply be advanced beyond what you would normally start with.

Each variant of a chassis must be raised up to Elite. Making each variant Elite improves it above and beyond it's starting abilities. It's not unavailable to everyone, it is simply more advanced than what most people will begin with. People WILL be able to catch up by investing in it.

I think this needs some clarification. If are not truly "Elite" mechs as defined by the developers that's a point that needs to be clarified by those who will be choosing between the two packages.

The stuff you pointed to is Elite experience level, which in all likelihood is totally different from these Elite mechs. The Dev comment that they are 'different', not 'better' seems to cement this, as the same mech with boosted stats can't really be argued as just being 'different'.

[Morashtak]

My AC/10 will do 10 points of damage in a regular Mech. My AC/10 in my "Elite" Mech will still only do 10 points of damage.

Now then, my "Elite" spotter may see you a couple of seconds before your non-Elite spotter will but this will not affect damage output or taken.

An Elite Mech is just a Mech in a shiny wrapper with maybe a couple of HP moved around. I cannot break the Mech Lab construction rules with either an Elite Mech or a regular Mech.

[Tyzh]

Garth Erlam, on 22 May 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

These will not be vastly superior death machines - they will be on par with other variants; they are merely different not better.

In any given competitive environment "different" has a habit of sorting itself out in a way that one is generally regarded as better.

[Harlech]

Obviously they're all secret LAMs.

Ok but seriously I do have a question: How will xp earned IN an elite-founder mech work? Does it count vs the base model or is it in its own special tier or what?

Also it's entirely possible I'm not getting the concept of xp and chassis-specific trees right just putting that out there.

[Gauge]

Tyzh, on 22 May 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

In any given competitive environment "different" has a habit of sorting itself out in a way that one is generally regarded as better.

While I do agree with you, I think that the customization options of MWO will help to alleviate some of that. While one variant may be superior for a certain type of build, it would lack in some other area, making it a weaker option for another type of build.

Again though, that's only if it's done right, and it's entirely possible that they'll accidentally make a superior varient. I hope they don't though. I'm eager to see the differences in the MechLab though, hopefully before deciding to shell out any cash.

[Redshift2k5]

Ethicus, on 22 May 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

Is cosmetically different and extra c-bills not enough of a Different for people? thats pretty alright with me. Just sayin.
And since u get it first and at lvl 1, im pretty sure even if they only give you the prime varient hardpoints, you'll be quite contempt.

The new cosmetic modeling and paint job, along with the xp boost is plenty for me. I'm not asking for them to be special. BUT, Garth himself said they are on par with other variants, without elaborating on what those differences may be. His statement implies there are other changes 'on par with other variants', and is open to further speculation that they may in fact have some other different factors.

Garth Erlam, on 22 May 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

These will not be vastly superior death machines - they will be on par with other variants; they are merely different not better.

[Zakatak]

Banditman, on 22 May 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

Keep in mind that Elite mechs are more than just a new paint job. They have improved abilities.

I would hope not.

Maybe a 3% increase for Pilot Skills instead of 2.5% increase, but hopefully not more crits/hardpoints/armor.

[MaddMaxx]

Quote

"
$60 ELITE Founder's Package Includes:

• Exclusive custom "Founder's BattleMech." This 'Mech includes a lifetime, per-match C-Bill booster.
  
• $80 value of in-game currency* for in-game item purchases.
  
• Two-month premium account to MechWarrior Online at launch: Earn XP & C-Bills faster.
  
• Founder's Tag - sets your status apart from the crowd & get noticed in-game and on the forums.
  
• Early access to the game along with Founder's assets availability starts July 17th.

$30 VETERAN Founder's Package Includes:

• $40 value of in-game currency* for in-game item purchases.
  
• One-month premium account to MechWarrior Online at launch: Earn XP & C-Bills faster.
  
• Founder's Tag - sets your status apart from the crowd & get noticed in-game and on the forums.
  
• Early access to the game along with Founder's assets availability starts July 17th.

Not sure where the "Elite Mech thought comes from. You purchase an "Elite" or "Veteran" Founders Package. Bonuses gained are listed.

[Falcay Cormac]

i do like the look of them all

[Wolf Hreda]

FrostPaw, on 22 May 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

I think people are confusing two seperate uses of the term "Elite"

In one instance "Elite" refers to the rank experience on a piloted mech and the skills that rank unlocks for the mech.

In the other instance "Elite" refers to the name given to the most expensive pre purchase deal for the launch of mechwarrior online entitled the "Elite pack"

I think perhaps the confusion could be cleared up if the "Elite Pack" was renamed to something else.

Like the "Solaris Jock Pack." I would totally buy that. Granted I'll buy the Elite Pack anyway. But the "Solaris Jock Pack" sounds more fitting.

[SweetJackal]

Garth Erlam, on 22 May 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

These will not be vastly superior death machines - they will be on par with other variants; they are merely different not better.

Different, how? Just a different weapon loadout but the same hardpoints? Different hardpoints that match a different mech's layout (Like a jenner getting a raven's hardpoint setup)? Or will these mechs be 100% completely unique so that some builds on them won't be possible on any non premium mech?

One of these is pay to win because it limits the gameplay options of free players compaired to premium players. One of them will have me dropping all interest for the game and writing it off, as paying real money to expand flexibility to a degree beyond what free players can reach will mean that it can be optimized in a different way. When equal players face off it becomes the thinnest of advantages and mistakes that mark the winners and losers. When real money gives degrees of freedom and flexibility not reachable otherwise then real money becomes a thin advantage and sets those without at a thin disadvantage. Which is enough to win some games.

God, I know I can't make this sound nice as this is bloody sensitive to me. I want to play this game, I'm damn tempted by picking up the Elite package. But I need to know right now what direction this game is going with it's "Premium" mechs as I am not going to invest a dime into any game that will give me an advantage that free players can't get.

Edited by SuckyJack, 22 May 2012 - 04:42 PM.

[Belisarius1]

Garth Erlam, on 22 May 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

These will not be vastly superior death machines - they will be on par with other variants; they are merely different not better.

Not even day one and we have non-cosmetic cash only content that makes a real difference in game. We trusted you guys not to do this. I don't even care if I'm destroying any chance I have of getting into beta by not swooning all over you.

It's completely irrelevant whether you guys think they're superior or not. You can't know what balance will be like this early. If there are loadouts which will fit on elite 'mechs and not on others, you're flirting with pay to win no matter what you say.

Come on. It's not that hard. Sell convenience, sell cosmetics. Don't bloody well sell exclusive in-game abilities, even if you say they're not very good. That means nothing.

Edited by Belisarius†, 22 May 2012 - 04:50 PM.

[Psycho Tick]

MaddMaxx, on 22 May 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Not sure where the "Elite Mech thought comes from. You purchase an "Elite" or "Veteran" Founders Package. Bonuses gained are listed.

Actually, good catch, MaddMaxx.

People are grabbing the "Elite Mech" from the "ELITE Founder's Package," when, in fact, these "Elite Mechs" are "Founder's Mechs."
And the advantage of said Mechs is "a lifetime, per-match C-Bill booster" No more and no less. Well, and a badass makeover.


e.
You guys need to stop blowing such things out of proportion.
We have no info other than what is given, stop making so many assumptions about "unfair advantages."

Edited by Psycho Tick, 22 May 2012 - 04:48 PM.

[Samuel Maxwell]

I want to be able to just buy the Founder 'Mechs. I'd want anything without the EXP and C-Bill buffs because I'm probably too busy to utilize the effects over long periods of time, but this is very cool!

Edited by Samuel Maxwell, 22 May 2012 - 04:48 PM.

[Joe Mallad]

While the Atlas and Hunchback has some miner differences, I do like the looks of the new Jenner and Catapult. I really like the catapult the most as it REALLY looks a lot more like your classic pointed nosed Catapult.

[Tryg]

Well, based entirely on what has been stated officially, the 'differences' seem to be predominantly cosmetic with the gameplay difference being the extra c-bill gain for matches you pilot that mech in. They could potentially have different loadouts, but I expect the hard-point set up won't be entirely unique.

Thusfar the Devs have shown themselves to be aware of what they were doing. I think by now we can give them the benefit of the doubt and trust they won't drop the ball this far into it.