533 replies to this topic

[MadPanda]

Currently this is 8v8s:



Both teams posture for a while looking at where the other team is and then both teams charge. I've played several 8v8s and they are all the same. One big smackdown at some location of the map. Didn't bring 8 brawler mechs? Well guess what, you lost the game. The 8v8s arent "too hard", they are most boring gamemode. There is nothing tactical about the so called 'organized group fights'. One big smackdown and team with more or better brawlers win. Not fun at all if you ask me.

There really needs to be some sort of weight limit, or even go as far as forcing people to fill quotas of certain type of mechs. Example: 2 lights, 2 mediums, 2 heavies, 2 assaults. Someone is already typing "but i wanna play the mech i want, not be forced to pick something else", well, **** off man. You have that option now and the games are ****. Time for a change.

[Timelordwho]

Even if you're winning, 8v8s payout roughly 1/3 of r 4vX matches, due to all the camping.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

MadPanda, on 28 December 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

Currently this is 8v8s:



Both teams posture for a while looking at where the other team is and then both teams charge. I've played several 8v8s and they are all the same. One big smackdown at some location of the map. Didn't bring 8 brawler mechs? Well guess what, you lost the game. The 8v8s arent "too hard", they are most boring gamemode. There is nothing tactical about the so called 'organized group fights'. One big smackdown and team with more or better brawlers win. Not fun at all if you ask me.

There really needs to be some sort of weight limit, or even go as far as forcing people to fill quotas of certain type of mechs. Example: 2 lights, 2 mediums, 2 heavies, 2 assaults. Someone is already typing "but i wanna play the mech i want, not be forced to pick something else", well, **** off man. You have that option now and the games are ****. Time for a change.

Then your not playing the right 8v8's

[Kraven Kor]

Lyoto Machida, on 28 December 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

I say that anyone complaining about "premades pugstomping in 4 mans" should have to drop in 8 man queues for at least 3 hours straight...regardless of if they find a game or not.

Until they fulfill those 3 hours of gameplay, they won't be allowed to PUG again. Go see how fun it is for yourselves...

And it actually is fun... sometimes. We get a good match, against a team that is not just a cookie cutter build or tactic, actual good fights, etc.

And the ECM tactics are fun... sometimes. When both teams have 2-3 ECM mechs, each having enough to make the counter / disrupt minigame more of a melee and less "they have 5, we have 3, they can lock, we can't."

Some 8v8 matches my group is fail and we just get rolled over and over; and sometimes that is even fun and educational, so long as nobody gets bent out of shape over it. Silverhawks are pretty chill for the most part, as is FWLM but we have our hotheads and there are those moments that would have a Saint cussing.

But yeah - try to do 8v8 for a night, and only that. Go ahead. Then come back and tell us how we just love to pugstomp.

You do a few 8v8, and you will see those occasional good matches - listen to TS when those matches happen. Even when we lose, those matches have us lit up and congratulating the other team, etc. You lose to a "cheese team" and it can be frustrating. You take a "cheese team" and the matches end up very repetitive and victory doesn't even feel all that good. Plus, I hate the Raven with the fiery passion of 10,000 Suns but had to buy one so I could fill that role in 8v8 when needed (note: Nobody in Silverhawks told me to do so, nobody in SH would tell me to do so, I made the decision on my own to ensure I could help the team in that regard when nobody else was around to fill the role.)

No matter what happens, there will always be a few FOTM builds and tactics and the competitive teams will have to conform to those to some extent. But yes, right now, doing 8v8 can be a pain; for many, many reasons.

[dh crow]

MadPanda, on 28 December 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

Didn't bring 8 brawler mechs? Well guess what, you lost the game.

I usually see 5-6 brawler Atlases getting facerolled by people with a clue.

[MadPanda]

DV McKenna, on 28 December 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Then your not playing the right 8v8's

You trolling or care to explain? I'm playing the only 8v8 queue there is. And most times there is 0-2 teams playing it. So please direct me to the 8v8 games where it doesn't end in a huge brawl. Where do I find them?

[dh crow]

Get good

Join good unit

[Oderint dum Metuant]

MadPanda, on 28 December 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

You trolling or care to explain? I'm playing the only 8v8 queue there is. And most times there is 0-2 teams playing it. So please direct me to the 8v8 games where it doesn't end in a huge brawl. Where do I find them?

Find yourself a decent team that is beginner friendly, (ELP or Wolf Spiders are good for this) and join in a proper organized scrim between two teams, this is where you will find games that don't always just end in brawls, and this is where you will find what the competitive 8v8 games are like.

[Alaric the Arcane]

Fastidious, on 28 December 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

I don't want to play some gimped version of MWO where viable builds can be counted on one hand just so I can have success in competition. PGI needs to balance the game from competition level down to ensure strong variety and use of many mechs. The game at competitive levels needs a healthy complex metagame.

I played Counter-Strike competitively for years. There were only a handful of viable guns to use in competition. That didn't hamper the massive popularity of the game at all. It was even the most popular tournament/league game for a long time.

In Mechwarrior, some weapons are just better than others. Some mechs are just better than others. That doesn't weaken the competitive aspect of the game at all.

[Adridos]

Applying your logic here, people in Starcraft 2 would play just one faction some pro found a good strategy for (for instance, that Frenchie who owned Korean pros really hard with his roach build).

Running at the first sign of a different metagame is outright... you know what. Where is the adapt and overcome mentality? Nobody sees your stats or anything and you could make a 1000 failed games just to find a trick or composition that rolls over the current one. The fact there is no tonnage restriction was meant to boost this mentality. But most of you turn to worse crybabies than pugs you like to trash so much and call out nerfs and what not.

Edited by Adridos, 28 December 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[MadPanda]

DV McKenna, on 28 December 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Find yourself a decent team that is beginner friendly, (ELP or Wolf Spiders are good for this) and join in a proper organized scrim between two teams, this is where you will find games that don't always just end in brawls, and this is where you will find what the competitive 8v8 games are like.

What the hell are you talking about? The topic here is the current 8v8 queue, not some preset match between two clans. Get out of this forum and go play for a change. You are nothing but a forum warrior / troll. You got no clue what happens when you queue for the 8v8s.

[Barnaby Jones]

You guys can try to logically explain to the whiners how those of us who do group, choose not to play 8mans because they are not fun, but you are wasting your time.

They want to believe its skill based reasons we choose to avoid the 8 man, and no amount of logic will change their shortsighted "the world is out to get me" self absorbed justifications. They are (acting like) children, so treat them like it and tell them to go stand in the corner.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

MadPanda, on 28 December 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

What the hell are you talking about? The topic here is the current 8v8 queue, not some preset match between two clans. Get out of this forum and go play for a change. You are nothing but a forum warrior / troll. You got no clue what happens when you queue for the 8v8s.

What i am talking about feeds off of the 8v8 que.
And i somehow suspect i am less of a forum warrior than yourself...but ok!

[Asakara]

So one of the issues I see presented is that it is difficult to get and keep 8 people playing together.

I still believe the solution to this issue would be to implement factions, initially in a bare bones fashion.

Everyone must pick one of the following:
1) Be a part of one of the 5 houses (Kurita, Marik, etc..)
2) Be a part of a player run unit (DHB, ELP, Clan Snow Raven, etc..)
3) Be a part of the Lone Wolves faction

People who decide to be part of one of the houses only play against other houses. Max group size is 4. There is no minimum. If there are not enough people from your house to make an 8 man team, additional players will be pulled from the Lone Wolves faction to fill in the gaps.

People who decide to be a part of a player run unit only play against other player run units. Max group size is 8. Minimum group size is 2. If there are not enough people from your house to make an 8 man team, additional players will be pulled from the Lone Wolves faction to fill in the gaps.

People who decide to be a part of the Lone Wolves faction chose to be there (with possible XP and C-Bill incentives). They can not form a group. They will be pulled into any match which needs more people, which could be house vs house or player run unit vs player run unit, otherwise they just drop against each other.

This would:
1) Generally keep pugs vs pugs
2) Generally keep premades vs premades
3) Allow premades with less than 8 at any given moment to still immediately participate in 8 v 8 matches

Optionally, they could allow a person in a player run unit to flag themselves as a "free agent". When they do this they may not group and temporarily join the Lone Wolves faction (with their restrictions) so they can still do drops even if they have zero friends online.

Later on they can do the whole community warfare, loyalty points, system issued contracts / missions, etc..

My $0.02.

[Barnaby Jones]

Asakara, on 28 December 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

So one of the issues I see presented is that it is difficult to get and keep 8 people playing together.

I still believe the solution to this issue would be to implement factions, initially in a bare bones fashion.

Everyone must pick one of the following:
1) Be a part of one of the 5 houses (Kurita, Marik, etc..)
2) Be a part of a player run unit (DHB, ELP, Clan Snow Raven, etc..)
3) Be a part of the Lone Wolves faction

People who decide to be part of one of the houses only play against other houses. Max group size is 4. There is no minimum. If there are not enough people from your house to make an 8 man team, additional players will be pulled from the Lone Wolves faction to fill in the gaps.

People who decide to be a part of a player run unit only play against other player run units. Max group size is 8. Minimum group size is 2. If there are not enough people from your house to make an 8 man team, additional players will be pulled from the Lone Wolves faction to fill in the gaps.

People who decide to be a part of the Lone Wolves faction chose to be there (with possible XP and C-Bill incentives). They can not form a group. They will be pulled into any match which needs more people, which could be house vs house or player run unit vs player run unit, otherwise they just drop against each other.

This would:
1) Generally keep pugs vs pugs
2) Generally keep premades vs premades
3) Allow premades with less than 8 at any given moment to still immediately participate in 8 v 8 matches

Optionally, they could allow a person in a player run unit to flag themselves as a "free agent". When they do this they may not group and temporarily join the Lone Wolves faction (with their restrictions) so they can still do drops even if they have zero friends online.

Later on they can do the whole community warfare, loyalty points, system issued contracts / missions, etc..

My $0.02.

How would you fill a 7 man group if all the lone wolves decided they wanted to go play in the pug only que?

IE 7 + X = 8

Edited by Barnaby Jones, 28 December 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[Barnaby Jones]

Or, more to the point, how do you incentivize the solo dropping in group que to nsure that you have enough players to prevent "match not found" from being the norm?

[Sean von Steinike]

Skwisgaar Skwigelf, on 28 December 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

I'll echo what has been said previously, the last time I tried with some of my guys every match was 2-3 Raven/5-6 Atlas all with ECM. That gets very boring so now we pretty much run 4-man groups where there is at least some variety.

Because beating PUGs to pulp never gets dull right?

[Barnaby Jones]

Sean von Steinike, on 28 December 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

Because beating PUGs to pulp never gets dull right?

Go stand in the corner.

You can come out when you have read ALL the posts in this thread.

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

Sean von Steinike, on 28 December 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

Because beating PUGs to pulp never gets dull right?

I never said I win every match

But it is nice to be able to pull out a Dragon or Hunchback and know that I'm not automatically out-massed by 40 or 50 tons.

[Asakara]

Barnaby Jones, on 28 December 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

How would you fill a 7 man group if all the lone wolves decided they wanted to go play in the pug only que?

IE 7 + X = 8

Lone Wolves do not get to chose which queue they drop in. When they hit launch the system decides how best to assign them.

Barnaby Jones, on 28 December 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

Or, more to the point, how do you incentivize the solo dropping in group que to nsure that you have enough players to prevent "match not found" from being the norm?

Asakara, on 28 December 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

...
People who decide to be a part of the Lone Wolves faction chose to be there (with possible XP and C-Bill incentives).
...

Edited by Asakara, 28 December 2012 - 02:39 PM.