152 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Its the large torso. Makes em too easy to kill.

All assault mechs have that problem. In tabletop both light mechs and assault mechs have the same exact chance of getting hit in the center torso (about 20%). But in MWO the CT on assaults gets hit way more than 20%. The problem is its only armored to handle getting hit 20% of the time (since it uses tabletop armor values), so when when it gets hit way more than 20% of the time it ends up being severely under-armored. That's why light mechs can outsurvive assault mechs right now, which is completely wrong. Because not only are light mechs incredibly lag-shielded but the chance of hitting their critical locations like CT is significantly lower than on assault mechs.

To help resolve that issue, Assault mechs should get a skill or module that gives damage reduction to the center torso.And actually every mech class should have a unique skill tree anyway. Like assault mechs should get damage reduction/tanky skills, heavy mechs should get a mix of different skills, medium mechs should get hit-and-run/skirmisher skills, and lights should get scout/harasser skills. Its really counter-intuitive that all mech classes have the same skill tree when theyre not intended to perform the same roles.

As for the Awesome, extra module slots could balance it out, provided modules are actually useful at some point. The Awesomes get like 2-3 module slots while all the Stalkers only get 1. The problem right now is that the modules are awful for assaults and do nothing useful for them.

Edited by Khobai, 03 January 2013 - 09:12 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

My Awesomes are all either really hard to kill and can kill everything in sight, or really easy to kill but can kill everything in sight much faster.
I did a couple of duo AWS drops with someone in my unit recently, both of us in brawler Awesomes, we won nearly all of those with an average score of 8-2. That was his first day in an Awesome, by the way.

[JimSuperBleeder]

I always found me disliking him because I see a strong resemblance to Strong Mad.

[stemnin]

What's going to happen if I ram a bigger or smaller mech @ 86kph when collision is going to be put back in?

[Lightfoot]

Aldon, on 03 January 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

The top engine for the normal awesome should be a 310 instead of a 290. That would balance it out.

The 9M Awesome is a killing machine if built correctly and piloted well. The 8Q can be a nasty ****** if the pilot is a good shot.

The learning curve on running an awesome without getting embarrassed is higher than the other 2 assaults.

I mastered the Awesome twice in the closed beta. I had them all, 9M included. All customized beauties waiting for DHS 2.0 to arrive so I could be as much of a challenge as all the other mechs.

And then, suddenly, DHS 2.0 became DHS 1.4 and many apologies were made, but the Awesome had been killed. Doomed to remain the nerfy-fat-medium-pulse-laser-boat-that-flies-apart. The new NFMPLBTFA mech.

Anyway, I am an Awesome double master and more, probably close to a 4x master. And the Awesome does not compete with the other mechs. As soon as I dropped the Awesome my K/D ratio soared into positive numbers. It didn't matter what mech I piloted, just so long as it was not the Awesome. Sadly, I started testing the Awesome again with the faster PPC. Oh well, beta testers can't be concerned about stats.

Edited by Lightfoot, 03 January 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[Solis Obscuri]

The nice thing I've always liked about 80 tonners is that they are a bridge between the firepower and survivability I appreciate in an assault chassis, and the speed, maneuvering capabilities, and overall flexibility I like in the heavy 'mechs. I was really psyched to see the Awesome redesign come out, but I've always found it a bit sluggish and disappointing in gameplay, and I really haven't found any reason to take one over a heavier assault or a more agile heavy. I'd like it more if they made it a little more nimble, a slightly smaller target, or at least let it have a 1.33 engine size upgrade...

[v4skunk]

Lightfoot, on 03 January 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

So of course you are running the 3x ERPPCs? No? Mostly Medium Pulse Lasers? Right, my point exactly. So far from the Canon Awesome it's an absurdity.

lol I use srm6 and erppc in the arms and 3large lasers...

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

I am running a 9M with 3 PPC (not ERPPC) and either 3 streaks or 3 MPL for close defence. It goes something like 70 kph (IIRC) with the speed tweak. It's a real blast and I can do almost as well in it as I can in an Atlas, but the increased speed and agility over the Atlas makes it a lot more fun to use. The three PPCs put out as much damage as twin Gauss, but have no ammo worries and the heat is actually quite manageable. It works best by engaging from beyond 300 m so as to avoid the SRM blizzard. The speed is certainly useful in controlling engagement range against plodding Stalkers and the pin-point damage lets you blow the ears off Catapults with a couple of shots at long range if they are sat on the horizon and you can still get back under cover before the LRM response arrives. Basically, it plays like a large and fast heavy rather than a turret.

I've been surprised by how little the XL engine effects the survivability. I think most people just aim CT and don't think to take out a side torso instead and the longer engagement ranges perhaps mean most people can hit you but not be too selective as to where.

If I can manage it, I might swap the 3 MPLs for MLs (i.e., 6 tons -> 3 tons) and put in a bigger engine. If the ERPPC gets a heat reduction, then this could become quite a useful build.

[themoob]

Stalkers and Atlases are more "buy mech, load cheese build, click to win". Anyone without skill can do a decent job in them.

But every now and then I see Awesome pilots, and they usually dominate the battlefield. Seems to just take a lot more care and piloting.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Remember, there is no Awesome hero mech because all Awesome drivers are already heroes.

[Tice Daurus]

Ahem...seeing as I am an 'Awesome' mech expert...( I pilot these almost constantly )

What's been said here for the most part has been true. The Awesome is underrated. Remember it's an 80-ton Assault. It's the lowest Assault rating. Thus while it has some advantages with arms and torso turning, it's speed for the 8 class mechs are woefully underrated. At best, the mech can only go 56kph without speed tweak with a 290 engine. To up it to a +1MP rating, you'd need a 320 engine in it. Now I agree, it should not be faster than a Charger. The Charger was meant to be the fast scout Assault with a 400 engine in it. But it still should be at least able to be upgradeable to at least a 320, and not handicap it to a 290 engine. That's just wrong. I've long advocated to at least boost the Awesome up to no higher than a 325 at best. Allow it to at least get up to 64-65 without the speed tweak.

DHS in it's current form is also not where I would LIKE it to be. If it's DHS, it should be DHS across the board. However...the DEV's did say that PPC's and ER PPC's should be getting some love soon, where they would be dropped in heat levels to better balance the game (8 for PPC and I think 12 for ER PPC). Plus they will also get getting static HUD disruption capabilities to effect HUD, targeting computers, and possibly electronics, like BAP, NARC, TAG, and ECM.

When this stuff comes into play soon, you'll see a lot of people running more Awesomes.

Now...the 9M is a decent mech. It's quick, it's nasty, and it's speed makes it brutally effective as a medium and heavy hunter. I've face melted many a medium or heavy mech with my 9M. But you have to understand the role for what it was meant to be. It's original role was meant to be a direct fire support mech from the backfield with it's PPC's or ERPPC's. It was never meant to be a brawler. It was made to be in the backfield, sniping away at massively long ranges with it's PPC's or ERPPC's and melt faces from long distances not brawl up close. Atlases are meant to be the up close brawlers. Not Awesomes.

And for the one person that said the Awesome has entirely too much back armor...you're correct. So my question to that person is...

Y U NO TRANSFER THE BACK ARMOR TO THE FRONT? (sans meme because I'm lazy) That's what I do. I take at least anywhere from 5-10 points from the back of the CT and transfer it to the front, and do the same for the right and left as well. That way I can work with taking damage from the front and I just make sure on the 9M that nothing gets behind me is all with my speed. I can quickly flank a Stalker with ease and shred it.

Remember each mech is different in it's applicational usage. But I do agree that the Awesome does need to get a bit more love on the engine. My two cents to recap...boost the engine to a 325 rating, but no higher. This plus the PPC/ERPPC changes soon to take place...you'll see the Awesome come back to life and be a formidable opponent.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 03 January 2013 - 01:26 PM.

[Pkunk]

I've been playing with a slightly modified version of the stock 9M with the intention of making is a brawler (380XL+ssrm+MLas or something). But I'm not sure if I'm gonna because I'm having so much fun with the current build. I'm running 3xERPPC with 3xMPLas with great succes. I love the versitility. I've had some great snipe matches and some great brawls.

Easily one of the most fun mechs and arguably one of the best I have now*.

* I have hunchies(SP, H and G) commandos(3A, 2D) cataphracts(3D, 4X, IM) Awesome(8Q) Atlas(D-DC)

[Strum Wealh]

As I noted in another thread, it is possible that we could potentially see a canon Hero 'Mech version of the Awesome in the near future...

[TVMA Doc]

Lightfoot, on 30 December 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

The Awesome has always been the the fattest target in MWO. Look how much tougher the Stalker is even. The Stalker rivals the Atlas in toughness as should the Awesome. The only difference should be in the armor amounts and BTW, the Atlas should clearly and by all balancing reason be the fattest target. Easy to hit, but for some reason the Awesome was made a very fat target and the Atlas teeny-tiny. We complained about this all through closed beta, but at that time they wanted the Awesome to remain Mr. Fats. Maybe the devs can be swayed now since the Awesome is totally out-gunned by the Stalkers.

The Awesome is not a Support Mech, it is classified as a "Vanguard Mech", leading the lance into battle.

Then there is the Awesome's energy-heavy loadouts in a game that has annointed Ballistics as the god-power. If the Awesome had just one Ballistic hardpoint there might be some loadout balance, but MWO is commited to TT loadouts of the 'Mechs.

Commited to TT except for double recharge rates and DHS 1.4 which is a double nerf to Energy weapons that overheat unrealistically fast from the 2x recharge and cool down at 60% of what they should because of DHS 1.4. Meanwhile Ballistics do not overheat and just slap in an extra 2 tons of ammo and you fire all mission long and never run dry. You don't need extra heatsinks if you have DHS with Ballistics so you are free to over-load extra little-great weapons like the Medium Laser.

All of these MWO elements hits the Awesome hard and squarely in the face. My advice to any Awesome pilots is switch to a Cataphract or even a Stalker and start experiencing the real MWO.


By the way I like the Awesome very much even though I no longer pilot one. Until DHS 1.4 was announed I had stuck with the Awesome attaining Master level twice.

Good points, although as people have stated previously in this thread, I find it ridiculously easy to sneak in behind a Stalker and shred them-even in a medium/heavy (haven't tried light yet). I can't say the same for either the Awesome or the Atlas. In fact, while and Atlas will quite often let me get a few more salvos into its rear armor before turning to face me and finish me off, the Awesome is even better at preventing flanking maneuvers.

Atlas seems to have an advantage in a full on face to face or large scrum, the Awesome has the advantage in trying to react to those pesky enemies that jump in behind you.

[Lightfoot]

The Awesome is NOT a support mech. People always resort to this line to explain the MWO Awesome's obvious weaknesses. Here is what the Awesome is:

"Technicron Manufacturing began production of the Awesome in 2665 to replace the STR-2C Striker. What they produced not only replaced the aging Striker, it became one of the more feared BattleMechs of all time. The Awesome is built around its impressive all energy based arsenal and heavy armor making it a highly independent and powerful assault 'Mech. Rugged and reliable, the Awesome is traditionally used in a vanguard role when penetrating enemy defenses. The Awesome's massive firepower also lends it to defensive actions, acting as a mobile turret when necessary. Because of its reliance on PPCs, the Awesome is able to act independently for extended periods of time."

"Rugged and reliable, the Awesome is traditionally used in a vanguard role when penetrating enemy defenses."

Vanguard. Not Support.

Anyway, nice they will cool down PPCs/ERPPCs, but that doesn't help the Awesome and it probably buffs the Stalker alot more.

I still say the Awesome was balanced for a game with DHS 2.0 and that game never arrived. The Stalker was balanced for the current game and does very well as an assault.

There is nothing wrong with rebalancing a mech in Beta, that's what Beta testing is for.

[Leimrey]

The only way for the Awesome to become viable is if they add heat dissipation or heat threshold bonuses to it. The awesome is meant to be an energy boating platform, unless we're talking about 8V or 8R variants, which are inferior to the stalker in their supposed missile boat and missile-energy mix roles and are absolutely hopeless, meant to be the laughing stock of the Assault class.

However, heat is already f*cked up in the game, so even if PGI adds these heat dissipation and threshold bonuses, the awesomes will still need the general heat or large energy weapons fix to make them viable, compared to Atlases and energy boating Stalkers (since they can carry additional SRMs or streaks).

You might say that price is a good balancing factor, but the awesomes are inferior even in this department, since the 9M awesome, which is arguably the best variant, costs more than any atlas variant to buy AND cost more to maintain due to a very expensive XL engine many 9M builds run.

When it comes to direct fire support, the Awesome's advantages (speed of the 9M is pretty much the only really meaningful advantage over the stalker and atlas; all other variants are completely inferior in every way) are just not enough to outweigh the massive profile size and armor disadvantages it has. Moreover, when compared to the stalker, the awesome's energy hardpoints are located lower on its profile, which forces the pilot to expose more of its profile when poptart sniping, except for when you want to use that one head mounted medium or small laser, which, frankly, is worthless alone.

Basically, the Awesome is doomed to be the laughing stock of the assault class, unless it gets some really exclusive treatment. Believe me, I have over 390k XP in my 3PPC/4LL+ML 9M, I know what I'm talking about. The only way to make the Awesome viable is to add additional AND exclusive heat threshold and dissipation related efficiencies OR make the current ones yield bigger bonuses.




Edit: sorry, was trying to figure out how image uploading from image hosting sites works.

Edited by Leimrey, 04 January 2013 - 11:46 AM.

[AvatarofWhat]

Awesome 9M is the best reason someone would choose awesomes over stalkers. 380 XL gives me space for 5 double heat sinks which in turn gives me space for endo steel which makes up most of the tonnage difference except im really fast have better torso twist, arms, and carry similar firepower. Downside is you are way more fragile, but good piloting can make up for that. After all you can outrun some mediums!

EDIT- At above post... shoulder large lasers...

Edited by AvatarofWhat, 04 January 2013 - 11:49 AM.

[Dakkath]

I definitely think that the hitboxes on the Awesome are a little "strange"; people seem to easily take you out quickly in these mechs. But with the PPC speed and coming balance changes to the heat it may reign supreme again. Also with the increased movement on fixing the netcode, I see this energy wielding beast becoming more and more viable. This IS my favorite mech out of the line-up so far.

[Leimrey]

AvatarofWhat, on 04 January 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Awesome 9M is the best reason someone would choose awesomes over stalkers. 380 XL gives me space for 5 double heat sinks which in turn gives me space for endo steel which makes up most of the tonnage difference except im really fast have better torso twist, arms, and carry similar firepower. Downside is you are way more fragile, but good piloting can make up for that. After all you can outrun some mediums!

EDIT- At above post... shoulder large lasers...

You can mount a maximum 21 DHS with a XL380 engine + Endo Steel structure and 23 tons of weapons:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6639625d624c3de

While a XL 370 allows you to mount 22 DHS wit 21 tons of weapons, which is exactly the weight of 3 PPCs:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...daa2da2d992e97b

The additional head mounted laser for self defense is nice, but I would take the additional DHS any day of the week, since I'm usually playing with a team with good Atlas "tanks".

At the same time, the 4 PPC stalker enjoys a significant armor advantage, smaller frontal profile (which is very important for a direct fire support mech), higher situated arm hardpoints (which allow it shoot 2 PPCs over a ridge almost without exposing itself), the ability to carry 4 PPCs instead of 3 AND the ability to carry double SRM4s for self defense. All of this for a speed disadvantage which isn't that important for a support mech and 2 less DHS.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...echlab#modified

The awesome is completely outmatched by the stalker as a direct fire support platform. There is no way around this and I'm not even talking about the Atlas RS which can carry 4 Large Lasers with 16 DHS and gauss.

Edited by Leimrey, 04 January 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[AvatarofWhat]

Leimrey, on 04 January 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

You can mount a maximum 21 DHS with a XL380 engine + Endo Steel structure and 23 tons of weapons:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6639625d624c3de

While a XL 370 allows you to mount 22 DHS wit 21 tons of weapons, which is exactly the weight of 3 PPCs:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...daa2da2d992e97b

The additional head mounted laser for self defense is nice, but I would take the additional DHS any day of the week, since I'm usually playing with a team with good Atlas "tanks".

At the same time, the 4 PPC stalker enjoys a significant armor advantage, smaller frontal profile (which is very important for a direct fire support mech), higher situated arm hardpoints (which allow it shoot 2 PPCs over a ridge almost without exposing itself), the ability to carry 4 PPCs instead of 3 AND the ability to carry double SRM4s for self defense. All of this for a speed disadvantage which isn't that important for a support mech and 2 less DHS.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...echlab#modified

The awesome is completely outmatched by the stalker as a direct fire support platform. There is no way around this and I'm not even talking about the Atlas RS which can carry 4 Large Lasers with 16 DHS and gauss.

Im not arguing that the stalker is a better fire support platform, I'm just saying that 9M is much more versatile. When I play it I'm constantly maneuvering to get in a good position to harass my foes. Trading long range shots with a fire support stalker is folly, you have to play to your advantages. My build uses 3 large lasers, 2 mediums, an srm4, and a srm 6. If I need to fight a srm+medium laser stalker I'll constantly move away and barrage with my large lasers, at least until its soft enough that i can move in a kill it in one alpha. If I'm fighting a 4 ppc stalker, I'm going to want to move in through cover, circle it to take advantage of its bad torso rotation and unleash my srms. The 9M is a much more flexible platform, if you fall into the enemy's rhythm then of course you are going to be at a disadvantage. A superior player can take advantage of this flexibility much more then a good stalker pilot can cover its weaknesses against a hard hitting, faster moving, awesome pilot of the same skill level.

TL;DR: dont engage the enemy on his own terms.

btw my comment about the torso lasers was just to show that you can snipe while no showing much of your profile if necessary, not that you should be trading shots with a stalker that way.

edit- larger center torso can be an advantage since it allows for an XL engine, something I would never put on a stalker due to its giant side torsos.

Edited by AvatarofWhat, 04 January 2013 - 12:51 PM.