75 replies to this topic

[Red squirrel]

Mikhalio, on 01 January 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Red,

Any further assaults are pretty moot at this point, unless they add omni-mech level boat laser/rifle points, or increase speed (they won't as it will go back to pre-speed nerf assault boating).

Only real advantage another assault would bring is if it

a) has more armor tank potential then a zombie-atlas
b.) has more boat slots for alpha strike builds
c.) has ECM, but is faster than an Atlas top speed.

If it does not have one or two of these things, it's DOA; and Atlas D-DC will still be the defacto choice for competitive matchplay.

I would add:

d) Has ballistics as it's main weapons

On the one had the Mauler can be a serious alpha striker (imagine a 4xUAC/5 Mauler)
But then not everything is about competitive gaming. It also is about fun - and a good pilot
can win even if he chooses the second or third strongest build.


Finally about c) I still await serious changes to the electronic warfare systems. So this month ECM rulez the filed, but who knows what next month brings.....

[Merky Merc]

MadCat Mk2 is probably the next assault we'll see in the timeline. And it even has ballistics to round out our assault selections.





I bring this message to you from the future.

[Mikhalio]

Red squirrel, on 01 January 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

I would add:

d) Has ballistics as it's main weapons

On the one had the Mauler can be a serious alpha striker (imagine a 4xUAC/5 Mauler)
But then not everything is about competitive gaming. It also is about fun - and a good pilot
can win even if he chooses the second or third strongest build.


Finally about c) I still await serious changes to the electronic warfare systems. So this month ECM rulez the filed, but who knows what next month brings.....

d.) ballistics as a main weapon group will likely not happen; currently the DPS volume you can launch with 3x AC10 Muromets is nearly triple what an Atlas can pump out over 1 burst period. Pulling in the Mauler would be excellent, but that would only lead to another whinefest for balancing ballistics for the burst-max potential vs. laser recharge times/heat build.

e.) ECW is pretty balanced in its current form, as it adds another metagame ontop of the current match-play. This forces players to group and work together. ie. players who specialize in ECCW, ECM. Snipers. Scouters. These same nerf ECW cries were heard in EVE when ECW was introduced, this is a good thing. It forces people to adapt and specialize vs. being 1-man-armies.

[Red squirrel]

verybad, on 01 January 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

I really don't think there will be any more IS mechs this year after the expected 5th IS Assault mech. They're gonna be gearing up for Clans for two reasons.
1. Because they'r expected this year.
2. Because they can make a lot of money with clan mechs this year. There is a huge part of the community that is drooling for clan mechs.

Nova (Black Hawk)

I always loved my Nova
But then I have completely no clue how they want to balance clans vs IS


Sometimes I hope PGI will surprise us: BTW mechs came out so slow because we secretly worked on these 16 Clan mechs so here you go

[Pariah Devalis]

Red squirrel, on 01 January 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

I always loved my Nova
But then I have completely no clue how they want to balance clans vs IS


Sometimes I hope PGI will surprise us: BTW mechs came out so slow because we secretly worked on these 16 Clan mechs so here you go

That would be a welcomed surprise. I think once PGI's team gets up to a normal game company's size of 100-200 people they will be able to pump out more content out at a ridiculous pace, as well as more effectively roll out bug fixes.

[CoolLew]

Red squirrel, on 01 January 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

I always loved my Nova

yeah, it's pretty cool, but doesn't it have like a near ZERO torso twist radius?

The Masakari is my fav Clan mech
I am reading the novel DRT right now, the Masakari is Jeremiah Roses mech

[Red squirrel]

Mikhalio, on 01 January 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

d.) ballistics as a main weapon group will likely not happen; currently the DPS volume you can launch with 3x AC10 Muromets is nearly triple what an Atlas can pump out over 1 burst period. Pulling in the Mauler would be excellent, but that would only lead to another whinefest for balancing ballistics for the burst-max potential vs. laser recharge times/heat build.

True - Actually if I had to call a name for the 5th Assault I'd say Zeus.

Mikhalio, on 01 January 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

e.) ECW is pretty balanced in its current form, as it adds another metagame ontop of the current match-play. This forces players to group and work together. ie. players who specialize in ECCW, ECM. Snipers. Scouters. These same nerf ECW cries were heard in EVE when ECW was introduced, this is a good thing. It forces people to adapt and specialize vs. being 1-man-armies.

Going a bit off-topic here:
I am not one of the people wanting ECM gone. I like the idea and the general mechanics.
I just do not like the implementation as a single 1.5t piece of equipment. I think the different effects (e.g. no missile lock, no target information, no Artemis, no NARC, no TAG, no BAP) should be distributed to different ECW devices so that there is a broader variety than RVN-3L COM-2D AS9-D-DC (give some love to the RVN-2X)

e.g. systems could build up heat (like the Null Sig Armor) or systems could use more crit slots and actually get destroyed during a fight. I've never seen an ECM destroyed during a fight.

But okay let's discuss this in another thread.

CoolLew, on 01 January 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

yeah, it's pretty cool, but doesn't it have like a near ZERO torso twist radius?

The Masakari is my fav Clan mech
I am reading the novel DRT right now, the Masakari is Jeremiah Roses mech

Yes but the jump jets make up for this - 12 ER med las

If you like the Masakari, I guess you can imitate it using the Stalker.

[verybad]

My overview pf this would be:
Mauler 90 tons- Most fun,possible inclusion(IMO), a very nice looking mech. Possible problems: Not 95 Tons, few variants. at this time.

Banshee: 95 tons, fills tonnage list. Possible Problems. Doesn't bring much to the table in terms of diversity of play. It's a more direct fire Atlas essentially, similiar in overall look.

Zeus 80 tons. Mixed hardpoints (carries a bit of each), An iconic Stener Mech. Possible problems Another 80 tonner(not a huge peoblem, there are doubles in other tonnage slots also)

Cyclops. 90 tons, a Command Mech Par Non. Similiar to the Atlas in weapons layout also. More mobile.

Victor. 80 Tons Similiar expected playstyle to Highlander, but more mobile, less buff.

Hatamoto-Chi 80 tons, Loads of variants Potential for making the Charger at the same time as they're based on the same chassis.The Charger is not a bad mech after it gets rebuilt with better tech. The Hatamoto Chi is a great mech though.

If there is a 5th Assault, I would be very surprised if it's not one of these mechs. I expect it will be either the Zeus, the Banshee, or the Mauler however. There are other Assault mechs availalbe at this time, but they're pretty much all very rare.

Pariah Devalis, on 01 January 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

That would be a welcomed surprise. I think once PGI's team gets up to a normal game company's size of 100-200 people they will be able to pump out more content out at a ridiculous pace, as well as more effectively roll out bug fixes.

100-200 is NOT a normal Game compaies size. That'sa BIG game compaies size.

Edited by verybad, 01 January 2013 - 03:38 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

OK, perhaps you are right with the 200 end of the spectrum. However, take Riot Games. They have around 75 employees at the moment. They can pump out one to two new playable character per month, but have difficulty producing new maps at the same time. Piranha has, what, closer to 50? Yet still manages to put out one mech per month, and has a couple maps almost ready for release? They have got to be straining themselves as it is, right now. That would be why they need to hire more people, as the link on the bottom of the screen seems to indicate they are attempting to do.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 01 January 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

The concept of having to buy each variant sucks. Charge however much you need to for a mech but let us use each variant with one purchase already. It sucks having to buy the same mech over and over again just to unlock skills and it's going to limit the number of mechs.

If this game would simply release a bunch of content the forums wouldn't be as congested with people mad because they would be busy trying out new things. They should release a mech and map every week. Do that and watch the active player count skyrocket.

[Red squirrel]

verybad, on 01 January 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

My overview pf this would be:
Mauler 90 tons- Most fun,possible inclusion(IMO), a very nice looking mech. Possible problems: Not 95 Tons, few variants. at this time.

Banshee: 95 tons, fills tonnage list. Possible Problems. Doesn't bring much to the table in terms of diversity of play. It's a more direct fire Atlas essentially, similiar in overall look.

Zeus 80 tons. Mixed hardpoints (carries a bit of each), An iconic Stener Mech. Possible problems Another 80 tonner(not a huge peoblem, there are doubles in other tonnage slots also)

Cyclops. 90 tons, a Command Mech Par Non. Similiar to the Atlas in weapons layout also. More mobile.

Victor. 80 Tons Similiar expected playstyle to Highlander, but more mobile, less buff.

Hatamoto-Chi 80 tons, Loads of variants Potential for making the Charger at the same time as they're based on the same chassis.The Charger is not a bad mech after it gets rebuilt with better tech. The Hatamoto Chi is a great mech though.

If there is a 5th Assault, I would be very surprised if it's not one of these mechs. I expect it will be either the Zeus, the Banshee, or the Mauler however. There are other Assault mechs availalbe at this time, but they're pretty much all very rare.

Great summary.

I like the HTM-27W with 1 ballistic hardpoints in each side torso and 1 energy hardpoint in each arm. I also very much would like to try a 5 smal las charger

I really don't expect the Cyclops and also the Banshee wouldn't be a great chioce. Really the only reason people are speculating about the Banshee is the tonange gap. But then we have 3 50t mechs and no 55t (Since all 55t 3050 mechs are crap IMHO). Also we should take into account that the Assault weight class includes 5 sizes (80 -100) unlike the other classes which only have 4. So why not just let there be a gap. I think it would suit the Atlas.

I also think Zeus and Victor are the most probable. But the Mauler would be (no discussion about this) the most fun choice!

[CoolLew]

Red squirrel, on 01 January 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

I also think Zeus and Victor are the most probable. But the Mauler would be (no discussion about this) the most fun choice!

any and all of these would be nice!

[WhiteRabbit]

or we could get the charger....and suddenly the awesome is not the arguably worst assault anymore

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Charger

[CoolLew]

WhiteRabbit, on 01 January 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

or we could get the charger....and suddenly the awesome is not the arguably worst assault anymore

oh yeah, terrible, didn't it only use small lasers?
however, later there were fairly decent versions, wasn't there? Jeremiah Rose was in a Charger that had LRMs and bigger lasers

[Keisuke Nagisa]

My money is on the Banshee as it is 95 Tons and it is one of the classic chassis from the era which they seem to be sticking to. That or a Zeus but thats same weight as an Awesome.

Edited by Keisuke Nagisa, 01 January 2013 - 04:28 PM.

[WhiteRabbit]

CoolLew, on 01 January 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

oh yeah, terrible, didn't it only use small lasers?
however, later there were fairly decent versions, wasn't there? Jeremiah Rose was in a Charger that had LRMs and bigger lasers

yeah i think he did.. according to sarna:

CGR-3K - House Kurita's 3K is an upgrade of the 1A9 that uses an XL engine to maintain the Charger's speed of 86.4 km/h. The 'Mech is armed with four Medium Pulse Lasers and an LRM-20 launcher with an Artemis IV fire control system. The Mech also has a jumping distance of up to one hundred and fifty meters. This variant was confirmed to have been deployed on An Ting in the War of 3039 and may have been what Davion forces initially dubbed the Charger II; however, descriptions of the Charger II suggest that it was more likely a LRM-equipped variant of the Hatamoto-Chi (presumably the -Kaze). BV (1.0) = 1,485, BV (2.0) = 1,656^[4]

nevertheless, i doubt that it could take out any other assault (without massive help)

[verybad]

WhiteRabbit, on 01 January 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

or we could get the charger....and suddenly the awesome is not the arguably worst assault anymore

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Charger

Considering how effective XL engined fast Awesomes were before the speed nerf happened in closed beta, I don't think you've completely thought that through...XL engined, laserboat Chargers would be called OP.

XL engined Charger with 6+ Medium lasers, lots of in engine double heatsinks, speed tweak, close to 90KPH...Endo, max armor...

They'd work.

Edited by verybad, 01 January 2013 - 04:28 PM.

[4b4dd0n]

Why not the annihilator? It gives us tons of ballistic hps and the tonnage to mount the big ones not only quad ac/2s -.-
The banshee is nothing special and in the current metagame it will be a victim. Same goes to the highlander, why should i chose a assault with jj? If i want a assault i want standing power and good alphas. The other aspects of a mech can i get from lights meds and heavys.
So we have currently 2 sucking assaults, atlas and awesome, and get 2 another ones... Only the ddc is a good variant. And the stalkers running very hot or they are big lrm/srm boats. Both we had before with the cat or awesome. In my eyes the assaults are currently up.
I would really love a mech like the pract which can mount some more ballistic weapons.
I hope we will get some other assaults not only the 5 for each tonnage.

Edited by 4b4dd0n, 01 January 2013 - 04:39 PM.

[verybad]

The Annhilator is able to carry 4 Gauss rifles, and at this time, is ONLY used by the Wolf Dragoons.

It's a one shot kill versus pretty much any mech. 2 shots pretty much guaranteed vers even Atlases with a good aim. It wouldn;t help gameplay, simply be an OP sniper.The Mauler limits it's ballistic capability by having them all in the torso.

I could see the Anni being added later, perhaps in an elite Mercs pack or something, but it doesn't fit the rest of the game at all.

Adding to the game isn't about making all other mechs previous because you think they "suck"

The game has to be balanced or diversity in play goes away, and then so do the players.

Edited by verybad, 01 January 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[WhiteRabbit]

verybad, on 01 January 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Considering how effective XL engined fast Awesomes were before the speed nerf happened in closed beta, I don't think you've completely thought that through...XL engined, laserboat Chargers would be called OP.

XL engined Charger with 6+ Medium lasers, lots of in engine double heatsinks, speed tweak, close to 90KPH...Endo, max armor...

They'd work.

within the current system they would be easy prey for any other mech... and even without the speed nerf they'd probably still be the weakest assault (just not by such a large margin) (though they might be good at hunting fast meds)

Edited by WhiteRabbit, 01 January 2013 - 04:43 PM.