159 replies to this topic

[Serapth]

Gorthaur, on 04 January 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Most of the clans I have played don't play 8v8 because it takes forever to get 8 people together on most nights. This is especially true with everyone doing stuff for the holidays.

Our clan just does sync drops when we have odd numbers so we can play together honestly. Like when we have 6 people and want to do some practice we drop with 2 groups of 3. And this is true for plenty of other clans we have played with.

So don't just lump all premades into being "farmers".

LOL... so you're not farmers, but instead sync droppers? Is that really what you were trying to say?

By the way, I am not painting all pre-mades with the same brush. I would imagine most are premades simply because they want to group with friends, I can appreciate that.

The problem is, it massively unbalances the game, and the premades that dismiss this as a problem are infuriating to those of us that are pugging and suffering as a result. Most premades should want the *problem* fixed too, simply to make the game more fun for everyone to play. Just as getting pugstomped over and over gets old, rolling over pugs gets just as boring, at least for me.

Edited by Serapth, 04 January 2013 - 03:45 PM.

[Gorthaur]

Serapth, on 04 January 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

LOL... so your not farmers, but instead sync droppers? Is that really what you were trying to say?

Like I said, we sync drop when we DON'T have 8 people on and we want to practice. Learn to read buddy.

Why do pugs find it so hard to understand teammates wanting to play in the same game together?

Edited by Gorthaur, 04 January 2013 - 03:47 PM.

[Serapth]

Gorthaur, on 04 January 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Learn to ready buddy.

Funny typo is funny.

Also, read my edited post.

[Faldrin]

Kraven Kor, on 04 January 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

If the lone wolves demanded no teams, and got their way, and the servers had to be shut off... they would still not acknowledge that it was their demands to nerf team play that caused it.

Works both ways.

And hyperbole is almost always untruthful.

The problem is no where has a PUG asked for all pre-made's to be stopped just a option for pugs to play pugs only.

Kraven Kor, on 04 January 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

Except that would be gamed something fierce unless said "user controlled match making" had zero rewards and did not affect (pad...) your stats.

I wish I had enough faith in humanity to think that the custom match making would not be abused to all hell, but I know better

This is true no matter what game I have ever played there has been massive amounts of the player base that will use any way they can to make them self look better, either from stat padding in a game with scoreboards, or exploits to level/gear farm as fast as possible.

Truth is there is a game type selector already some thing like that should be added along the lines of this.

Pug drop

1-4 team drop

8 vs 8 drop

[Gorthaur]

Quote

By the way, I am not painting all pre-mades with the same brush. I would imagine most are premades simply because they want to group with friends, I can appreciate that.

The problem is, it massively unbalances the game, and the premades that dismiss this as a problem are infuriating to those of us that are pugging and suffering as a result. Most premades should want the *problem* fixed too, simply to make the game more fun for everyone to play. Just as getting pugstomped over and over gets old, rolling over pugs gets just as boring, at least for me.

I understand it unbalances stuff but that isn't our fault. And even though we sync we miss the drops more often then we make them. And I think this is true for other sync droppers as well. So a lot of the time when people are complaining about fighting an 8 man they really just got stomped because they weren't playing well.

This "evil premade" trend is getting blown out of proportions and is usually spurred by the same players that rush in ahead of their team and die right away.

Edited by Gorthaur, 04 January 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[Raso]

What if it were easier for PUGers to join a team? What if all they had to do was enter a LFG chat lobby? What if they could do it all with out having to install a 3rd party program? Do you think that there would be less PUGers if it were, literally as easy as typing "Anyone need one more?" in the LFG lobby?

Rather than preventing PUGs from not playing with premades maybe we should of been doing this whole time was finding a better way to let PUGers form teams and find new friends with out having to jump through hoops. Just imagine if all of that time and energy put into segregating 8 man groups and creating 4 man teams was put into some in game lobby where you could actually meet people to deploy. It, like, almost makes sense, you know?

[Bushwick Bill]

I have not run in a premade for over 2 months, quite frankly it was too easy and no fun for me. As a pug player I have to acknowledge the problem is not with premade crews, except those that intentionally synch drop ( but those are very rare I believe.) The problem is PGI and their inability/ unwillingness to fix the match maker. As it is the team who gets dropped with the 4 man usually wins, rarely have I seen an equitable distribution of 4 mans in a match.

The fix is simple, make it so one and only one 4 man drops on each team or no 4 man on either team. The advantage of instant voice comms in a flowing tactical game is enormous. ELO, in my opinion , will only exacerbate the current issues with current match making. A high elo team with comms will fully exploit the advantage even vs high elo pugs, the ability to call tactics and switch focus instantly via voice comms is a huge advantage.

Players are playing the game within the system PGI provides, solo or group. PGI is to blame for current woes not fellow players.

[Gorthaur]

Raso, on 04 January 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

What if it were easier for PUGers to join a team? What if all they had to do was enter a LFG chat lobby? What if they could do it all with out having to install a 3rd party program? Do you think that there would be less PUGers if it were, literally as easy as typing "Anyone need one more?" in the LFG lobby?

Rather than preventing PUGs from not playing with premades maybe we should of been doing this whole time was finding a better way to let PUGers form teams and find new friends with out having to jump through hoops. Just imagine if all of that time and energy put into segregating 8 man groups and creating 4 man teams was put into some in game lobby where you could actually meet people to deploy. It, like, almost makes sense, you know?

Like this suggestion, I really wish we had a game room/lobby system like the gaming zone rooms.

[wintersborn]

zenstrata, on 04 January 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

The whole pug/premade topic is silly.

This is a team game. If you do not want to play and work together as a team, you are in the wrong game.

Do you realize how finacialy suicidal this statement is ? That is why this company did not state that, they are not that dumb.

If the game was not meant to be played solo or as a PUG then why was it designed so you can ?

If this company and the very small minority of players make it so that you can only play this game if you play it as a competitive Team ONLY Table Top Simulator then you will have a dismal failure.

Take one guess at why this game has a very small player base and a bad reputation ?

Edited by wintersborn, 04 January 2013 - 04:05 PM.

[Operant]

My group used to sync drop back when you could run only 4-man groups. Now that we have 8v8 there hasn't been any sync dropping from us. Sometimes we will play a 4-man group if we don't have enough for a full group.

I think most other groups are like us. Sync dropping is overblown and I don't think it happens that much anymore.

[Kraven Kor]

Serapth, on 04 January 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

Frankly, I cant fathom a reason why people wouldn't support adding a premade to each side of the match. The only argument that holds water is they enjoy pugstomping/stat padding.

Can you think of a valid reason to oppose such a suggestion? Besides, the difference is, the PuG side believe that things need to be changed. The majority of premades like the unbalanced status-quo.

Not all that many are honestly opposing it.

They are merely decrying it as the sole cause of all Pugstomps, because it isn't.

[Serapth]

Kraven Kor, on 04 January 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Not all that many are honestly opposing it.

They are merely decrying it as the sole cause of all Pugstomps, because it isn't.

It's a cause, and an easily fixed one. That is enough.

[Kraven Kor]

Faldrin, on 04 January 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

The problem is no where has a PUG asked for all pre-made's to be stopped just a option for pugs to play pugs only.

Not true.

There have been thread after thread (by admittedly a vocal minority) asking for teams to be disabled entirely. Others asking us "don't play in a team, you are ruining the game."

And again, when I PUG, and I'm not that great, I'm getting around a 50/50 win rate. So empirical evidence seems to support my opinion, or at least from my own experience.

I have seen more rage and insults from the "premades are the devil" types than the other way around; but again maybe that is just perception.

And mark my words - if they separate the Lone Wolves from the Premades, there will still be 8 to 0 stomps due to the nature of this game. You lose 1 or 2 mechs and it quickly becomes a domino effect.

Serapth, on 04 January 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

It's a cause, and an easily fixed one. That is enough.

If it were honestly that easy, I can't see why they haven't done it just to shut us up

I have a feeling there is more to this than we realize, and getting it to work correctly may not be such a simple thing given the actual variables in play (especially come ELO or whatever in Phase 3.)

[Rifter]

Im just going to leave this here for lack of a better place.




Keep it classy guys.

[Dirkdaring]

1. Place 1 4 man team on each side. If no other 4 man team is available after 2 minutes queue, place just 1.

2. Fill all other slots with PuG. If no 4 mans at all, fill all pug.

3. When a 4 man is launched, it will wait a random 1-30 seconds before placing in queue to avoid any 'accidental' sync-dropping from occurring.

4. 8 mans fight 8 mans.

Game fixed. Everyone is happy.

[Rifter]

Dirkdaring, on 04 January 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

1. Place 1 4 man team on each side. If no other 4 man team is available after 2 minutes queue, place just 1.

2. Fill all other slots with PuG. If no 4 mans at all, fill all pug.

3. When a 4 man is launched, it will wait a random 1-30 seconds before placing in queue to avoid any 'accidental' sync-dropping from occurring.

4. 8 mans fight 8 mans.

Game fixed. Everyone is happy.

I agree with this.

[Throat Punch]

Faldrin, on 04 January 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

Pug drop

1-4 team drop

8 vs 8 drop

I support this idea, just to see what boogieman the pugs come up with for losing then.

[DAoC]

Good Idea.

[Horned Bull]

Something I wrote in pretty much all freeborn vs trueborn threads:

1. We need team indicator. That would prevent pubs from blaming premades when they get outplayed (I remember a match when I felt like being pubstomped, but after it I looked at the score board. And you know what? Three people from my team did under 100 damage. It means there was probably no premade involved and I just got matched with newbs in trials. I doubt many of my pub friends would have such a second thought, instead they would be much more prone to blame the boogeyman).

2. No solo queue would hurt small groups and small clans. What if you have only 3 friends to play? Do you want to spend eternity in the "premade only" queue due to uneven numbers? No.

3. We need fair matchmaker. 1 4man party per side = fair. 1 3 man party for side = fair. two 4 man parties against full pubs = FAIL.

Edit:

4. I'm a pub.

Edited by Korm, 04 January 2013 - 04:31 PM.

[Serapth]

Kraven Kor, on 04 January 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

Not true.

There have been thread after thread (by admittedly a vocal minority) asking for teams to be disabled entirely. Others asking us "don't play in a team, you are ruining the game."

The number of threads I've seen like this ( ... I cant say I've seen a thread like this actually ) dwarf the Pugs are QQing threads by a ratio of about 10000 to 1. I mean you can always find a lunatic fringe, but they certainly arent a demographic.

Kraven Kor, on 04 January 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

And again, when I PUG, and I'm not that great, I'm getting around a 50/50 win rate. So empirical evidence seems to support my opinion, or at least from my own experience.

Seriously? I generally try to get a kill or two a match, if I do I consider myself having pulled my weight. That said, I would say about 40-50% of matches I am in are 8-0 routes, many are ones where the matchmaker screwed one side or the other and launches 8v7 or 8v6 or we have 1 or more person drop on connect and finally about 30-40% where it feels balanced ( taking into account pug banzai suicide idiots, etc ). A 50% win rate while pugging would be an astonishing accomplishment. That said, time of day really does seem to make a difference, so playing off prime hours ( as I do ) seems to magnify the issue.

Korm, on 04 January 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

1. We need team indicator. That would prevent pubs from blaming premades when they get outplayed

Or of course would validate what they've been saying all along...

I agree completely though, the fix is in making the matchmaker not suck. A fix that should be fairly trivial to implement.

Edited by Serapth, 04 January 2013 - 04:33 PM.