64 replies to this topic

[Havyek]

My piloting hasn't changed at all, however I have run around and gone "ohh shiat" and gone through a Stalker's crotch.

The only thing that I HATED about collisions were when garbage Dragon and Jenner pilots would simply load up on engine and run around knocking over other lights because they were too terribad to do anything else.

[CodeNameValtus]

von Bremerhaven, on 07 January 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

PS: Saying that people can't shoot straight with the current netcode is the same as saying someone drowned because he wasn't tough enough to hold his breath for 30 minutes.....

Except I do find myself constantly saying this to my merc corp on Ventrillo. I would be dead if their team were halfway decent shots with a laser/ballistic/missiles.

I constantly see people missing wide by 100's of meters at distance with lasers only to drag them to within 20m of the target before the beam shuts off. I don't see why the beam doesn't even partially hit me. I have 30ms latency pretty consistantly. I've also gotten into Gauss Rifle / Long range AC/5 fights. I'm constantly hitting my target, they can barely walk a bullet to where I am, it usually lands at my feet, or skipping off the water 10+m wide of me.

I can't be the only one that bends ballistics to miss my mech right?

[Orzorn]

I feel sorry for the once skilled light pilots, as now is almost impossible to discern who is good or bad. There once was a time when you could look on at a light as say "Wow, that guy is a total beast." You can usually tell when a guy is really bad, but anything past that starts to blend together in this mix because of netcode.

Hopefully they fix netcode, hitboxes on some mechs, and ECM and they can return to that and we can regain our sanity as our shots finally start landing again.

Edited by Orzorn, 07 January 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

CodeNameValtus, on 07 January 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

I constantly see people missing wide by 100's of meters at distance with lasers only to drag them to within 20m of the target before the beam shuts off. I don't see why the beam doesn't even partially hit me.

I think in their game they'e probably playing the laser over your mech/in front of it and wondering why on Earth it isn't taking any damage.

[SJ SCP Wolf]

The only people I know of that have problems killing lights in this game are forum posters. No one in or out of my clan that isn't terrible or hasn't learned to lag shoot has problems. Lights are going to be squishy food for fast heavy and medium builds.

Light's will need a survivability buff when the lag shield is gone.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 07 January 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

The only people I know of that have problems killing lights in this game are forum posters. No one in or out of my clan that isn't terrible or hasn't learned to lag shoot has problems.

Good for you.

[stjobe]

Wolfways, on 07 January 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Won't happen.

O ye of little faith...

[sycocys]

I really disagree with your belief that a good portion of the players (especially the ones who are most vocal imo) are not poor shots.

When I die I flip through and watch the other players and at least 50% of the time you'll see some of the most awful attempts at targeting whether it be with a laser or leading a cannon. Quite often I see people following dead behind an atlas and missing 4/5 shots which shouldn't even be possible.

Do agree that we will probably see less lights with the return of collision, but probably not much with the introduction of the new netcode. One thing I foresee if they do both right is a lot of alpha strike tks when someone gets excited at tripped up mechs.

[axeman]

Newsflash, what you see on spectator may not be what they see with regard to point of aim and latency. What you see is likely what the server sees or believes is happening.
Do some of you honestly believe that they are that far ahead of people in the complicated skill of 'moving the crosshair near the thing you want to die'? like shooting at things is actually hard? maybe just maybe somethings going wrong for these people beyond a skill discrepancy.

The hit resolution/lag targeting and whatever on lights is not working well at the moment and there's just flat out no denying it. I'm guessing the abundance of these 3L ravens running around with the exact same build are because everyone just think it looks so cool right...

[Galenit]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 07 January 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Light's will need a survivability buff when the lag shield is gone.

Why?

I played my 3L a lot, with ecm and the fotmplayers going to it from there jenners, i play it a lot less.
Hope that i can play it again more often when collision is back. Dont know if a new netcode will help me with my 160 ping.

The 3L is the ew mech, not a brawler.
It dont need a survivability buff, it needs piloting according to its role.
But that need also that a whole ew-build will be viable.

Edited by Galenit, 08 January 2013 - 02:08 AM.

[elbloom]

BDU Havoc, on 07 January 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

People BIT CH, whine, moan and complain now about all lights, the ONLY 'Mechs I have problems with right now are Ravens, and it's because of their crappy hit detection and not their speed or lag shield.

I can compensate for lag.
I can compensate for speed.
I cannot compensate for shots hitting but not registering.

Oh wow then you are the Master Psychic Warrior Online man, gratulations on that first !!!

Please don´t expect the large sane mass of non-psychic mechwarriors to follow yourself, though, please. I´d like to shoot onto stuff in my targeting reticule not some air molecules and look for a magical crosshair turning red while hitting some dirt.

thanks oh great master for your understanding !

[Eddrick]

Will some of the population shift from a Light Mech to a heavier weight class? Perhaps. It depends on the reason they where playing that Mech to begin with.

My personal point of view is at 4-8.5 frames per second and a consistant latency of 60-90ms (To me, it looks like everyone has framerate lag when I am spectating). So, what you see in a spectater view may not be exactly what they see. Lag, be it framrate or latency, can have a drastic differance on the point of view when spectating.

[sycocys]

Eddrick your going to see lower frames when viewing someone elses game from your location, should instantly about halve your ping - but if the average was people seeing 8 fps the game would be empty.

Also you are still seeing what is happening for them, just at a certain reduced speed - so you are still in many cases viewing some pretty poor shooting skill.. Sometimes you'll pop across the opposite, but not nearly often enough do you see much in the middle range. Just the perspective of someone that plays a fair bit, and quite often in pug drops.

[MustrumRidcully]

I really don't know how bad lag shield really is for the game. Maybe we overestimate its effect, but ... I don't know. Mechwarrior 3 and 4 did have better net code in that regard, didn't they? I don't think lights fared well in those games.

But I basicaly was only a single player game player, and that NPCs are easier to beat than players is normal.

[arkanis]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 January 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

MALICE is almost right here. Once the unfair advantages are corrected, Only the truly good Light Pilots will remain, and they will still deserve respect.

Because all the exploits light pilots enjoy I cannot tell good from bad, so I simply put them all in the "annoying troll" family, but once the devs get the problems sorted out be sure that I'll be the first to give credit to the skilled light pilots I might encounter.

[Taiji]

sycocys, on 07 January 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

New netcode and collision mechanics are in place and the inevitable nerf of ecm hits and skilled light pilots are still wrecking house?

Just wonder what people think about this. Before they removed collision my 2d was a miniature wrecking ball without packing streaks and no ecm protection what so ever. I still haven't put ecm or any modules on it and usually still devour several mechs with it. The 3L is a proper monster right now. And with a bit of luck on the drop I can still run my jenner's 6 lasers through the back of lrm boats.

What do you think will be the next step to nerf these guys out when people who still can't shoot straight fuss about lights being too powerful? I understand the netcode doesn't help matters out right now, but light pilots will continue to be a force even when it's cleaned up, more so in pug drops where they have the instant advantage of dealing with unorganized tactics, but I'm willing to bet a team of lights in 8v8 will still be a crazy challenge.

Collisions were in when I killed the whole enemy team in a Jenner.

And lights have been quite OP since collisions were thankfully removed for being awful.

If the netcode+firedelay is ever fixed sufficiently then lights will no longer be OP even if collisions stay out.

In fact it looks to me like they might need a buff once the kinks are ironed out.

Edited by Taiji, 08 January 2013 - 05:05 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

arkanis, on 08 January 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

Because all the exploits light pilots enjoy I cannot tell good from bad, so I simply put them all in the "annoying troll" family, but once the devs get the problems sorted out be sure that I'll be the first to give credit to the skilled light pilots I might encounter.

I hear ya. But if you watch, there are Light Pilots who don't bounce off buildings and opponents. They are pinpoint in their laser shots, they use intelligent tactics. Murphy's has a few really good Light Pilots. One in particular scares the hel out of me! While he is just causally chatting away he is legging Atlas in seconds, delivering scouting reports like we would read a grocery list! he is an absolute machine. Happy beyond belief he is on our team!

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

sycocys, on 07 January 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

When I die I flip through and watch the other players and at least 50% of the time you'll see some of the most awful attempts at targeting whether it be with a laser or leading a cannon. Quite often I see people following dead behind an atlas and missing 4/5 shots which shouldn't even be possible.

It probably isn't possible. In their game they are seeing themselves hit their target. But when you watch as spectator you are seeing what the server thinks is really happening, which is often quite different. When you watch, notice how often laser fire appears to lag the target. It's not because the player is a numpty and can't move his crosshairs onto a target (not actually very difficult to do), it's because once he's done that, the server thinks the target is actually somewhere else altogether, usually a couple of mech lengths ahead of where the player sees it to be.

[Taiji]

RocketDog, on 08 January 2013 - 05:18 AM, said:

It probably isn't possible. In their game they are seeing themselves hit their target. But when you watch as spectator you are seeing what the server thinks is really happening, which is often quite different. When you watch, notice how often laser fire appears to lag the target. It's not because the player is a numpty and can't move his crosshairs onto a target (not actually very difficult to do), it's because once he's done that, the server thinks the target is actually somewhere else altogether, usually a couple of mech lengths ahead of where the player sees it to be.

Yeah, sometimes the target literally teleports out of the line of fire everytime I try to shoot it. The only way to mitigate it I've found is to fire constantly, but it obviously has it's 'limitations' (understating matters to the point of absurdity).

Edited by Taiji, 08 January 2013 - 05:26 AM.

[Havyek]

elbloom, on 08 January 2013 - 01:59 AM, said:

Oh wow then you are the Master Psychic Warrior Online man, gratulations on that first !!!

Please don´t expect the large sane mass of non-psychic mechwarriors to follow yourself, though, please. I´d like to shoot onto stuff in my targeting reticule not some air molecules and look for a magical crosshair turning red while hitting some dirt.

thanks oh great master for your understanding !

Right, because shooting at 1 point and doing no damage, then shooting slight further ahead and doing no damage, then shooting slightly further ahead again and doing damage is being "psychic".

It's called lag shooting. It's not rocket science.

If you find that you shoot ahead and do damage, and still want to shoot directly at the target and do no damage, that's your prerogative, but don't whine to me that you can't hit anything when you know how to deal with the problem, and refuse to do so.