114 replies to this topic

[Erik Hollister]

Are you kidding me? Do you, the devs, actually believe that there are players out there thinking "Man, TAG and NARC are SUCH good counters to ECM. I really should use them... but there just isn't enough incentive for me. Sure, they are effective and will allow me to actually hit the enemy with my missiles, maybe even giving my side the victory, but I just don't get any actual XP/Cash bonus from using them. I think I'll let it slide." Give me a break...

Cure the disease, don't treat the symptoms.

[Yokaiko]

Erik Hollister, on 09 January 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Are you kidding me? Do you, the devs, actually believe that there are players out there thinking "Man, TAG and NARC are SUCH good counters to ECM. I really should use them... but there just isn't enough incentive for me. Sure, they are effective and will allow me to actually hit the enemy with my missiles, maybe even giving my side the victory, but I just don't get any actual XP/Cash bonus from using them. I think I'll let it slide." Give me a break...

Cure the disease, don't treat the symptoms.

NARC is fully countered by ECM, as is TAG if the spotter is in an ECM bubble. Niether is an effective counter because ECM does way to much for absolutely no downside.

[Congzilla]

Yokaiko, on 09 January 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

NARC is fully countered by ECM, as is TAG if the spotter is in an ECM bubble. Niether is an effective counter because ECM does way to much for absolutely no downside.

So stay out of the ECM bubble, TAG has great range. NARC does need to be fixed.

[The Mecha Streisand]

But with the TAG buff, we got 750 meters range. The ECM bubble is 180 meters. The TAG area (0-750 meters, 360 degrees) is 1,766,250 or so square meters. Subtract the ECM effect area (101,700 or so), and that's still more than a MILLION square meters of space (assuming a perfectly flat surface, which doesn't exist in game) from which one may effectively TAG an ECM carrier. Potentially, even MORE space from which to TAG an ECM-covered mech in someone else's bubble. Roughly 94% of the area from which one may TAG a non-ECM mech may also be used to TAG an ECM mech.

Lesson: Tag from beyond 180 meters as a habit.

[Yokaiko]

Congzilla, on 09 January 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

So stay out of the ECM bubble, TAG has great range. NARC does need to be fixed.

OK so you have a Raven going +130kph how do you avoid it short of Cicada or Jenner?

Not to mention that if the beam drops off for like a millisecond missile lose lock....yeah still sucks range or not.

Edited by Yokaiko, 09 January 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[Flash Yoghurt]

Maybe they should apply this solution to ECM itself... Loose money and EXP for using it.

Yeah... This really is a stupid way to get somebody to use the equipment.

[Roughneck45]

Tag works great. I routinely do very well with my LRMs against any ECM opponenets.

Narc still sucks though.

[The Mecha Streisand]

Yokaiko, on 09 January 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

OK so you have a Raven going +130kph how do you avoid it short of Cicada or Jenner?

Not to mention that if the beam drops off for like a millisecond missile lose lock....yeah still sucks range or not.

I've seen LRMs do some AMAZING maneuvering. And again, you need a lock to launch, and a lock to hit. For the duration of the flight from launch to impact, lock is not necessary. So the time you need to TAG (counting backwards from impact) is a simple function of the distance the target mech will have moved during the Time-of-Flight (ToF). If it's an LRM Cat standing still and you're simply spotting counter-battery fire, you need that lock for literally a fraction of a second before impact. You might not need it at all. If the target is a Jenner running across the G line on Rivet City (intentional misspell) at speed, you're going to need to hold that lock a lot longer before splash.

I'd like to think that a REALLY good LRM boater will have a fair idea of the ToF for a given range, at least to a certain degree of accuracy. SO, just like with real-world indirect fire, let's set up a convention between our indirect fire support pilots and their spotters.

"Shot, over." -I have fired at the designated target.
"Splash, over." -You can expect the rounds I've fired to hit in approximately five(5) seconds.

Is that asking too much, for pilots to actually communicate meaningful information?

[Yokaiko]

30plusRAbbi, on 09 January 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

I've seen LRMs do some AMAZING maneuvering. And again, you need a lock to launch, and a lock to hit. For the duration of the flight from launch to impact, lock is not necessary. So the time you need to TAG (counting backwards from impact) is a simple function of the distance the target mech will have moved during the Time-of-Flight (ToF). If it's an LRM Cat standing still and you're simply spotting counter-battery fire, you need that lock for literally a fraction of a second before impact. You might not need it at all. If the target is a Jenner running across the G line on Rivet City (intentional misspell) at speed, you're going to need to hold that lock a lot longer before splash.

I'd like to think that a REALLY good LRM boater will have a fair idea of the ToF for a given range, at least to a certain degree of accuracy. SO, just like with real-world indirect fire, let's set up a convention between our indirect fire support pilots and their spotters.

"Shot, over." -I have fired at the designated target.
"Splash, over." -You can expect the rounds I've fired to hit in approximately five(5) seconds.

Is that asking too much, for pilots to actually communicate meaningful information?

You try that today? my missiles were losing heavies and landing behind them, even though I had reacquired lock.

[Hillslam]

ECM is fine. Whining is OP.

[Tennex]

there should be an ECM fix coming. They cannot possibly believe TAG and NARC can counter ECM

or that ECM is remotely fair in its current implementation

Edited by Tennex, 09 January 2013 - 08:01 AM.

[Ozric]

Work in progress.

[Shard Phoenix]

The ECM whines really have jumped the shark.

[MaddMaxx]

Yokaiko, on 09 January 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

OK so you have a Raven going +130kph how do you avoid it short of Cicada or Jenner?
Not to mention that if the beam drops off for like a millisecond missile lose lock....yeah still sucks range or not.

OK try this. Tag the guys, other than the ECM Mech, trying to hide inside the ECM bubble. They can't all possibly be going at +130KPH right?

The TAG duration is short but can be re-aquired anytime before the Missiles sent out arrive. If you took the time to locate and place the TAG on it, don't be so quick to let your target off the hook.

[M a y h e m]

Congzilla, on 09 January 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

So stay out of the ECM bubble, TAG has great range. NARC does need to be fixed.

The tonnage and ammo requirements for the mechs that are viable Narc mechs are
too much. No one wants to give up that tonnage, trade-off is too great.

[Yokaiko]

MaddMaxx, on 09 January 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

OK try this. Tag the guys, other than the ECM Mech, trying to hide inside the ECM bubble. They can't all possibly be going at +130KPH right?

The TAG duration is short but can be re-aquired anytime before the Missiles sent out arrive. If you took the time to locate and place the TAG on it, don't be so quick to let your target off the hook.

I don't I even went back and tried it again for that matter, missiles weren't requiring after a tag loss

[GODzillaGSPB]

You give up an energy slot for TAG and a missile slot for NARC and they don't even work inside of ECM. For ECM you give up no special weapon slot and most builds don't even have to sacrifice that many things. They still run like before with the ECM being the icing on the cake.

[hammerreborn]

Yokaiko, on 09 January 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

OK so you have a Raven going +130kph how do you avoid it short of Cicada or Jenner?

Not to mention that if the beam drops off for like a millisecond missile lose lock....yeah still sucks range or not.

Umm....how do you hit a raven going 130 KPH with LRMs if you're in his bubble. Nonsense post is nonsense.

Also theres the little fact that TAG lasts for 2 seconds after losing the beam, but you know, go ahead and shove that head up your *** and pretend that ECM is so OP and TAG is useless. I'll just continue spotting for my allies and laughing at all the exploded Atlases.

[Salticidae]

TAG is not effective against ECM, try keeping your TAG on a Raven/Cicada/Commanado doing over 120kph its near impossible.

The only counter to ECM is another mech with ECM

[StalaggtIKE]

MaddMaxx, on 09 January 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

OK try this. Tag the guys, other than the ECM Mech, trying to hide inside the ECM bubble. They can't all possibly be going at +130KPH right?

The TAG duration is short but can be re-aquired anytime before the Missiles sent out arrive. If you took the time to locate and place the TAG on it, don't be so quick to let your target off the hook.

My personal experience with being TAG'ed, they're getting a couple of AC20s to the head.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 09 January 2013 - 09:07 AM.