104 replies to this topic

[Adridos]

Thorn Hallis, on 12 January 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

How many stock variants are really worth playing? With the limited ammuntion the stock 'Mechs have I guess we would mostly see energy-heavy or energy-only 'Mechs running around all the time.

Well, I wouldn't be so sure. Energy heavy mechs like Swayback suffer greatly from the surrent heat model an dthere are som good ballistic mechs as well, altough most of them are still only on the to-do list (Jager, BJ, etc.).

[YellaChicken]

Panzer, no ones on about forcing anything. The idea is it's an 'option', not a removal of the mechlab. Tick box or something to play against stock only mechs. If you don't want it, don't tick it. It opens up the game to more players that way. The BT purists if you will. I'd prob still play the game most as it is now personally but once in a while I'd like to play against other stock mechs.

[MechyMcMecherson]

Doc Holliday, on 12 January 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

While we're on the topic of specialized gameplay modes, I'd also like to see no LRM, no ECM, and no light mech modes.

You're probably playing the wrong game.

[FrostPaw]

Two reasons really.

1) Because it would dilute the player base to a greater degree
2) Because it would make the act of earning a customizable battlemech less of a reward.

You should want to get out of the stock mechs, if getting out of them put you in a solely more competitive match mode where everyone stomped you with tricked out, upgraded mechs immediately then you would have nobody to be "better than". You would essentially move from an even battle "all stocks" to the bottom of the ladder of "all customs" when unlocking a custom mech is intended to be an advancement not a downgrade of advantage.

[Adridos]

FrostPaw, on 12 January 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

2) Because it would make the act of earning a customizable battlemech less of a reward.

And why is so?

Nobody's forcing you tp use the current best mech of them all that is the only one that peole found how to get maxiumum from. Currently a D-DC and Raven 3L with streaks are THE mechs acording to the forums. I have great doubts, but I've seen the era of every heavy being a gaussapult, every light being either the 6xSL Jenner, or his 4xSL/2xSSRM brother, or when every medium was a SL swayback running an XL engine.

Meanwhile, other people would be playing those completely same matches with "no diversity at all", just the ammount of varaints in the game minus the really horrible ones.

Edited by Adridos, 12 January 2013 - 05:56 AM.

[FrostPaw]

Adridos, on 12 January 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

And why is so?

Try reading the bit below what you quoted.

[Stormwolf]

I would play stock designs exclusively if we had a stock only mode.

I'm sick and tired of having to min max a design to even be able to play this game.

And while we are at it:
- Remove that zero crit/tonnage C3 system, people should only be able to share targeting data with C3 installed.
- Make ECM like in the TT, it would remove 99% of the problems people have with it. It should only take out things like NARC, C3, Artemis and BAP. Regular missile weapons are unaffected.
- And seriously? Conquest mode? Look up stuff like the Battle for Twycross and similar books for team vs team missions. I somehow can't picture Victor Steiner-Davion and Galen Cox parking their mechs next to a probe to beat their enemies.

[Adridos]

FrostPaw, on 12 January 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

Try reading the bit below what you quoted.

Sorry for my poor writing skills. What I meant to say was, is it really a problem?

[Yokaiko]

Stock mech only mode would suck due to the the broken heat mechanics and not close to enough ammo.

Viva la custom, or ****.

[Craftyman]

No thanks I enjoy fun.

[Joseph Mallan]

Braggart, on 11 January 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

Quite frankly the current state of the game is not battletech as most people know it. Been here for some time, playing off and on, hoping for the game to really come alive.

A table top game based around random dice rolls does not lend itself to a game that allows precision aiming with half a dozen of the same weapon that cripples a single armor location in an instant. The fact they are even thinking about table top in terms of design is simply stupid. There is simply no way to truly turn tabletop rules into realtime combat rules.

As a long time mechwarrior and battletech player and fan. This game is currently not the mechwarrior game we are looking for. This is just as sloppy as the last several mechwarrior games in terms of online. Which sadly, this is the only mode this game offers, and should be superior to every previous release of mechwarrior.

Yes, sure say its an open beta. Say whatever you want. It doesnt matter, they are currently willing to take our money, which means the game is officially launched, regardless of the title they want to give it.

There is some promise, but they have serious design issues to work out. I think Piranha really needs to look at some core designs and realize they made a few mistakes, and change them.

All that said, i think a stock only game mode would be worth playing until the other issues are worked out, and would be the only reason i would decide to stay. Provide real mechwarriors a game of their enjoyment, and those looking for the equivalent to mech assault their game.

Agree or not. Thats the great thing about opinions, this is simply mine, and might not represent others. I won't spend a dime on this game til some major flaws are fixed.

Playing 'Stock' turned out to be a refreshing way to have played TT after 24 years of playing only Modified chassis. At some point I think it would be great to do. But Heat has to be toned down first. As I have discussed a few time Mechs like the Awesome-9M should be capable of firing its 3 PPC 5 times before overheating on the 6th. A modified Stalker should be able to NEVER over heat when firing 2 Large Pulse lasers using 21 double sinks.

[Stormwolf]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 January 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Playing 'Stock' turned out to be a refreshing way to have played TT after 24 years of playing only Modified chassis. At some point I think it would be great to do. But Heat has to be toned down first. As I have discussed a few time Mechs like the Awesome-9M should be capable of firing its 3 PPC 5 times before overheating on the 6th. A modified Stalker should be able to NEVER over heat when firing 2 Large Pulse lasers using 21 double sinks.

Yeah, the devs altered every TT rule except for the 10 second cooldown. I didn't crunch the numbers, but I think that we would greatly benefit if they recalculated from 5 or 6 seconds.

[Yokaiko]

Stormwolf, on 12 January 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

Yeah, the devs altered every TT rule except for the 10 second cooldown. I didn't crunch the numbers, but I think that we would greatly benefit if they recalculated from 5 or 6 seconds.

10 second heatsink cycle yes

[Joseph Mallan]

5-6 would be good, Even at 4 seconds we would still get hot if we don't take a break from spamming lasers that cycle every 3 seconds.

[Darkaiser]

This is coming from a TT player from WAY back so take that for what it's worth:

1) Reset everything in the Beta. All spent MC and C-Bills are restored so players can spend them again. All modified Mech designs are deleted. This IS a Beta after all and it was stated in the Agreement that changes would be made and things might go away.

2) All players get stock Mechs for their first 25 matches. Gives them a chance to learn about heat, ammo and using the proper weapon for the proper job. All ECM and other electronics are removed from this point.

3) After 25 matches you are able to purchase your Mech (if you have the MC or C-Bills for it) and alter ONE hardpoint. When I say alter I mean that you can swap out the hardpoint AND move it to another location. Moving the hardpoint would cost 10% of the base chassis cost of the Mech. Swapping out engines and/or Endosteel armor would count as a choice as would DHS at this point. Sorry but the hardpoint system has distinct flaws and not being able to mount a Laser in an empty arm is stupid to me.

4) Any match credit accumulated by this point would count so if you've played 100 matches you are credited with your hardpoint changes etc. This keeps the testers who have been here since the beginning from losing all the time invested.

5) Opponents are rated by the type of gear they have and number of matches they've played. New guys are in the 'under 25 matches' crowd, recruits get 25 to 50 and so on. Everything after 100 matches is open field. However there would be a 'stock only' choice and a 'modified' choice.

6) Remove Missile Lock from LRMs unless the target has been hit with TAG or a NARC. This means that LRM boats have to expose themselves to enemy fire just like everyone else. Damage caused by LRMS with TAG or NARC would be granted to both the missile firer AND the pilot marking the target. No, you don't get double for using your own TAG...sorry. This encourages players to use these items.

7) ECM will have two modes: Missile Jam and Stealth. The former prevents missile lock outside of 200 meters, the latter makes the Mech tougher to see on the radar. ECM should not do both at the same time.

8) Mechs who do not move or fire gain no C-Bills or xp for the match to prevent farming. Disconnects are removed from the match after 5 minutes to prevent them from becoming free targets.

9) A new player's first exposure to the game should be a two-stage training field. The first is for movement, the second for weapons fire. The former would be a few minutes of stomping around trying to move to way points etc. The latter would involve shooting targets both moving and stationary. This would demonstrate the basics of the game without dropping the new guy into a real match where he has no clue what he's doing.

No, these changes will not make the game perfect. However I feel that they will give us a better base to work from. If the game launches as-is it will degenerate into a money-fest and casual players will leave in droves. I would really like to see this game succeed. However if the casual players are driven away after a handful of matches by battlefields covered with ECM, Hero Mechs and expensive spec-builds than it will die.

Oh, and for those that wave off the original TT Battletech and cry 'This isn't THAT game!' remember that many of the players here received their first exposure to Mechs there. MWO wouldn't exist if TT hadn't had such a huge following. Yes, the game has evolved, but I think it would have a much bigger following if an effort was made to keep the TT players in the game.

[Stormwolf]

Darkaiser, on 12 January 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

This is coming from a TT player from WAY back so take that for what it's worth:

6) Remove Missile Lock from LRMs unless the target has been hit with TAG or a NARC. This means that LRM boats have to expose themselves to enemy fire just like everyone else. Damage caused by LRMS with TAG or NARC would be granted to both the missile firer AND the pilot marking the target. No, you don't get double for using your own TAG...sorry. This encourages players to use these items.

They'd only need to remove the pseudo C3 system they have going on right now to fix this one.

[Joseph Mallan]

Stormwolf, on 12 January 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

They'd only need to remove the pseudo C3 system they have going on right now to fix this one.

You mean the forward observer for Fire Support? C3 won't have much affect on the game. We don't have range modifiers after all.

[FrostPaw]

Adridos, on 12 January 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

What I meant to say was, is it really a problem?

I suppose it really depends on your point of view, for me, I would want an incentive to leave stock mechs rather than a reason to stay. I see Stock vs Stock only matches as a reason to stay. Which coupled with the divide of the playerbase on that match mode as hurting the games future matchmaking.

If Stock vs Stock matches existed and I didn't feel I was losing people to play against, personally I wouldn't care too much if people were happy to always play that way. I'm just looking at what i think is good for the game rather than the individual.

[Adridos]

FrostPaw, on 12 January 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

I would want an incentive to leave stock mechs rather than a reason to stay. I see Stock vs Stock only matches as a reason to stay.

It's simple, really.

Stock mechs take a lot of skill to be used right. Heat is hard on you, you don't have massive speed, nor do your weapons do a 1 shot decapacitation when you use them right. If someone doesn't like the challenge and just opts for the heatless, armored and mech wrecking machines, there is nothing preventing him from doing so.

And everyone likes to make his own mech from time to time. It's not possible, because you get wrecked now in anything that doesn't exploit all the tonnage to the max now, but still.

When we'e at it, I think the stock armor values could also be used. That would easily solve the ammo and firepower problem.

[Aym]

They haven't figured out a good way to monetize stock mech only?
That or they don't want to split the community.