284 replies to this topic

[Cifu]

We need to separate the Clan lore and Clans in game-wise.

In the lore, i like the clans. Actually even if they think they are superior and übermensch compared to the Inner Sphere, actually they society flawed and rotten just as the IS. The (in most clans) strict cast system, the sometimes very unfair rules, etc.

In the other end, the clans have a very respectable honor code (as mentioned, with some issues), some very great ideas, and some really good mech design, plus a very advanced technology.

It's like the communism: the idea is great, but it's cannot be work, regardless how hard you try.

In game-wise, the clans become a nightmare. Very hard, if not impossible to force the players to follow the rules of the clan lore. They mech's are simply overpowered compare to the IS mech's in every term. Less bulkier Endo Steel chassis and Ferro-Fibrous armour, lighter, less bulkier equipments and weapons, etc.

So the qestion is how to balance the clans? If they won't do, the IS players march to the death in every battle. A bigger miracle needed for the IS to become winner. So the Clans has easy victory, thanks to the superior technology, while the IS players only experience the dirt.

So why not "hate" the clans in game-wise?

Edited by Cifu, 24 May 2012 - 11:41 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

we do NOT need to make that division. Sorry, that would break canon and lore and hurt the game. We do that to the clans, we MUST do so to the InnerSphere houses.

[William Canavi]

Rejarial Galatan, on 24 May 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

we are just as willing to tear you limb from limb in a knock down drag out fight face to face as you are. Explain to me freebirth how we find this distasteful or dishonorable?


last time i checked, that was a raid by some mercenary freeborn trash. A Wolf would call them out for a trial of possession thank you.

I don't think you read my post carefully enough.

[Rejarial Galatan]

We the Clans are MEANT to be a nightmare. We did not lose Star League Technology, because we ARE Star League INCARNATE.

[FoxiestFox]

It's times like this I pride myself on my Lone Fox method of fighting. I care little for Inner Sphere or Clanner strife, just who I believe is right and good in their actions. I would never disgrace myself by committing horrid acts for my clan or house.

[Aethon]

Xuvios, on 24 May 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

i typed a big long post bemoaning the social aspects, the gameplay interference, the fact that the clans were just a tool for the writers to unite the IS

but then i realized how worthless it is arguing with the folks who support a story mechanic that unfortunately became a fan favorite because it appeals to kiddies/teenagers/and other such gimme gimme gimme moron types who have no appreciation for sacrifice, tactics, and above all real ********* honor

but keep whining for your clans... keep whining for your madcat/timber wolf... keep whining for easy mode

We're not the ones whining about balance or 'easy mode' in a game we've never played. Also, if it was a tool the writers used to unite the Inner Sphere, why did it fail to do that? Writers are omniscient and omnipotent in their fiction.

It kind of pays to know what you're talking about; the things you say just scream "I've only read about the Clans from a biased IS point of view." Go read the Blood of Kerensky trilogy, for starters; that will do much to fill in the gaps for you.

Also, you are insufficiently angry.

[Hayden]

Suskis, on 24 May 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

I am a Battletech player and I almost never cared for lore. But the reason for I hate clan is that what had been a perfectly balanced game for many many years, then became an imbalanced game after Level 2 rules introduction. Gauss rifles, ER PPCS and AC20/ultra (not to mention RACs).. all this change everything for worse

+1 here. All the additional weapons piling on... it's just a turn off. I LOVE the "Classic" 3025 era, and care little for what follows.

[sladuh]

Cifu, on 24 May 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

So why not "hate" the clans in game-wise?

Because some people like a challenge...being the underdog and facing impossible odds....

Edited by sladuh, 24 May 2012 - 11:41 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

William Canavi, on 24 May 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

I don't think you read my post carefully enough.

nope. read you right. Oh, guess I should add in, just for you, we are not afraid to get in face to face and slug it out hand to hand with our mechs. Some of our mechs are BUILT for it.

[Krubarax]

Mercurial, on 24 May 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

Not exactly. The 'Wardens' invaded in part because they were saving humanity. The Crusaders did because it was their system, and the Sphere was just screwing it up. (Also somethingsomething genetically superior.)

The only Clan that was Warden at the start of the invasion were Clan Wolf.
And they did not choose to invade. they were practically *forced* to invade by the clan council, which at the time had a majority of Crusaders. They wanted to humiliate Clan Wolf as they were the most Warden-ish of all the clans.

Riptor, on 24 May 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Well lets see here....


In terms of game mechanics: They totaly broke the balance of the game when introduced. Their mechs where faster and could carry more weapons. Said weapons where lighter, caused more damage, had far far more range then their IS counterparts, and to top it off caused less heat buildup then the IS weapons.

They might be broken and OP if you look at it as a series of 1 on 1 fights.
Or if you just pile all your mechs at one end of the table, have the opponent do the same, and then just beat the shiet out of eachother.
But having one numerical/technological-superior side does not neccessarily have to break game mechanics.
It just means that YOU have to be more clever coming up with a scenario or mission.

Mercurial, on 24 May 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

The only reason I like Clan Wolf is they were apparently the only Clan who didn't feel the need to add an often silly mineral/random unrelated thing to their name. 'Clan DIAMOND SHARK! WE ARE SHARKS MADE OF DIAMONDS THAT IS SOMEHOW MORE THREATENING RIGHT?'

Jade Falcon at least rolled off the tongue. Smoke Jaguar was on the nose. Some of the other names--well, I guess good taste just isn't a priority in the gene pools.

No clan "needed to add" anything to their name.
They chose their names from existing animals, which they also chose as their totem animals.
It is really no more weird than "King Cobra", "Star Fish", "Archer Fish", "Spectral Bat", Pistol Shrimp", "Vampire Squid" and the list goes on..

Keep in mind that theese "alien" animals, some of which were natural, some of which were geneticly altered species brought from terra, had names that were made up in the 80's.
There were things that sounded much more cool back then, then they do now.
Like the Decepticon Transformer named "Thrust"

and BTW.

Who the FRAKK is "Korensky"?

[William Canavi]

Rejarial Galatan, on 24 May 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

nope. read you right. Oh, guess I should add in, just for you, we are not afraid to get in face to face and slug it out hand to hand with our mechs. Some of our mechs are BUILT for it.

You clearly didn't. You realize that going for the ToP is what I do every time? I don't dishonorably raid in the middle of the night. I meet JF on their terms. Besides, JF was attacking an IS planet at the time.

Edited by William Canavi, 24 May 2012 - 11:42 PM.

[Ramien]

In the end, I don't hate the Clans.

I pity them.

A trueborn member of the Clans will never know what it truly means to be a warrior, or a scientist, or whatever other castes they divide themselves into.
They are born warriors.
They are bred warriors.
They are trained from birth to be warriors.
Being a warrior is all they know.

We of the Inner Sphere choose to be warriors, and that makes all the difference.
If we're not under contract, we can retire at any time
Nobody would blame us.
Nobody would even have to know.
Only our own desire to keep piloting keeps us in the cockpit.
Our will drives us forward, instead of our traditions pushing us in some direction that we may as well call forward.

Some lucky Clan freebirths will understand this at least in part. A freebirth will have had to fight for their position, against a system that denies them based on their birth rather than considering their merits.

Edited by Ramien, 24 May 2012 - 11:44 PM.

[DireWolf307]

Aethon, on 24 May 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

We're not the ones whining about balance or 'easy mode' in a game we've never played. Also, if it was a tool the writers used to unite the Inner Sphere, why did it fail to do that? Writers are omniscient and omnipotent in their fiction.

It kind of pays to know what you're talking about; the things you say just scream "I've only read about the Clans from a biased IS point of view." Go read the Blood of Kerensky trilogy, for starters; that will do much to fill in the gaps for you.

Also, you are insufficiently angry.

Wait what?

It did unite the Inner Sphere. The Second Star League? Task Force Serpent? There was a whole lot of peace love and understanding among the Houses when the Clans posed a real threat. Obivously, once Smoke Jaguar was obliterated and the rest of the Clans pussed out, it certainly didn't last long and pretty soon the Word of Blake rose up and began the Jihad leading to the Dark Ages, but still, for awhile, the Inner Sphere certainly did unite as best they could.

Edited by DireWolf307, 24 May 2012 - 11:43 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

again, you are trying to compare what an IS MERCENARY did, not what a Clan does. Do make sure you make sure your comparisons are accurate.

[William Petersen]

Rejarial Galatan, on 24 May 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

We the Clans are MEANT to be a nightmare. We did not lose Star League Technology, because we ARE Star League INCARNATE.

Ah look, a pristine case of Clanner delusionalism. You are nothing like your vaunted Star League. The Star League was a free society. You enforce a cast system. You ostracize or kill anyone who would dare to speak against your "great founder", your "great society" or your "great father". I'm sure there's more but I'm tired, and that's more than enough damnation to dispel a rational mind of the idea that the Clans are anything like their ancestors.

[Vulpesveritas]

Rejarial Galatan, on 24 May 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

we are just as willing to tear you limb from limb in a knock down drag out fight face to face as you are. Explain to me freebirth how we find this distasteful or dishonorable?

Perhaps I am misinformed about the clans. But at the very least I could beat any of you at a game of chess or melee combat in a mech.
By the way, good luck trying to tear me limb from limb while your face is in the dirt clanner.

[Rejarial Galatan]

typical fear of the ignorance that comes from being a freeborn. You know not what we bring, you fear us, you fight us. Yield and you will see.

[Stormwolf]

There will always be Clan bashers, they have been around since TRO3050 got printed.

It is the reason I prefer to fight other Clan players and the Manei Domini.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Vulpesveritas, on 24 May 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

Perhaps I am misinformed about the clans. But at the very least I could beat any of you at a game of chess or melee combat in a mech.
By the way, good luck trying to tear me limb from limb while your face is in the dirt clanner.

I am a born warrior whose genetics hail from great warriors. War is my life, war is my duty, war is what I was BRED for. Meet me in a circle of equals and we will see who walks out alive.

[Aethon]

DireWolf307, on 24 May 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

Wait what?

It did unite the Inner Sphere. The Second Star League? Task Force Serpent? There was a whole lot of peace love and understanding among the Houses when the Clans posed a real threat. Obivously, once Smoke Jaguar was obliterated and the rest of the Clans pussed out, it certainly didn't last long and pretty soon the Word of Blake rose up and began the Jihad leading to the Dark Ages, but still, for awhile, the Inner Sphere certainly did unite as best they could.

Oh, sure, it worked. Temporarily.

FedCom Civil War, St. Ives War (or whatever it was called), Combine-Ghost Bear War, Jihad, and all sorts of smaller conflicts interspersed here and there. They even disbanded the Star League they had just re-created, lol.

I guess it united the IS more than anything else had, but my point was that it was temporary; if the Clans really were nothing more than a tool to unite the IS, one would think it would have worked better than it did.