47 replies to this topic

[Xigunder Blue]

In our good ole USA Constitution preamble it says 'all men are created equal'. That simply meant that we were all equal UNDER THE LAW! It certainly did not mean we were all equal in anything else, like, skill level in video games.

For example, how will balanced skill levels affect group organizations? Will your Commander have a 1st 'ELITE' company and the 'lesser' guys and gals stuck down at the bottom? "Hey you, skinny mechie wit de glasses, wait over there, somebody might pick you last!!!" Or will it be "High School Jocks and Nerds?" If you players grin and think that is fine with you then you might consider just how far this game will go in retaining members. We are not all created equal skilled at keyboard and hand/eye co-ordination. Segregating 'skill levels' is a road to nichedom and slide to game slo-death.

Maybe PGI want an EVE type niche game with a base player segment. We might see when the so-called ELO and CW are implemented. I for one will be waiting to see what 'direction' PGI will be taking. I invite your opinions (and flame if u like).

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Quote

[color=#959595] Will your Commander have a 1st 'ELITE' company and the 'lesser' guys and gals stuck down at the bottom?[/color]

Yes

[Heffay]

Xigunder Blue, on 14 January 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

Segregating 'skill levels' is a road to nichedom and slide to game slo-death.

[Canis Arctos]

In my opinion ELO or skillbased matchmaking is always bad.
I like to learn from people who are playing the game longer as me or to learn from peoples mistakes.

Maybe iam a bit to hardcore, but if you can´t compete with good players, suck it up get and get better or accept your place in the foodchain ( most people still thinking certain gameplay issues are the problem why they are doing bad. That is the reason why you can see all these whining ).

Another huge contra is that public ELO will cause to "skill racism" in the forum. Ppl with low ELO will be flamed like hell ( as we can see in other games ). So an opinion of a new/bad player won´t count anymore ( or way less ) in the eyes of the majority of the community. It allready started even with no public ELO/stats when you just looking at the people who are using their stats as signature ( but this happens too in every other game .. some people just have to show off at all costs )


The good part about ELO you don´t have to play with "noobs/newbies" if you are better as them.

well those are my 2cents iam oldfashioned .. learn/adapt or die.

As for clans ... you have casual cuddle clans or people who wana achieve something. Natural selection.

Edited by Canis Arctos, 14 January 2013 - 06:01 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Xigunder Blue, on 14 January 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

In our good ole USA Constitution preamble it says 'all men are created equal'. That simply meant that we were all equal UNDER THE LAW! It certainly did not mean we were all equal in anything else, like, skill level in video games.

...But not all players are living in the USA.

[Broceratops]

yes clearly LoL, WoW, SC2, and other games with matchmaking are all niche games which will fail any day now

[Havyek]

I've been against skill based matchmaking since it was implemented.
The only way to improve is play with/against players that are better than you and learn from them.
Not to come onto the forums and QQ about everything being OPed.

Ditch the matchmaker and build a lobby. Let us see what map we're dropping on and what chassis our team/enemy is dropping with.

[Vassago Rain]

Broceratops, on 14 January 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

yes clearly LoL, WoW, SC2, and other games with matchmaking are all niche games which will fail any day now

Bro, you and I don't know anything. The future is all about farmville and War Z.

Now come, let us go lift atlases together, while oiling our manly torsos.

[Xigunder Blue]

Canis Arctos, on 14 January 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

In my opinion ELO or skillbased matchmaking is always bad.
I like to learn from people who are playing the game longer as me or to learn from peoples mistakes.

Maybe iam a bit to hardcore, but if you can´t compete with good players, suck it up get and get better or accept your place in the foodchain ( most people still thinking certain gameplay issues are the problem why they are doing bad. That is the reason why you can see all these whining ).

Another huge contra is that public ELO will cause to "skill racism" in the forum. Ppl with low ELO will be flamed like hell ( as we can see in other games ). So an opinion of a new/bad player won´t count anymore ( or way less ) in the eyes of the majority of the community. It allready started even with no public ELO/stats when you just looking at the people who are using their stats as signature ( but this happens too in every other game .. some people just have to show off at all costs )


The good part about ELO you don´t have to play with "noobs/newbies" if you are better as them.

well those are my 2cents iam oldfashioned .. learn/adapt or die.

As for clans ... you have casual cuddle clans or people who wana achieve something. Natural selection.

I just want to comment on the 'learn/adapt or die' statement. Learn/adapt or put my money elsewhere is the actual fact of the matter. Ask PGI employees who want to keep their jobs. Not a shot at you, just a fact.

[Kaijin]

I imagine Elo will only be applied to PUG matches, and 8v8s will remain like the 'wild west'. So join a team if you want to spectate your betters. As far as PUG matches go, everyone wins. The team of absolute newbies is no longer getting steamrolled by a single veteran. The veterans are no longer saddled with the dead weight of the absolute newbies on their team.

Edited by Kaijin, 14 January 2013 - 06:16 AM.

[Noth]

Kaijin, on 14 January 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

I imagine Elo will only be applied to PUG matches, and 8v8s will remain like the 'wild west'. So join a team if you want to spectate your betters. As far as PUG matches go, everyone wins. The team of absolute newbies is no longer getting steamrolled by a single veteran. The veterans are no longer saddled with the dead weight of the absolute newbies on their team.

Elo will be applied to the 8v8 games as well. It will likely be done by either total elo of the team or average Elo.

[Tykelau]

WAT

OP, you are saying that new players should get stomped until they either quit or get good? Which option do you think most of them will take?

I can somewhat see some of your points even though I disagree, but I feel like you have lost track of what would be actually good for the game. Seems like you yourself have not learned/adapted to the way other people behave. This is not about emotion, just practicality and human nature. Ask yourself, what do I think most people want?

[Kaijin]

Noth, on 14 January 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Elo will be applied to the 8v8 games as well. It will likely be done by either total elo of the team or average Elo.

Average Elo would work, I suppose. In either case, the opportunity for newbies to learn from veterans will still exist, residing in organized team play.

[Heffay]

BDU Havoc, on 14 January 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

The only way to improve is play with/against players that are better than you and learn from them.

There is a huge range of skill levels. Learning what works at one level gets you to the next level. It's not like you have noobs vs pros, and you can't get to pro by fighting noobs.

Playing against better players is not the only way to get better.

[Xigunder Blue]

Tykelau, on 14 January 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

WAT

OP, you are saying that new players should get stomped until they either quit or get good? Which option do you think most of them will take?

I can somewhat see some of your points even though I disagree, but I feel like you have lost track of what would be actually good for the game. Seems like you yourself have not learned/adapted to the way other people behave. This is not about emotion, just practicality and human nature. Ask yourself, what do I think most people want?

Your question seems fair altho you took a shot at me about learning/adapting to others behavior. I am 67 years old, gamer since 1976, ex Navy vet, steelworker, trucker and former (retired) game designer for TSR and Pacesetter games with published credits. So I have a right to believe I have learned and adapted to others behavior over the years. Now as to your straightforward question about what most people want - they want to play in a video game genre that interests them and HAVE FUN. I am concerned about people who will get discouraged and leave as well as elite skill players being insufficient to maintain this game. I want both types to stay and enjoy (have fun) and myself as well. Like I am doing and as I stated in my original post, I am waiting to see how it is developing. I have spent real money already in open beta to support PGI and hope to do so more in the future. I want to have fun too.

[Broceratops]

Heffay, on 14 January 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

There is a huge range of skill levels. Learning what works at one level gets you to the next level. It's not like you have noobs vs pros, and you can't get to pro by fighting noobs.

Playing against better players is not the only way to get better.

Totally. Also right now I'd argue that in a lot of cases it's not being better players that win the day, but rather being in a group on TS, thus guaranteeing that 4 spots on your team are not filled with total baddies winning the day.

It's okay people. You will still have fun winning 50% of the time. Maybe more fun because it won't feel like a slaughter 80% of the time.

[Heffay]

Xigunder Blue, on 14 January 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

I want both types to stay and enjoy (have fun) and myself as well.

How will having a ranking system hurt the game? It only helped every other game out there that has implemented it. Why is MWO going to be the special snowflake that somehow gets ruined by this?

[Canis Arctos]

Xigunder Blue, on 14 January 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

I just want to comment on the 'learn/adapt or die' statement. Learn/adapt or put my money elsewhere is the actual fact of the matter. Ask PGI employees who want to keep their jobs. Not a shot at you, just a fact.

So you are saying : "nerf the stuff who kills me or i don´t give you my money ?"

Official statement from every gouverment of the world :
"we don't negotiate with terrorist"

It is nothing personal but aslong everyone can use every mech / weapon he wants to. There is no "unfair" gameplay.
I have seen it in every game i did ever play ( online ) there are always weapons or platforms ( call it character or mech ) who are "better" as others. You can not make a game or a match totaly balanced.
If that would be the case + ELO ranking + map the pure luck would decide who will win a match.
Everyone would be the same at every map at every time all over the world.

That is not a game that would be boring.
The challange is to find a counter vs your enemy setup ( pug or CW ). Either with skill or with a better setup or even both.


edit : if you want to stick with your own mind and your mech you "love" okay... you have to be so good that you can compete or simple life with the fact that you always have a downside and maybe lose ( if your mech setup or w/e is not so good but you play it because you want )

Edited by Canis Arctos, 14 January 2013 - 06:53 AM.

[Tykelau]

Xigunder Blue, on 14 January 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

Your question seems fair altho you took a shot at me about learning/adapting to others behavior. I am 67 years old, gamer since 1976, ex Navy vet, steelworker, trucker and former (retired) game designer for TSR and Pacesetter games with published credits. So I have a right to believe I have learned and adapted to others behavior over the years. Now as to your straightforward question about what most people want - they want to play in a video game genre that interests them and HAVE FUN. I am concerned about people who will get discouraged and leave as well as elite skill players being insufficient to maintain this game. I want both types to stay and enjoy (have fun) and myself as well. Like I am doing and as I stated in my original post, I am waiting to see how it is developing. I have spent real money already in open beta to support PGI and hope to do so more in the future. I want to have fun too.

Good point, and you are right about the jab. I even toned it down from what I had first wrote. I just got annoyed when I started thinking back to my competitive CS 1.6 days. Playing competitive matches at events was fun, since everyone there took the game very seriously and was usually upper tier skill levels. Pugs however, were such a mixed bag. So many times all the good players would be on one team, and even if I did kill 50% of the team myself, sometimes not one player on my team would get a kill. Once in a while it would be ok, but it became the norm. Sorry about the jab.

I just think that ELO will make this happen less often and maybe go a long way to making the average casual have a less frustrating experience. I guess I think that it's a good answer to the question "What would make the game more fun for the casual and new player, so they are more likely to stay?".

And the 1st thing that comes to mind is not getting stomped as much. That said, you have my respect for keeping your cool, among other things.

[Chavette]

wats a constitutition