99 replies to this topic

[o0Marduk0o]

Lagshield makes direct fire weapons less effective against any fast mech and lock-on weapons complete worthless in close range against ECM, where you can't use TAG. The balance may shift when they improve netcode.
Right now, it's pretty clear the ECM is overpowered when you look at the most played light mech - Raven 3L.
When one mech is used much more than others, then something is wrong.

[Taizan]

First Netcode has to be fixed to take out the "Lagshield" part of "ECM is OP". Its a pita to take down a 3ML/C-2D for me (Ping often is is in the range of 150 at best going up to 450+.

Of course I can lagshoot / lead etc. but in the same time I can do better and more damage to slower targets that are not warping back and forth that extreme.

We have 4 ECM mechs, but no one is complaining about Cicada's (least played mech chassis anyway) or Atlas' ECM because we can all take them out without any issues. Its the small guys that sometimes seem impossible to hit, get a huge damage spread or sometimes damage doesn't even register at all.

Imo as soon as the main issues with hit detection correlated to netcode is improved, ECM will become a little less "OP", even though its still cancelling out too much other mechanics.

[Vassago Rain]

Taizan, on 15 January 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

First Netcode has to be fixed to take out the "Lagshield" part of "ECM is OP". Its a pita to take down a 3ML/C-2D for me (Ping often is is in the range of 150 at best going up to 450+.

Of course I can lagshoot / lead etc. but in the same time I can do better and more damage to slower targets that are not warping back and forth that extreme.

We have 4 ECM mechs, but no one is complaining about Cicada's (least played mech chassis anyway) or Atlas' ECM because we can all take them out without any issues. Its the small guys that sometimes seem impossible to hit, get a huge damage spread or sometimes damage doesn't even register at all.

Imo as soon as the main issues with hit detection correlated to netcode is improved, ECM will become a little less "OP", even though its still cancelling out too much other mechanics.

I like that it's only the elite clan people who have any real complaints on ECM. The 'casuals.' as they are called, all go 'ECM? Oh, I'll just use my lasers, then.'

[Zero Neutral]

MasterGoa, on 14 January 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

Again, game with two 3l's and 2 DDC's...

They just creep up and cancel all your weapons.

I have no idea why this turned into the fallacy that it is now.
The rules were written a long time ago...

Will try new patch for a couple of games, but if there is no change to ECM
or how BAP IS SUPPOSED to help with it, I will spend my time doing something else.

Cheers and have a good night.

Can I buy the ECM that cancels all weapons? That's a good ECM... Is that a GXP unlock?

JK.

But seriously, ECM does not stop dual AC/20, quad PPC, 6 Large Lasers, 6 SRM 6, Dual UAC/5 and Dual AC/2... I use each of these builds and more... ECM does not affect me. ECM only bothers me when I am using my LRM boat Stalker. Even then, I still have TAG in order to make sure that I can alpha my 50 LRM whenever possible.

[Zero Neutral]

Ilwrath, on 15 January 2013 - 01:50 AM, said:

When you have ravens running straight at you, not moving sideways at all, and you aim right at it (not at its feet) and neither the paperdoll or your aim turns red. Well then something is ****** and it is not knowledge about how to shoot.

This does not happen with any other mechs. Someone running to you in a straight line will get hit. The raven is broken beyond the lag-shield. They should just remove it if they cannot fix it.

Hopefully they have done something about it in the upcoming patch.

The, 'lag-shield,' you have described is a known issue... except to you apparently.

[Zero Neutral]

HighlandCoo, on 14 January 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

Alot of the complaints about ECM and streaks are actually complaints about lag shield.

I personally feel like disconnecting when Im getting orbited by a ECM commando with streaks that I Just. Cannot. Hit.

Yeah we all try to lead the target for lagshield, but no one can seriously be suggesting that this is 100% working as intended.

Please find one post on these forums with someone saying, "Yeh, this lagshield is working as intended." Of course no one is suggesting that.

[King Arthur IV]

increase ecm slots to 10 , then i have higher crit chance to get rid of it in a few shots.
or
ecm causes heat to the point of over heating.

[Zero Neutral]

PANZERBUNNY, on 14 January 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

BAHAHA name one time...

That's rich.

The entire way ECM works is a disaster and the longer they cling to it, the longer the game bleeds out.

They decided to make ECM a hammer instead of a support tech. Something that is good when used properly.

Right now it's a holynewbgrail of getting kills instead of a niche piece of tech that needs some finesse to use properly with your team, not this license to kill....with perks....at a killer discount rate in tonnage.

Who is the newb? *holds up mirror to you.*

ECM does not get kills. Sorry bruh, nice try tho, not really tho.

Edited by Zero Neutral, 15 January 2013 - 04:24 AM.

[Horned Bull]

MasterGoa, on 14 January 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

Again, game with two 3l's and 2 DDC's...

They just creep up and cancel all your weapons.

I have no idea why this turned into the fallacy that it is now.
The rules were written a long time ago...

Will try new patch for a couple of games, but if there is no change to ECM
or how BAP IS SUPPOSED to help with it, I will spend my time doing something else.

Cheers and have a good night.

This is what you get for playing a streakcat. Serves you right. Did you even think how many times you ruined other players fun?

[Zero Neutral]

Taizan, on 15 January 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

First Netcode has to be fixed to take out the "Lagshield" part of "ECM is OP". Its a pita to take down a 3ML/C-2D for me (Ping often is is in the range of 150 at best going up to 450+.

Of course I can lagshoot / lead etc. but in the same time I can do better and more damage to slower targets that are not warping back and forth that extreme.

We have 4 ECM mechs, but no one is complaining about Cicada's (least played mech chassis anyway) or Atlas' ECM because we can all take them out without any issues. Its the small guys that sometimes seem impossible to hit, get a huge damage spread or sometimes damage doesn't even register at all.

Imo as soon as the main issues with hit detection correlated to netcode is improved, ECM will become a little less "OP", even though its still cancelling out too much other mechanics.

I really have to hand it to the community moderators for really spotting how things actually are.

Are you a player that hates ECM? Then ask yourself this, what mech specifically do you hate with ECM? The answer is probably the Raven and you hate it because you can't hit it. You can't hit it because of the lag shield... You try to fire SSRM or LRM at it, but it has ECM. Now you are mad cus, "ZOMG ECM OP," or, "ZOMG LAG SHIELD OP." (Sound like many posts on this forum much?)

How can ECM be balanced while the lag shield exists? The lag shield is creating a facade of overpoweredness for ECM thanks to the speedy Raven-3L.

Really good catch on this mod's part.

Edited by Zero Neutral, 15 January 2013 - 04:29 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Zero Neutral, on 15 January 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

Who is the newb? *holds up mirror to you.*

ECM does not get kills. Sorry bruh, nice try tho, not really tho.

The ECM itself does not get the Kill. But Ravens with ECM and Lag shield are Nie invincible unless you are just as fast and lagged. Guardian ECM is doing the work of its Big brother. And it is even doing it better that Angel. Our present ECM should not be Blocking SSRMs That is Angel's job. And even then Angel ECM only turns SSRMs into Standard ECM. I am all for this being corrected. And No I don't use SSRMs.

[Leimrey]

Oh no, you have to use direct fire weapons instead of abusing streaks and LRMs and rely on visual target acquisition instead of shooting in the general direction of red squares and triangles. The horror.

Personally, the game didn't change one bit for me since I play direct fire mechs only and loathe both LRMs and streaks. If you want to use these weapons, bring your own ECM heavy team or learn how to tag properly for yourself, if you're a LRM boat. I've seen tag being used to devastating effect against ECM heavy teams in many matches.

Regarding Raven 3Ls and streakmandos: the problem with them is not related to ECM per se, these mechs are "overpowered" because of the horrible netcode. If the netcode gets fixed (which will probably never happen, because PGi is pretty much incompetent at everything it does), all light mechs will become deathtraps and they WILL need ECM to be at least semi viable, since their survivability will become zero-ish. If it makes you feel better, I think lights should not be allowed to mount ECM until PGI fixes the netcode, but once it gets fixed, they should get their ECM back.

[Joseph Mallan]

Leimrey, on 15 January 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

Personally, the game didn't change one bit for me since I play direct fire mechs only and loathe both LRMs and streaks. If you want to use these weapons, bring your own ECM heavy team or learn how to tag properly for yourself, if you're a LRM boat. I've seen tag being used to devastating effect against ECM heavy teams in many matches.

Well if you are playing as a team, you should sacrifice one medium laser so you can TAG for your Missile carrying friends. Remember this is a team game, You will be getting XP for TAGging now, fighting as a team is totally OP, You get the idea!

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

Well if you are playing as a team, you should sacrifice one medium laser so you can TAG for your Missile carrying friends. Remember this is a team game, You will be getting XP for TAGging now, fighting as a team is totally OP, You get the idea!

We don't have any missile carrying mechs, as said missiles are a bad idea, and were making the game quite, quite unfun during the trenching days.

Literally, Kong has 0 mechs that carry LRMs. There's not a single one.

[Joseph Mallan]

Did I quote you Vass? No? Ok Move along sir.

[LLCWeekend]

ECM is considered OP because of its blanket effect. Change it to operate like its supposed to (in TT).

[Kiltak]

Just reinstate Mech Knockdowns, that would solve most of my problems with light mechs.

[Vassago Rain]

Kiltak, on 15 January 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

Just reinstate Mech Knockdowns, that would solve most of my problems with light mechs.

Knockdowns were broken.
4 against 5 always meant the 5 would win. Rush one mech in, knock a guy over for ten seconds, and have everybody shoot him to death. Repeat as necessary.

[Zero Neutral]

Vassago Rain, on 15 January 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

We don't have any missile carrying mechs, as said missiles are a bad idea, and were making the game quite, quite unfun during the trenching days.

Literally, Kong has 0 mechs that carry LRMs. There's not a single one.

Um, LRM do huge damage... learn to LRM.

[Vassago Rain]

Zero Neutral, on 15 January 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

Um, LRM do huge damage... learn to LRM.

18 tubes of SRMs to your face do even more damage.