208 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Serapth, on 15 January 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

You are an elite founder with 5500 posts...

I don't exactly get how you consider yourself a new user. You certainly aren't the demographic we are discussing here.

My post count does not indicate whether I have played MMOs before or not. This is my only MMO MORPG or any other type of On line PvP game. That is how I consider myself a new Player. I think that is all that matters.

[Serapth]

Bguk, on 15 January 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

I've never seen this thread on the forums before. Not just new but refreshing as well!

Posting threads like these needs to stop until the planned fixes are in. Also, I will repeat this until they show the icon in game, there is no way to tell 100% of the time when you are facing a premade. Yes, premades happen. The overall percent of time they happen is unknown at this time due to lack of data.

I'm notice a theme, and your post illustrates it perfectly.

until the planned fixes are in
The overall percent of time they happen is unknown
there is no way to tell

That's why there are so many threads like this, and there will continue to be more threads like this. People dont know what developers are working on, have no clue what is in todays patch even, how often it is premades vs boogiemen, whats on the roadmap for implementation ( other than extremely vague concepts ).

A little developer interaction, a little more transparency and the community wouldn't be creating these posts all the time.

But the resounding echo of silence... not reassuring.

[Abivard]

until there is a player ranking system, having a solo only match system will just favor 'newbie campers' who want that match making form now for that reason.

Half of you whine like the game is finished and they made mistakes that only you can see and fix.

And for some of you there is nothing anyone can do that will help improve your lack of skill.

The game isn't broke, its the gamer.

[Serapth]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

My post count does not indicate whether I have played MMOs before or not. This is my only MMO MORPG or any other type of On line PvP game. That is how I consider myself a new Player. I think that is all that matters.

No, in this conversation it doesn't. Its about tolerances for bad experience.

Theres the thing, your prior MMO experience or lack there of means nothing. You obviously have a vested interest in BT, enough to outlay a large amount of money up front. You obviously have a vested interest in the game, or you wouldn't make 5500 posts.

See, we founders are the wrong demographic to look at when it comes to the game experience, especially for new players. We love Battletech and will put up with untold misery to play it. A new player, with no prior MW experience who thought the game looked cool in a banner add, they are so vastly different then you or I. And they are the ones PGI are alienating by allowing them to stomped, giving them horrid mechs and massive disadvantages.

Besides, for this game I would consider a new player, not someone without prior MMO experience ( after all, this game and DDO or WoW have NOTHING in common ), but with no prior Battletech experience, be it MM:LL, MW4 or hell, even Chromehounds.

Abivard, on 15 January 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

until there is a player ranking system, having a solo only match system will just favor 'newbie campers' who want that match making form now for that reason.

Half of you whine like the game is finished and they made mistakes that only you can see and fix.

And for some of you there is nothing anyone can do that will help improve your lack of skill.

The game isn't broke, its the gamer.

So basically, l2p. Nice. Never heard that one.

Game is broke, completely unbalance, and most of it could be fixed as simply as putting a premade team on each side. Done.

[Ilwrath]

Bguk, on 15 January 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

I will repeat this until they show the icon in game, there is no way to tell 100% of the time when you are facing a premade. Yes, premades happen. The overall percent of time they happen is unknown at this time due to lack of data.

You can tell with ease if your team got zero jamming while the enemy team got several. This happens often.

The reason why they hide premade info is the same as why they hide population info. But today is patch day so lets see what happens. It would be nice if Phase 3 works somehow but it is okay if it does not either. It is getting old with the same old maps again and again and again and again. Maybe time to check out how WoT is doing.

[Exoth3rmic]

Serapth, on 15 January 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

No, in this conversation it doesn't. Its about tolerances for bad experience.

I'll use this quote instead of the one you used vs my original reply.

Do not misunderstand - my post has nothing to do with how I play, or how you play, its the simple fact that you will have premades drop on your team - if you're still struggling even in that instance then the problem is unlikely to be the presense of premades per se.

This is logic.

[Ilwrath]

Exoth3rmic, on 15 January 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

I'll use this quote instead of the one you used vs my original reply.

Do not misunderstand - my post has nothing to do with how I play, or how you play, its the simple fact that you will have premades drop on your team - if you're still struggling even in that instance then the problem is unlikely to be the presense of premades per se.

This is logic.

Yes you will have premades mixed with pugs but I think its more often with premades + premade/pugs against pure pugs. But we cannot really say because that info is hidden. Hidden for a reason. Unlike other successful games like WoT that don't hide it at all.

Edited by Ilwrath, 15 January 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[Abivard]

lol, ok, the point we are trying to get across is use some brainpower, don't assume everyone is an ***** and only you can see the light. It doesn't take much effort to find where the developers post whats going on, or what they intend in the future.

The problem is lazy people, people who don't read, don't think and don't try to learn. They want everything this instant and they want their hands held the entire way to boot!

Whiners will always exist they will always find something to whine about, they will always blame anything and anyone but themselves. PGI could post every stray thought they had about this game and the forms would still be full of these posts.

Stop trying to justify yourselves, it is really pathetic.

[Exoth3rmic]

Ilwrath, on 15 January 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

Yes you will have premades mixed with pugs but I think its more often with premades + premade/pugs against pure pugs. .

Agreed.

We're only really 2 patches in (3 after today) since any real changes released on the premade front and with the minimal game modes on offer its not worth getting overly hot under the collar about what is a perceived rather than statistically visible issue.

[Bguk]

Ilwrath, on 15 January 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

Yes you will have premades mixed with pugs but I think its more often with premades + premade/pugs against pure pugs. But we cannot really say because that info is hidden. Hidden for a reason. Unlike other successful games like WoT that don't hide it at all.

It's hidden because the game is a work in progress. WoT didn't show platoon mates at one time as well. And you should have seen the screams about the initial mm. Actually, if you read these forums that shows you pretty much how that went as well.

[Ilwrath]

Abivard, on 15 January 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

The problem is lazy people, people who don't read, don't think and don't try to learn. They want everything this instant and they want their hands held the entire way to boot!

Want stuff instantly, need to have their hands held.

That sounds like a premade to me. Are you unable to stand alone? Will you fall down the instant you are not carried? Was the 8 man que too hard?

You may be one of those that do run 8 man so I am talking in general

Edited by Ilwrath, 15 January 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[Carnivoris]

I've lost in a premade a couple times but, yeah, the GREAT majority of premade teams I get in win everything and have no issues with it. I was in some games last night using the WORST strategy I've ever seen. We demolished everything in our path. It was bad. I even have video of it. I just don't know if I want to release it for fear that it will prompt calls of NERF EVERYTHING!

I don't think it would be as big a deal to let teams of 4 play... if we had 12v12 matches. As it is, a 4 man wins the game every time... unless there's a 4 man team on the other side.

[Ilwrath]

Bguk, on 15 January 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

WoT didn't show platoon mates at one time as well. And you should have seen the screams about the initial mm. Actually, if you read these forums that shows you pretty much how that went as well.

That must have been rather early WoT, like early in closed beta early. About the mm; that was always pretty bad in WoT. The tiering would screw some tiers badly. That and some of the worst maps in gaming history... I think Komarin/swamp or wtf it was called actually got removed in the end.

And still it was okay. It never felt unfair. That is important.

[Serapth]

I love how the premade crowd yells so loudly to l2p, while the 8man drops queues empty. With the self defeating argument that it takes forever to play a match because nobody is 8man. Perhaps the wrong group needs to l2p.


At the end of the day though, simply put a damned premade on each side of the match. That is the sane, obvious and easy choice and settles 90% of problems, whether you acknowledge them or not.

[Bguk]

Serapth, on 15 January 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

I love how the premade crowd yells so loudly to l2p, while the 8man drops queues empty. With the self defeating argument that it takes forever to play a match because nobody is 8man. Perhaps the wrong group needs to l2p.

At the end of the day though, simply put a damned premade on each side of the match. That is the sane, obvious and easy choice and settles 90% of problems, whether you acknowledge them or not.

Who exactly are the 8 man crowd?

They need to do that, once the next phase is implemented. Let's hope they include something like that in their matchmaking. I think all sides could agree at least on that?

[Armorpiercer M82]

i realy dont understand how can someone defend current MM with pugs only, vs premades as ok. The only reason that gives sense, is, it came from some premade stomping pugs. Or what is the reason to defend stronger against weaker ?

i dont get it

ah, maybe they fear to face other premades, cause then they could be meltdown. but pug stomping, non organized units, is ok, from 4 men voice communicated team right ?

ok , i loled hard to you.

Edited by Armorpiercer M82, 15 January 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[Ilwrath]

Bguk, on 15 January 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

Who exactly are the 8 man crowd?

They need to do that, once the next phase is implemented. Let's hope they include something like that in their matchmaking. I think all sides could agree at least on that?

Sadly I think we can all agree that this community is filled with trash people in premades. I call them trash because they have ruined 8 mans by taking min-maxing to the extreme. The devs have to fix this. They can do it by implementing restrictions about what you can roll with.

Or they can chose to do nothing and let the community fix it themselves. That will probably work GREAT! and bring the population to new and amazing heights.

Edited by Ilwrath, 15 January 2013 - 08:04 AM.

[Abivard]

I play solo in pugs, I play 4 man pugs that are shared TS only, never met them before, I play with my unit in 4 mans, I try to play 8 mans as often as I can, but that is tedious to set up, time consuming with plenty of failed matches and waiting around for everyone to ready up, someone will always have to go and then there goes the 8 man!

But the trolls are all well aware of all those factors in general, they just like to pretend they don't know it to make their case sound better.

I would really like to see better matchmaking sooner, but I would rather they take the time to do it right rather than pander to the instant gratification crowd that camps these forms constantly with some rushed botched system that will lead to more whines and complaints.

Why can't we have groups larger than 4 and less than 8? maybe because PGI needs to test things, that is why it's called beta.

Now go ahead and post some flippant nonsense in reply using double-speak.

[Serapth]

Ilwrath, on 15 January 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

Sadly I think we can all agree that this community is filled with trash people in premades. I call them trash because they have ruined 8 mans by taking min-maxing to the extreme. The devs have to fix this. They can do it by implementing restrictions about what you can roll with.

Or they can chose to do nothing and let the community fix it themselves. That will probably work GREAT! and bring the population to new and amazing heights.

The secondary problem is, many of the people fleeing the min/maxers, that hate always running against 4xD-DC, 4x 3ls in 8man, drop down and run the same #@$@ing cheese builds against pugs.

[Kell Draygo]

Abivard, on 15 January 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

The game isn't broke, its the gamer.

Not sure if you are saying this with a straight face or not. When a game is missing or has bugged core elements to any successful game, then it is broken. Don't try to sugar coat it so that the developers feel better. They ****** up and they know it. Now it's just how much longer until they fix this game without screwing it up more. ECM was just a terrible step in the wrong direction to show that they lack the experience of balancing a game which is why so many people are pissed and so many of these posts are made.

People are worried, and they have a right to be with the path this game took in terms of development so far. Starting from Closed Beta.