233 replies to this topic

[PANZERBUNNY]

Anyone advocating that ecm is okay and that making so many mech variants and chassis obsolete is "okay", is an *****.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

PANZERBUNNY, on 15 January 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Anyone advocating that ecm is okay and that making so many mech variants and chassis obsolete is "okay", is an *****.

yea so many choises for 8-man drops.FOTM mech #1 raven-3L and #2 Atlas-D-DC.If you have another mech then your team lacks...

[GrabbleRus]

To those wondering what's going on in the game right now:


The same, but they're much more spiders )))

[Solis Obscuri]

Serapth, on 15 January 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

Havent you noticed from the Likes, that it basically boils down to about 6 people in total that support ECM? I mean, I watch thread after thread and it is always the same half dozen people, over and over. The pro-ECM faction seems to be minuscule.

Here's an interesting thing to note - if you listen to last weeks NGNG Podcast (#56 I think, around the 6 or 7 minute mark) Garth comes in for an interview. He begins talking about how he surveys for data and it goes something like:

"Well, so first I go talk to the best, most successful 8-man groups, and get their feedback on balance and where things are, then to the average 8-man premades who are good, but don't win quite so much, then I also go look on the forums and try to take into account what they're saying there."

Soooo... if Somebody running 8-man premades is spamming a lot of D-DC and 3L heavy groups and winning a lot, are they going to be saying "yeah, this totally pads our stats and makes us look better than we are" or are they going to say "yeah, we're really really skilled players who know what we're doing, this stuff's fine, don't nerf it"? How many 8-man drops are typically running without at least 2 ECMs, much less doing it consistently and winning consistently? I'm guessing not a lot.

Then you go look at the forums and it's a snake pit and people are arguing up one side and down the other of every topic possible, so that doesn't sway much either way unless people go into a panic over something (like the idea of the JR7-D getting ECM, which should have been one of the first signs that ECM was severely unbalanced), so from there you get a "meh, it's probably fine if some people like it and some don't."

So PGI isn't really looking at ECM on a 1:1 comparison with other equipment the way they looked a Gauss Rifles and Medium Lasers and Double Heat Sinks and SRMs and Large Lasers, etc., they're looking at it in the context of "is it so absurdly strong that 8 players in an organized premade drop can't counter it at all?" Which is a drastically different reality. They could've made the Gauss Rifle a one-ton one-crit weapon that did 70 damage out to 1000m with 100 rounds per ton of ammo, and given the CPLT-K2 12 ballistic slots in each side torso, and decent 8-man premades would have figured out some way to combat it. But that wouldn't have made it remotely balanced with the other weapon and tech.

Edited by Solis Obscuri, 15 January 2013 - 01:28 PM.

[Codejack]

In that NGNG, Garth even admitted that almost half of the mechs used in 8-mans are ECM mechs. That's not broken?!

[Jason1138]

KuruptU4Fun, on 15 January 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

In reading every post in this thread I continue to see so many people who have been dissapointed with this game for months. If that's the case then nothing PGI can do or has done will satisfy you. Since your satisfaction will never be sated, maybe it's time for you to move on to something else. Seriously, give it some thought. You can obviously read the patch notes PGI gives out here and via email. Use them as a gauge as to when you'd like to return if at all.

the only problem with that idea is that i've already paid PGI $120.

as far as "there's nothing they can do to satisfy you", i'm easily satisfied. Fix PPCs, stop releasing worthless lights until the netcode is fixed, and add more maps immediately, and i'm happy.

this horsecrap about "oh don't worry guys, big patch coming" and then us getting a mech that we've known for months was going to be worthless without major changes to netcode and JJ's is just dumb.

PGI is clearly just not going to deliver extra game modes or maps, and IS going to continue to deliver at least 1 hero mech with every patch, as well as other premium content every patch. Cash grab is all this game is now and some of you guys can't or won't see it

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Kristov Kerensky, on 15 January 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

Haven't you noticed that the number of people constantly complaining about ECM are also about 6 people? ECM has counters besides more ECM, you folks NOT using those is your own fault.

Just exited a drop, enemy had 4 ECM, my side had 0..guess who won? We did, lost 0 players on our side on top of that. Pure PUG drop as well, so it wasn't coordinated voip players who simply overwhelmed the poor PUGs with 4 matching Raven 3Ls(same Phraken paint..we've all seen that group haven't we). ECM isn't any where near as powerful as some of you make out, you just haven't figured out that you don't HAVE to use SSRMs to kill everything. Hells, had someone take out my Spider 5D(ECM version) with an AC20 while I was hauling at 130+kph AND 2x the height of an Atlas in the air! SOME of us can aim and hit our targets without using lockon weaponary. Try it sometime, it's not that hard to do.

So how about the 100 Likes in the Q/A thread for Tolkien's post? Or the 250 before that? Or the whatever before that? It's not like there are THAT many people playing this game, ontop of that I'd imagine there are even less posting on the boards, so when you have 250 people concerned about ECM, it seems like the devs should probably take note.

You really sound dumb when I read these threads and you talk about 6 people disliking ECM. Might want to rethink your logic. I don't think you mean to come across that way.

[Serapth]

Solis Obscuri, on 15 January 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

"Well, so first I go talk to the best, most successful 8-man groups, and get their feedback on balance and where things are, then to the average 8-man premades who are good, but don't win quite so much, then I also go look on the forums and try to take into account what they're saying there."

Please tell me this is hyperbole and he didn't actually say that? I mean, sure if he did infact say something that stupid it would go a long way towards explaining the MWO experience, but would also clearly show there is a lunatic at the helm.

That is HORRIFIC game design... that's exactly the demographic they shouldn't be listening to, if they want to make a game with mass appeal.


If 8man groups have this much say, why are 8man queues so completely empty?

Edited by Serapth, 15 January 2013 - 01:40 PM.

[Codejack]

Serapth, on 15 January 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Please tell me this is hyperbole and he didn't actually say that? I mean, sure if he did infact say something that stupid it would go a long way towards explaining the MWO experience, but would also clearly show there is a lunatic at the helm.

That is HORRIFIC game design... that's exactly the demographic they shouldn't be listening to, if they want to make a game with mass appeal.


If 8man goups have this much say, why are 8man queues so completely empty?

Yep, but it explains most of the problems, don't it?

[Serapth]

Codejack, on 15 January 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Yep, but it explains most of the problems, don't it?

If it is actually true, and those words were actually said ( in context and not as a laugh ), this is a man that should be sacked. If you let the power gamers shape the game, it is beyond doomed. It will be forever niche, if it makes it that far.


Even worse, if the power gamers are the core audience, this game is missing heavily on that front too...


But yes, franlky, it would explain pretty much every problem. If they are playbalancing from only the perspective of 8man drops, a group that barely play from what I hear, uhoh.

Edited by Serapth, 15 January 2013 - 01:44 PM.

[Nick Drezary]

So... they added ssrm to counter light's, then they added ECM, so now only light mech's can safely use ssrm(istead of counter it became great weapon for the lights) AND ECM made light mechs almost invulnerable to the LRM (don't tell me about TAG, its obviously against any mechs, but light's) Now they add module "for LRM mech's", that should in some way help them? 3.5 seconds more until target is lost, and no one give a crap, that LRM can't even capture ECM mech without someone's help...
and they added module that increase range, from what ECM can be spotted and it increase on 50!!!!!! meters? Are they bucking kidding? LRM guy have to farm tonn's of gxp(25000 I guess) and pay 8 million c-bills just to get miserable impruvement against (very very bad peson) that payed no gxp and 400 thousand's c-bills? This is not even funny at all. So... Poor poor poor poor LRM boats (I don't even speak about tactical possibilities and manuvers that ECM provides )
And where the hell is patch? It's more look like making fun of the players who waited for the patch for almost a month!

[Andrew Cranston]

Serapth, on 15 January 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Please tell me this is hyperbole and he didn't actually say that? I mean, sure if he did infact say something that stupid it would go a long way towards explaining the MWO experience, but would also clearly show there is a lunatic at the helm.

That is HORRIFIC game design... that's exactly the demographic they shouldn't be listening to, if they want to make a game with mass appeal.


If 8man groups have this much say, why are 8man queues so completely empty?

I don't see a lot of the "best 8 man team" players talking about ECM or complaining about it bitterly on forums. Their main focus is on having some form of game lobby/way to set up their own matches for things like RHOD and scrims. They're mostly fine with creating their own balance. It's lack of being able to do that that has led to the drastic fall off in 8 mans, not the introduction of ECM. There is no 5/0/0/3 or 6/0/0/2 setup in RHOD.

[Lonestar1771]

Serapth, on 15 January 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Please tell me this is hyperbole and he didn't actually say that? I mean, sure if he did infact say something that stupid it would go a long way towards explaining the MWO experience, but would also clearly show there is a lunatic at the helm.

That is HORRIFIC game design... that's exactly the demographic they shouldn't be listening to, if they want to make a game with mass appeal.


If 8man groups have this much say, why are 8man queues so completely empty?

You assume somebody is actually driving the ship lol.

[NeImporte]

I bought the Founders Pack to support the developers and give them money to make a good game. I have not bought any hero mechs, and won't until they fix LL/PPC/etal heat, ECM, new maps, Matchmaking, end of game summary, upgrades that STAY bought, paint jobs that apply to more than 1 mech, all the things we've been asking for (and have been assured are coming).

Stop releasing things that you think are going to get you MC - we are slowly becoming too bitter to give you any more money. I was planning on spending the $15/month I *USED* to spend on WoW on this game, but you aren't getting another red cent out of me until this game improves VASTLY over it's current iteration.

I'll play this for free til the end of time just to waste your resources if you continue to screw me... *I SCREW BACK*.

You want my money? give me a decent game, and timely and relevant patches.

TLDR: no more $ from my pocket for you!

[Windies]

I don't know what else to say except this patch is the epitome of disappointment. Add in another light ECM mech when your playerbase is screaming about ECM being OP and lights being OP cause of the terrible netcode. Then make a statement that it will probably be even more broken than current light mechs, but add it anyways. The logical deficit right there is mind boggling.

I'm guessing it was because if they didn't throw the spider into this patch, it would look like another routine crappy filler patch.

[Lonestar1771]

Windies, on 15 January 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

I'm guessing it was because if they didn't throw the spider into this patch, it would look like another routine crappy filler patch.

Even with the Spider it still feels like a cheap filler patch. IGP must be backseat driving this ship all the way to the bottom.

[JSparrowist]

It's always nice when a developer studio seemingly holds their community in contempt.

PGI sucks.

[Skyfaller]

Quote

- Spider SDR-5D

- Tonnage: 30
- Top Speed: 129.6
- Jump Jets: 8 (8 Max)
- ECM Capable: Yes

This is merely proof of the incredible depths of IDIOCY that PGI wallows in as their standard operating procedure.

They know 90kph+ speeds is the cause of the netcode lagshield issue .. NOT player ping. Yet... here they are, adding yet another zippy fast and now bunny hop capable light mech with the ECM.

This game has no hope and no future.

[Ursh]

Thontor, on 15 January 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Read between the lines? Lol.. Yeah... Basically you can say anything means anything you want if you "read between the lines"

If you already believe that's how the devs feel, then when you "read between the lines" that is what you are going to interpret them as saying.



Its not that simple though... Any changes require lots of internal testing to make sure they do what they want them to do
I would even guess the changes have already gone through on builds of the game that are being internally tested right now.

They must have been play-testing spiders against other spiders or against hapless assault mechs.

Ran my 3L tonight in anticipation of a horde of ecm spiders flooding the pug matches.

Nope, just a flood of Raven 3Ls who were anticipating easy kills of fresh spiders. Guess what? We got 'em. Raven 3L smokes the spiders faster than a blunt at Snoop Dogg's house. My 3L doesn't even have elites, just basics finished, and it wasn't even a contest. Once again the only enemy light that was giving me issues were other 3Ls.

[SmackZ]

is it patch day or let down day, I forget which?